Chord Progression question???

[TelePaul]

Play the outro for any song and 9 times out of 10 the final resolving chord is the key.

That's the funnest part of any song...the satisying arpeggiated chord!

 

[dgatwood]

Puhleeze. Can anyone think of any example songs in a key where the root chord does not get played?

I wrote a song once in the key of G that didn't include a single G major chord in the root position until the last few bars... but I don't think that's what you meant....

 

[DonS]

There could be several possibilities going on harmonically but there isn't enough information as already established. Here is the simpleist way I know of how I would analyize it:

In order to establish a key for this progression, you have to listen to what root the music gravitates towards as home key. It isn't always which chord comes first that is important. Does the music call Am home or Eminor? G major is way out in left field. In all music of the past 500 years or so, this is usually established by a dominant to tonic harmonic progression. With the info provided this is minor.

E minor is the V chord of A natural min. thus establishing Am as the tonic, and A minor as everyone here knows is the relative minor chord (vi) to C major. CM is either a new tonality or depending on the melody and bass line an invervion of Am7. But to me A minor is clearly the established tonality.

Keep in mind that theory is ALWAYS subjective . . .


Em, Am, Am7/C
A min: v chord, i chord, i6/5 (1st inversion of minor 7th)

or w/ key change:
Em, Am, CM
Amin: v chord, i chord/vi in cmajor new key

 

[_john_]

#20:

Wrong !!! the 7th chord is a 1/2dim ....

Oops. Quite wrong, I agree, sorry. THe F key was not an option...must have been have asleep when I wrote that.

 

[EddieRay]

There could be several possibilities going on harmonically but there isn't enough information as already established. Here is the simpleist way I know of how I would analyize it:

In order to establish a key for this progression, you have to listen to what root the music gravitates towards as home key. It isn't always which chord comes first that is important. Does the music call Am home or Eminor? G major is way out in left field. In all music of the past 500 years or so, this is usually established by a dominant to tonic harmonic progression. With the info provided this is minor.

E minor is the V chord of A natural min. thus establishing Am as the tonic, and A minor as everyone here knows is the relative minor chord (vi) to C major. CM is either a new tonality or depending on the melody and bass line an invervion of Am7. But to me A minor is clearly the established tonality.

Keep in mind that theory is ALWAYS subjective . . .


Em, Am, Am7/C
A min: v chord, i chord, i6/5 (1st inversion of minor 7th)

or w/ key change:
Em, Am, CM
Amin: v chord, i chord/vi in cmajor new key

I'm glad to see someone else has the wits to declare a major key (C or G) out of bounds or too contrived, and that the "home" chord is a significant clue. The ONLY piece of information missing is what makes it feel resolved (goes home) at the end. As the OP stated, it fades out on Em, another significant clue. Of course, you have to know what "resolved" feels like. Otherwise, yeah, you'd need a lot more information, such as can be found in Music Theory 101.

But considering all the brain farts in this thread, Fb minor is clearly the key for the song in question because it is a somewhat flatulant key. As someone in some other thread pointed out, Fb Major is the most flatulant key of them all.

 

[DonS]

I stand corrected

zoinks . . . CM sub mediant acting in place of the dominant resolving to Em

Plus I went home and listened . . .

The key IS Fb MINOR!!!!

 

[Freddy]

So, are we now only debating how flatulent the song is?

Majorly faltulent or minorly flatulent?

 

[DonS]

YES!!!!

No . . . well . . . it's only flatulent in theory.

 

[famous beagle]

There could be several possibilities going on harmonically but there isn't enough information as already established. Here is the simpleist way I know of how I would analyize it:

In order to establish a key for this progression, you have to listen to what root the music gravitates towards as home key. It isn't always which chord comes first that is important. Does the music call Am home or Eminor? G major is way out in left field. In all music of the past 500 years or so, this is usually established by a dominant to tonic harmonic progression. With the info provided this is minor.

E minor is the V chord of A natural min. thus establishing Am as the tonic, and A minor as everyone here knows is the relative minor chord (vi) to C major. CM is either a new tonality or depending on the melody and bass line an invervion of Am7. But to me A minor is clearly the established tonality.

Keep in mind that theory is ALWAYS subjective . . .


Em, Am, Am7/C
A min: v chord, i chord, i6/5 (1st inversion of minor 7th)

or w/ key change:
Em, Am, CM
Amin: v chord, i chord/vi in cmajor new key

Actually, though, if it were in Am, then you'd more likely see an E major chord as the V chord. Even though Em is the diatonic chord in A minor, a minor v to a minor i chord is not a very strong resolution. So most composers (since before the Baroque era anyway) have been substituting E major to get a stronger resolution because of the leading tone created (in this case, changing Em to E major makes the note G a G#).

There are examples of songs in minor keys where minor v chords are used ("Staring at the Sun" is an example I can think of right off the bat), but most songs in minor keys will contain a major V chord.

It's true that there's not enough information given to be 100% sure about the key of the song, but it's most likely in Em.

 

[famous beagle]

Puhleeze. Can anyone think of any example songs in a key where the root chord does not get played? In theory you can probably score every song in existence in the key of C but you'd have fill the manuscript with accidentals to do it.

C'mon, enough information has been given - it's not impossible or too confusing to figure out. It's being made far more complicated than it actually is.

The OP says Em is the first of a total of three chords. It ends on Em. I'm betting it sounds naturally resolved when it ends.

Play the outro for any song and 9 times out of 10 the final resolving chord is the key.

You have to be careful though with the "first chord" or "last chord" way of thinking. There are many, many songs where the first and/or last chord is not the tonic chord.

"Landslide" is a good example of this. Many people think this song is in Eb major (because it's the first chord) or Cm (because it's the last chord played), but the song is actually in Bb major. The Eb chord at the beginning is actually a IV chord, so the progression of the verse goes like:

||: IV | I6 | ii | I6 :||

where I6 is the I chord in first inversion.

There are a lot of songs that start on IV chords and end on them too.

And, actually, I'll take your challenge and name a song where the tonic chord never gets played (or at least I think). That would be "Dreams" by Fleetwood Mac (I'm really not a Fleetwood Mac freak or anything---it just so happens Stevie Nicks writes songs that work well for these demonstrations!).

If memory serves me correctly, that song, which is in A minor (or C major I guess you could argue, but I would say A minor), consists of nothing but F and G chords throughout the whole thing. No Am or C chords at all.

 

[fraserhutch]

Not true for modal, in which case a minor v chord is the norm.

Actually, though, if it were in Am, then you'd more likely see an E major chord as the V chord. Even though Em is the diatonic chord in A minor, a minor v to a minor i chord is not a very strong resolution. So most composers (since before the Baroque era anyway) have been substituting E major to get a stronger resolution because of the leading tone created (in this case, changing Em to E major makes the note G a G#).

 

[famous beagle]

Not true for modal, in which case a minor v chord is the norm.

True, but ... what's more common nowadays? Modal or tonal music? And therefore which are you "more likely to see" ?

 

[fraserhutch]

True, but ... what's more common nowadays? Modal or tonal music?

Modal's still quite popular, maybe not in the mainstream, which hardly represents all music

 

[famous beagle]

Modal's still quite popular, maybe not in the mainstream, which hardly represents all music

Are you talking like in folk music, or ... jazz, or ... what genre specifically? I'm just curious.

 

[fraserhutch]

Are you talking like in folk music, or ... jazz, or ... what genre specifically? I'm just curious.

Umm, incidentally, modal is still tonal

I'm talking all types, not just jazz. For example, progressive rock used a fair amount. The fact is, most current mainstream music is very limited harmonically.....

 

[famous beagle]

Umm, incidentally, modal is still tonal

I'm talking all types, not just jazz. For example, progressive rock used a fair amount. The fact is, most current mainstream music is very limited harmonically.....

Well, it's tonal in that it's not ATONAL. But there's usually a distinction made between the "modal" music of the church, and the "tonal" music that eventually developed. Tonal music resolves around the tonic, whereas the modal music of the church treated the tones of a mode much more equally. The "sound" of the mode as a whole was really more important than one tone being the centerpiece of resolution.

That's why when "tonal" music caught on, they altered the minor mode to contain a major V chord (and eventually major IV chord often when moving to V). It provided the desired leading tone resolution that the pure minor mode didn't have.

 

[fraserhutch]

I wasn't referring tro modal music as in medieval music (chant), I was referring to modern modal music, which DOES have a strong tonal center and strong resolution.


I'm not talking about modal

Well, it's tonal in that it's not ATONAL. But there's usually a distinction made between the "modal" music of the church, and the "tonal" music that eventually developed. Tonal music resolves around the tonic, whereas the modal music of the church treated the tones of a mode much more equally. The "sound" of the mode as a whole was really more important than one tone being the centerpiece of resolution.

That's why when "tonal" music caught on, they altered the minor mode to contain a major V chord (and eventually major IV chord often when moving to V). It provided the desired leading tone resolution that the pure minor mode didn't have.

 

[famous beagle]

I wasn't referring tro modal music as in medieval music (chant), I was referring to modern modal music, which DOES have a strong tonal center and strong resolution.


I'm not talking about modal

Oh ok I see. You mean kind of like the way Vai or Satriani will use the Lydian mode, or how it appears in film scores and things like that?

 

[dementedchord]

actually if ya want to get technical there's a lot of modal music out there... ever played a I IV V rock song with all dominant chords???? ever paly a minor blues wher the passing chord associated with the I is major but the IV is min and it's passing chord is maj???

 

[fraserhutch]

Oh ok I see. You mean kind of like the way Vai or Satriani will use the Lydian mode, or how it appears in film scores and things like that?

More or less, yes. Also, the impressionists, etc.

BTW, the "I'm not talking about modal" was a cut and paste error.