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RobbieD
New member
Hey wahts a good setting i should have for recording vocals for dance, i put delay on them and i want to have a nice clear powerful sound, so what should the threshold be and all that on my external compressor?
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Not again....
Read through one of several recent threads on compression in this same forum....you'll find your settings there.
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RobbieD
New member
Loooooooool
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
Basically, you wouldn't use a compressor on the way in. Soooo many reasons not to, no really valid reasons to do so (unless you're using a specific unit for its flavor - as opposed to for actual gain reduction).
In any case - Settings are dependent on what you have vs. what you want. The settings YOU need are the settings you need at any specific point.
In any case - Settings are dependent on what you have vs. what you want. The settings YOU need are the settings you need at any specific point.
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RobbieD
New member
so many reasons like?
mjbphotos
Moderator
If you compress your input while recording, you're stuck with what you've got. Record with no effects, then add to get the sound you want.
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Greg_L
Banned
Fuck, where do these people come from?
Massive Master
www.massivemastering.com
Let's not forget how easily it screws up gain staging if you don't know precisely what you're doing...
Bristol Posse
Okey Dokey
I'll agree with this to a point but would say even if you record with no effects, once you press record you are stuck with what you've got unless you are willing to retrack
If you take the time to learn your tracking compressor and, even more critically, don't press record until you have a clear vision of what the outcome you want is, there is no reason not to compress at the tracking stage. If you know what you are looking for, know how to get it with a tracking compressor and you like the vibe of your hardware why not
I'm working on a new track now and spent enough time working on mic position and setting up my tracking comp that I may end up using the scratch vocals on the finished songs because the mic/room position took care of almost all of the EQ needs and the tracking comp put the vocal right in the pocket in terms of evenness with just a little bit of mojo.
I suppose either way you go, HW comp on the way in or SW comp in the box, you need to spend an awful lot of time working with your compressors to truly understand what they do, how they do it and how you use it to your advantage or decide to leave it off on any type of vocal or instrument. I spent the last year running raw vocal tracks back through my HW compressor to really learn what it can do, how it breaks up, when it breaks up, what different attack and releases and ratios sound like so that I am pretty confident in my ability to get the sound I want at the time I record my vocals, but it took a year of messing around with the compressor (Well I did other stuff too it was more of a side project but you get the point)
once you've made all that effort you'll totally agree with Miroslav's facepalm at the unanswerable question in the OP
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arcadeko
Illuminatius Overlordious
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Right...no matter what you do or don't do during tracking...you're stuck with it.
I think where John is coming from about comps screwing things up during tracking, is mainly aimed at the newbs who tend to overuse just about everything when they are starting out (more = better)...so for them, keeping things simple is the smarter approach.
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RAMI
Guest
I don't know. What you guys are saying sounds good on paper, but isn't REALLY true.Right...no matter what you do or don't do during tracking...you're stuck with it.
You can't remove anything you've added to a recording, but you can add something you didn't track with. So, printing an effect is NOT the same as not printing an effect when you record.
Bristol Posse
Okey Dokey
Yes you are right, but at some point you have to make a decision about the final sound. Whether it be at the time you record or after thousands of hours of trying settings on the DAW. Now that I'm comfortable with tracking compression, I'm trying more and more to commit to my sound at the time I track it. Sure it imposes some limitations but it makes mixing much easier because you already have the end in mind.
I'm not saying its what everyone should be doing, and most certainly not if you don't know how to work a compressor or don't have a clear idea of what your target sound is. But if you have HW compressors and have taken the time to get to know them I simply present an alternate point of view that sometimes all that choice in the box with dry tracks can lead to analysis paralysis when it comes time to mix, and that tracking with FX isn't always bad or off limits provided you know at the outset that you're committing to that sound and can live with less choices ITB.
As always, YMMV
snow lizard
Dedicated Slacker
Assuming your external compressor even has a threshold and all that, the correct setting is the one that gives you the desired result.
The real trick is knowing what to desire.
There aren't any presets generic to your voice, mic, dynamic control, type of compressor or gain staging habits.
Threshold, input gain, output gain, ratio, attack, release, knee, gain reduction...
They all go together.
The best thing might be to play with the controls and listen to what happens. It'll help to check with the compressor in and out of the circuit to compare. At equal percieved volume levels.
Some people like to track with those things for various reasons, but it's by no means necessary and possibly not really desirable.
Once you start mixing and using compression globally on a specific bus, your goals and approach to compression in general might change a bit.
Compression and reverb are a bit like glue in that sense. And you can never have TOO much glue, right?
The only way to learn is to do it.
The real trick is knowing what to desire.
There aren't any presets generic to your voice, mic, dynamic control, type of compressor or gain staging habits.
Threshold, input gain, output gain, ratio, attack, release, knee, gain reduction...
They all go together.
The best thing might be to play with the controls and listen to what happens. It'll help to check with the compressor in and out of the circuit to compare. At equal percieved volume levels.
Some people like to track with those things for various reasons, but it's by no means necessary and possibly not really desirable.
Once you start mixing and using compression globally on a specific bus, your goals and approach to compression in general might change a bit.
Compression and reverb are a bit like glue in that sense. And you can never have TOO much glue, right?
The only way to learn is to do it.
miroslav
Cosmic Cowboy
Right...that was the essence of what you said earlier and what I agreed with.
The minute you hit record...whatever is going down...it's going down.
Sure, adding effects and compression and whatever, certainly locks an even more defined "sound" than just signl-to-mic...but even the most basic, simplistic setup still requires some kind of conscious decision about the sound you are recording.
The caveat here is that newbs are probably not ready to make conscious decisions about processing up front as they record...though I'll have to say, newb or vet...if you slap some XYZ processor on the signal going in and you LOVE the sound and are 100% certain that's what you want....go for it.
My view is that unless you are running a commercial studio where uncertainty and crazy experimentation isn't the best SOP...why the hell not try whatever you like? In my own studio, there were some songs where I tracked, edited and gotten to the mixing stage...only to decide that I really didn't like the tone of the guitar (or whatever)...and simply went back and re-recorded (even though I thought the tone was killer during initial tracking).
I mean...it's no big deal in most cases for home-rec musicians to go back and do something as many times as they like...IOW, you rarely *have to* get it right on the first pass....there's no clock or $$$ or clients involved.
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rfahey86
New member
Record raw. Experiment with compressing the vocals afterward. What I was taught when I first learned about compressors was to adjust the compression until you think it sounds right, then back it off and use 1/3 of that amount.
ido1957
9K Gold Member
So let's say the OP has a Universal Audio LA-610 MKII preamp or maybe an 6176 preamp. Both have built in compressors. So does he just bypass the compressor? Seems like a waste to build/sell those units with a compressor then. Many top rated studios use them - including the compressor section.
Sure you can record without any compression - but if he does, what settings should he use? A few years ago the RNP ? comp was tooted as the answer. Hardware - so not a plugin.
My advice is record with various settings until you find one (or more) that do the job you want. I use 4:1 , -28db Threshold, fast attack (10 ms) and medium release 350ms or so for my vocals. That may or may not work for the OP but it's a start to work with. Record sections of the same song with various settings and listen as they play back to see what you like. Post on one of these forums for advice too.
Sure you can record without any compression - but if he does, what settings should he use? A few years ago the RNP ? comp was tooted as the answer. Hardware - so not a plugin.
My advice is record with various settings until you find one (or more) that do the job you want. I use 4:1 , -28db Threshold, fast attack (10 ms) and medium release 350ms or so for my vocals. That may or may not work for the OP but it's a start to work with. Record sections of the same song with various settings and listen as they play back to see what you like. Post on one of these forums for advice too.
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WarmJetGuitar
New member
Whatever effect you're using it's likely to affect the way you sing or play - so actually hearing the effects while singing can improve your singing by boosting your confidence, so just mess around until you're happy with the sound.
Assuming you use hardware effects adding the compressor/whatever you desire in the first place will save you an AD/DA-conversion or if you're recording on tape it will save you from generation loss.
If you're in doubt you can also split the mono signal from your mic to a stereo track using a switched off delay pedal to make the split - one track completely dry, another track with the effects you want to use. It usually works for me if I'm in doubt exactly what effect I want for my voice.
Assuming you use hardware effects adding the compressor/whatever you desire in the first place will save you an AD/DA-conversion or if you're recording on tape it will save you from generation loss.
If you're in doubt you can also split the mono signal from your mic to a stereo track using a switched off delay pedal to make the split - one track completely dry, another track with the effects you want to use. It usually works for me if I'm in doubt exactly what effect I want for my voice.
bouldersoundguy
Well-known member
He could trade the LA-610 for a pair of Solo 610s giving him two channels and no compressor to screw up his recording. Top rated studios have top rated engineers who know what they're after and how to get it without wrecking a take.
ido1957
9K Gold Member
Sure but you get more than one take - you can play around try different settings and see what you like. It usually takes a few tries to get things right. Plus there's a whole community here for feedback (and lots of other sites) if you're looking for advice. You can also bypass the compressors on those units if you want to. It's not that hard to record with a compressor if you take some time to explore it's potential.
