Can't Get Guitar to sound right when recording

[Simplex09]

Actually, the OP is obviously trying to get Kurt Cobain's tone, which was on the thin side. He's not trying to get a Grant Green or Wes Montgomery jazz sound, or a Jimmy Page, Carlos Santana or Duane Allman rock sound. His last post with the straight in recording isn't too far off the mark of Cobain's clean tone. A touch more bass might get there. Obviously the one thing that he's missing is Krist Novoselic's bass and Dave Grohl's thundering drums. They provide the bottom that Kurt didn't have.

He still needs to work on setting his DS-1. It's just "fingernails on the chalkboard" irritating, and sounds nothing like Kurt's distorted sound. Cobain also used several different distortion pedals over his career. A different pedal might be the quicker way to get to his goal. He didn't use the same gear over the years.

Changing a tube, or a new cable isn't going to do diddly. I have guitar cables that are over a dozen years old. As long as the solder joints are ok, they fine. If they start to cut out, I get the soldering iron out and fix it. My main cable is one built by a friend with a Neutrik Silent Tip plug on one end. He was selling cables many years ago as a hobby. It doesn't sound any different, but it doesn't go BUZZZZ when you try to plug it in.

Oh wow honestly I didn't think about just cutting off the wrapping and re-soldering it. I'm going to try that with one of the cables thanks for the tip!! I actually had a cable that couldn't be unscrewed so I know you can also just cut off the connector and just strip the wires and re-solder to a male end you buy on amazon. But thanks for the tip I'm going to try it I didn't think resoldering it would work.

 

[Old Music Guy]

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I'll start:

 

[Simplex09]

I have to post this. I've had no troubles recording with this setup. (BTW: This is my analog side.)

On the right is a Peavey RSM 4026 and below it on the rack is a TASCAM 16X08. I use the TASCAM mic preamps to condition the signal to the Peavey. Why? Because the preamps in the TASCAM are superb, and extremely quiet. Moreover, it gives me a significant amount of gain, with a S/N ratio >60dB, (and a Line Out if I want it. It also gives me the option of using a mic for the amp, preamp from the amp and/or both. I can monitor the output of the unit with headphones at this gain stage.

From the TASCAM I run the Line Outs to the Peavey's Mic inputs. This gives me another gain stage. This allows me to essentially fix the levels where I want them without having to worry about the S/N ratio. (I know this sounds redundant, but it really keeps the noise floor very low). The Peavey has a channel strip, pans, 6 AUX channels and 6 Groups. There are also Inserts for each channel so if I choose, I can send any or none of 6 channel to the dbx 266xl compressors. I purposely leave 2 channels "raw". I can also monitor the signal at that point. Even with LED meters, It's good to hear. (I wish they never did away with VU meters )

The Peavey has Direct Outs and Tape Returns which I send to the REVOX C 278. The REVOX pretty much takes care of itself. The inputs have a "CALIBRATED" setting which sets all 8 channels inputs to a fixed reference (meter) setting of 0dB. There is also an "UNCALIBRATED" function with allows for individual input adjustment. If I need to use that, I did something wrong early on in the gain staging. There is also a headphone output there to monitor the signal at the recorder.

The Peavey has Master outs, which is self explanatory.

I showed just three guitars. Each present different challenges for recording. However, if it's taken step by step, good things result.

No, I will not be posting any recordings, and don't call the number on the For Sale sign. It's not mine and the person on the end of that line is ... Well, just don't call.

View attachment 147197View attachment 147215View attachment 147206

That equipment is really awesome! I bet it sounds awesome when you record to a tape like that!

 

[Old Music Guy]

That equipment is really awesome!

Thanks. Me and my friends use it to flesh out ideas. Some good, some not so good.
My comment about no samples was because, I haven't spoken to my band mates about it. And none of it is mixed. It's easier to record on tape than into a DAW.

 

[Simplex09]

Thanks. Me and my friends use it to flesh out ideas. Some good, some not so good.
My comment about no samples was because, I haven't spoken to my band mates about it. And none of it is mixed. It's easier to record on tape than into a DAW.

That's interesting.. So you record to tape then playback the tape into a audio interface into daw? I heard recording to tapes cause some cool effects to the audio that can't be done digitally. Well of course like amp sims you can always add in a tape effect to your track but not the same.

 

[Old Music Guy]

That's interesting.. So you record to tape then playback the tape into a audio interface into daw? I heard recording to tapes cause some cool effects to the audio that can't be done digitally. Well of course like amp sims you can always add in a tape effect to your track but not the same.

Analog has always been my choice. I find that a tape recorder is much easier to manipulate than a DAW: FF, REV, RECORD and PLAY. Overdubbing can be a challenge when I'm by myself, but, hey...
If there's something we agree on, I can bring the PC over to the TASCAM and send it to the DAW. Then the mix.
I also have a DAW/MIDI setup for a few keyboards that I can throw in pasta ideas. Some stick, most don't.

On the flip, no matter how cool that stuff looks, GIGO. "Garbage In, Garbage Out". You should concentrate on getting your thing together. Find your sound. Find your stage. I have 14 guitars, and each one speaks to me differently. I've modified the ones that didn't speak to me out of the box. Some I won't touch. I know what I want, I know which guitar I'll use, and know how to use it. You should spend more time loving your Strat and hearing what he/she has to say, and then give it a voice. That's your JOB! Lean in to it,

 

[rob aylestone]

Well, my DAW has FF, RW, STOP, PAUSE, PLAY and RECORD buttons? The only thing missing is rotating spools, alcohol and buds, screwdrivers and hiss.

To Simplex - please do not even think about tape. You 'have heard' so much that has totally messed you up, that even thinking about tape is daft!

Also - your mic placement on speakers got reversed a bit. Centre is warm, darker, fuller and the edge of the cone is brighter, more cutting, thinner and detailed. Plus, distance increases warmth and the other stuff and distance reduces it - as mic's that have a cardioid response do this by design.

Asa somebody said - plug in, adjust and ignore the numbers - find what you want.

 

[TalismanRich]

I thought of this thread when I got a notification from JHS pedals.

How to sound like Nirvana's Tone is Harder Than You Think.

 

[Simplex09]

I thought of this thread when I got a notification from JHS pedals.

How to sound like Nirvana's Tone is Harder Than You Think.

Thanks for the update post. I have been messing around a bit more and took all the advice given on this post. I think my sounds better than it did when we started. I got a audio interface that supports 3 microphones and been experiencing 2 sm57 with off dust cap 45o pointing towards dust cab and a at2020. Kurts tone used the mesa boogie pre amp with eq section so also been experiencing with an eq pedal to boost the highend. Also been using headphones while i play so i can hear what the mics hear and adjust accordingly. I will post a update for feedback soon!

 

[mixsit]

..Also - your mic placement on speakers got reversed a bit. Centre is warm, darker, fuller and the edge of the cone is brighter, more cutting, thinner and detailed. Plus, distance increases warmth and the other stuff and distance reduces it - as mic's that have a cardioid response do this by design.

Hi Rob. 'Saw that.. My.. 'auto pilot -what's left of it I guess? Right off went 'No, That isn't..'
'Guess then what happened though. Just, had to 'look it up. 'Auto Pilot.. She was right you know.. That part of it was nice.
But.. this 'doubt shit ..crap!? This 'old? What the..

 

[Simplex09]

Here is me trying to recreate the "Live at the Paramount" Lithium. Which I believe from what I saw online it has a lot of highend in his guitar

This was recorded with three mics
-Two SM57 (Off Dust Cap + 45o pointing towards dust cap)
-One At2020 as the room Mic

Amp
1980 Twin Reverb

 

[rob aylestone]

I fear you are reading so much stuff online, the sort of stuff that is gilding the lily technique - but you've not nailed the guitar, pedal and amp sound yet. They all lack body, are very 'sharp', especially when you accidentally had the volume quite high like I just did, and the distortion is the early 70s transistor distortion - all fuzzy and no thickness.

One question. What does it sound like in the room? Is it a gorgeous, thick guitar sound to your ears? One mic is probably 95% of most people's sound. No room mic, no second mic at a different place. One mic centre if you want mellow, and towards the edge for more cutting - BUT it must sound good before you press record. You are still (in my humble view) doing something very odd with the EQ and processing?

 

[Papanate]

Here is me trying to recreate the "Live at the Paramount" Lithium. Which I believe from what I saw online it has a lot of highend in his guitar

This was recorded with three mics
-Two SM57 (Off Dust Cap + 45o pointing towards dust cap)
-One At2020 as the room Mic

Amp
1980 Twin Reverb

You ears must be trashed - work on your playing ability then work on the tone - don’t you realize the tone you are looking for isn’t close to the ‘sound’ you are getting?

 

[Papanate]

What does it sound like in the room?

It sounds just like it sounds I bet.

 

[Simplex09]

I fear you are reading so much stuff online, the sort of stuff that is gilding the lily technique - but you've not nailed the guitar, pedal and amp sound yet. They all lack body, are very 'sharp', especially when you accidentally had the volume quite high like I just did, and the distortion is the early 70s transistor distortion - all fuzzy and no thickness.

One question. What does it sound like in the room? Is it a gorgeous, thick guitar sound to your ears? One mic is probably 95% of most people's sound. No room mic, no second mic at a different place. One mic centre if you want mellow, and towards the edge for more cutting - BUT it must sound good before you press record. You are still (in my humble view) doing something very odd with the EQ and processing?

Here are my settings. Then the guitar volume is turned to maybe about 8ish. I know that the playing isn't the best but I just grabbed it quickly before running to work. I followed some of Aaron rash videos + nirvanaguitars. If I was to describe where the microphone postion is right now i would say about 1 inch away from the dust cap as I heard it can be a bit harsh sounding center. Just out of curiosity what's a good level to record the mic gain st? I heard -6 and -12 and also heard anywhere in between. Is it also better to record all mics at the same volume to start off with? I assume depending on the final results you want is how loud the other teo mics should be. So not really a right answer to that.

So if you have any suggestions on any adjustments then I can try it. I could try turning up the bass a bit or turning down the mids / trebble.

Thanks

 

[bouldersoundguy]

What are the odds the amp is still pointing at his calves? (I was already writing this when that last post showed up.)

 

[60's guy]

Here is me trying to recreate the "Live at the Paramount" Lithium. Which I believe from what I saw online it has a lot of highend in his guitar

This was recorded with three mics
-Two SM57 (Off Dust Cap + 45o pointing towards dust cap)
-One At2020 as the room Mic

Amp
1980 Twin Reverb

No disrespect intended, but I hear lots of stuttering/hesitation at the very beginning which leads me think that you were wearing headphones listening to a tune and attempting to play along with it, but lagging a bit behind.

Is that what you were doing?

In the meantime.....ditch the pedals.

 

[TalismanRich]

No disrespect intended, but I hear lots of stuttering/hesitation at the very beginning which leads me think that you were wearing headphones listening to a tune and attempting to play along with it, but lagging a bit behind.

Is that what you were doing?

In the meantime.....ditch the pedals.

Clean playing reveals a lot in technique (or lack of). Kicking in lots of distortion covers a myriad of sins. At the same time, if you really want to do Nirvana, you need both clean and extreme fuzz, like the SD1 or RAT set full blown. It's just a continuation of the the Fuzz Face or Big Muff that we had back "in the day".

 

[Old Music Guy]

work on your playing ability then work on the tone

My momma said, "If you ain't got nothin good to say, then shut up."
me:

 

[Simplex09]

So I changed up a lot of things now I have the amp sitting on a cabinet above 3 feet off the ground I would guess.

I lowered the "Volume 2" on the amp and just raised the "Mastervolume 4" see if that would help clean up the clean tones a bit.

In my opinion from listening to both the one posted earlier and now side by side I do like the one attached to this comment now much better.

Mic1 SM57 is about right off the center edge of the dust cap.
Mic2 SM57 (China copy) is like center between the edge of the speaker and the edge of the dust cap
Mic3 I have about 6 feet away from the amp and about 3 feet higher than the amp.

Thanks for all your help guys! I don't really know what I'm doing and just learning as I go I guess everyone has been there at one time or another.