Recording a Choir and 10 Piece Orchestra ORTF

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Papanate

Papanate

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I am Recording a Choir and 10 Piece Orchestra and have chosen the mic technique ORTF - but there is a challenge - i’m am 60 feet away - there is no option to put them close enough - I’m using AKG 214s - the Board is a A&H SQ7 - I have 4 Choir Mics hung over the choir - and the Strings on the right side are mic’d up - 1 Ribbon Mic on on the 2 Violins and 1 Ribbon Mic on the 2 Violas - Condensers on the Cello and Double Bass - additionally I have two SDC room mics to the far left and right of the room - The Brass is on the left - and the Conductor doesn’t want any mics on them (even to record).

I am curious - should I just use the ORTF setup or a blend of all the mics - keep in mind I will have no Rehearsal or time to judge the setup - If I can multitrack that’s easy - I could just record and be done with it - as of now I only have a two track record.

What say you guys?
 
Wow -what fun!
There should be an enormous amount of info online from mic makers and pros to get a bead on mic choices and positioning - it's been done so much already.
 
Wow -what fun!
There should be an enormous amount of info online from mic makers and pros to get a bead on mic choices and positioning - it's been done so much already.
I am not in need of mic positioning - they mics are where they are - this is a Church and things like the Choir mics are in place - the room mics as well.
I only have the Mics they have - there is no choice.

BTW The Ribbons are MXL R40s and the Condensers are TLM103s.
 
I am not in need of mic positioning - they mics are where they are - this is a Church and things like the Choir mics are in place - the room mics as well.
I only have the Mics they have - there is no choice.

BTW The Ribbons are MXL R40s and the Condensers are TLM103s.
Gotcha - well, you have good gear to work with. I'd just start recording and get a bead on the 'room' and how those strings sound when micked.
Phase will be an issue. Hopefully adequate gain won't be.
I'd love to hear your results and what you had to do to make it work.....
 
Sounds like you only have access to the church's mixer stereo outputs. Is there anyway you can come up with another interface to break out the individual mics before/after they go into the mixer so you can record them separately in your DAW?
 
Scrap the ORTF (or indeed any coincident or spaced pair). The distance means it will be a swampy mess and will lag at least 50ms behind the close mics. Time alignment will be a total impossibility. I suspect if those mics can be output separately in the SQ7 and recorded multi-track, but I don't know the way the SQ7 works - my Midas and Behringers can just have a macbook hung off them for recording. If the priority is neat visuals, then they don't really want the audio recording for anything important. Accept this, and do the best mix you can with what you have. I learned long ago that if the recording is sort of 'an extra' the effort you put in is rarely worth it.
 
Sounds like you only have access to the church's mixer stereo outputs. Is there anyway you can come up with another interface to break out the individual mics before/after they go into the mixer so you can record them separately in your DAW?
No I’m walking into the situation as it is - their Audio guy is sick and can’t do it.
 
Scrap the ORTF (or indeed any coincident or spaced pair). The distance means it will be a swampy mess and will lag at least 50ms behind the close mics.
The distance lag is 28.5 ms.


Time alignment will be a total impossibility. I suspect if those mics can be output separately in the SQ7 and recorded multi-track, but I don't know the way the SQ7 works - my Midas and Behringers can just have a macbook hung off them for recording. If the priority is neat visuals, then they don't really want the audio recording for anything important. Accept this, and do the best mix you can with what you have. I learned long ago that if the recording is sort of 'an extra' the effort you put in is rarely worth it.

I could us a Mac and Logic Pro - very easy to - USB out to USB in on the Mac - Set the channels up - and Go - you think scraping the ORTF? I won’t have a chance to listen to them before hand - so maybe just isolate them?
 
The distance lag is 28.5 ms.
Your calculation is off.... 60ft means 53mS delay at 68F through air.



If you can get the spot mic feeds, there's no harm in doing a separate recording using two mics, but it depends on the church. Old churches have a ton of reverb. Many modern churches are built with sound in mind.

You'll get a lot different results from these two buildings:
cathedral.webp
modern.webp
 
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Congrats! Cool gig...beyond my pay grade...

I posed your question to Gemini and this is what it came up with...For certain Gemini is not always right but I found it's response pretty cool for someone who has not dealt with such an involved set up..

What Gemini said....

At 60 feet away, a solo ORTF pair will likely sound very distant, "washy," and thin. In a church environment, that distance puts you well beyond the critical distance (the point where the room's reverb becomes louder than the direct sound of the instruments).

You should absolutely use a blend of all the mics. In 2026, with the processing power of an SQ7, you have the tools to make this "distant" ORTF pair work as a cohesive "glue" for your closer spot mics.

Here is the best way to manage this blend:

1. The Role of the ORTF (The "Master Glue")​

Since your AKG C214s are 60 feet back, they aren't going to give you "detail." Instead, they will provide the stereo image and the "bloom" of the room.

  • The Problem: Sound travels at roughly 1.1 feet per millisecond. At 60 feet, the sound hitting your ORTF pair will arrive about 53–55ms later than the sound hitting your choir and string mics.
  • The Fix: You must delay the spot mics (choir, strings, bass) to match the ORTF pair. If you don't, the close mics will sound "small" and disconnected from the space. On your SQ7, add a delay to your spot mic channels/groups until they phase-align with the distant 214s.

2. Managing the "Un-Mic'd" Brass​

This is your biggest challenge. Since the brass is on the left and has no mics, and your ORTF pair is 60 feet away, the brass might actually sound clearer in the distant 214s than anything else because brass is naturally directional and loud.

  • The Left/Right Balance: Your strings are mic'd on the right, but the brass is "naked" on the left. Use your far-left SDC room mic to help balance the "left" side of the image. Even if it's a room mic, it will pick up the brass's reflection off the left wall, helping to fill that hole in the soundstage.

3. Mixing Strategy on the SQ7​

I recommend creating three main groups (Stereo Groups) on your board:

  • Group 1: The Focus (Spots). This includes the hung choir mics, the ribbon mics on violins/violas, and the condensers on the low strings. This group provides the "definition."
  • Group 2: The Foundation (Low End). Keep the Cello and Double Bass condensers slightly more prominent here. This provides the "weight" that distant mics usually lose.
  • Group 3: The Space (ORTF & Room). This is your 214s and your far L/R SDCs.
The Blend: Start with Group 1. Get a clear, dry mix where you can hear the lyrics and the bow hair on the strings. Then, slowly bring up Group 3 (the ORTF pair) until the ensemble sounds like it's actually "in the church" rather than in a vacuum.

4. Special Note on the Ribbons​

Since you are using ribbons on the violins and violas, they will naturally be much darker than the AKG 214s.

  • Contrast: The 214s have a bright, modern "shimmer."
  • Action: You may need to use a high-shelf boost on the SQ7 for the ribbons, or a slight high-cut on the 214s, to make sure the strings don't sound like they are in a different room than the choir.

Verdict​

Don't rely on the ORTF alone. At 60 feet, it will be too "ghostly." Use the spot mics for the "meat" and the ORTF for the "vibe."

Since you're at an SQ7, are you recording the multi-track to a USB drive (SQ-Drive) or out to a DAW? This will determine how much of this "time alignment" you should do live versus in the mix.
 
How about sneaking in a Brass mic from the side, and low down maybe?
Micing from 60' away is going to capture a lot of 'room'.
 
Your calculation is off.... 60ft means 53mS delay at 68F through air.
My mistake I meant to write the distance lag is 28 meters - so even worse than I thought.


If you can get the spot mic feeds, there's no harm in doing a separate recording using two mics, but it depends on the church. Old churches have a ton of reverb. Many modern churches are built with sound in mind.
The room itself is pretty good - nice acoustics without a lot of reverb - but from where I am positioned there is enough reverb to make ORTF ineffective..
 
hmmmmm 300m/sec - 20m (60ft) from where he is? I guess he's able to put them closer then?
I typed the wrong thing - I meant to say the lag is 28 meteres - which as I said to @TalismanRich will make the ORTF ineffective.
I might use them as ambient mics - but I’m not sure how they would blend.
 
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