Can we be honest about the C19 Shot?

[WWLaidback]

If the vaccine did this to you, a full blown case of covid probably would have killed you. I'd be grateful for the shot if I were you.

Assertions without evidence will likewise be dismissed without evidence.
I spoke with a doctor recently, and he said I had a strong immunity system response to shot #2 - which is good.
I still have not taken shot #3 after the VAERS report showed a risk of blood-clotting. Stroke runs in my family genes. I want to know more before I take the 3rd shot.

 

[leddy]

Assertions without evidence will likewise be dismissed without evidence.
I spoke with a doctor recently, and he said I had a strong immunity system response to shot #2 - which is good.
I still have not taken shot #3 after the VAERS report showed a risk of blood-clotting. Stroke runs in my family genes. I want to know more before I take the 3rd shot.

Anyone can submit a vaers report. It is an early warning system and it's being abused, possibly even being populated with false reports by other countries etc.

If evidence is important to you, perhaps you shouldn't concern yourself with vaers reports.

By all means take your stroke risk seriously of course. The virus is much more likely to cause a stroke than the vaccine.

Risk of Acute MI and Ischemic Stroke After COVID-19 - American College of Cardiology

Debabrata Mukherjee, MD, FACC

www.acc.org

 

[WWLaidback]

Anyone can submit a vaers report. It is an early warning system and it's being abused, possibly even being populated with false reports by other countries etc.

The CDC-VAERS says there are more covid-vax deaths than all other vaccines combined since 1990... The VAERS report is an early warning system, and I have been warned. You should show your data that is better before you diss it.

 

[leddy]

The CDC-VAERS says there are more covid-vax deaths than all other vaccines combined since 1990... The VAERS report is an early warning system, and I have been warned. You should show your data that is better before you diss it.

This is not scientific data. You have no idea if any of these are a) reported in good faith, and b) causal. ANYONE can submit a report. Even those with an agenda to spread misinformation. Even if everyone was a legit death from the vaccine (which they are certainly not), it's about 2% of the number of Americans who have died of covid.

COVID-19 Vaccination

COVID-19 vaccines protect against COVID-19. Get safety info and more.

www.cdc.gov

 

[leddy]

The CDC-VAERS says there are more covid-vax deaths than all other vaccines combined since 1990... The VAERS report is an early warning system, and I have been warned. You should show your data that is better before you diss it.

From the CDC website:

VAERS Limitations​

VAERS reports alone generally cannot be used to determine if a vaccine caused or contributed to an adverse event or illness. Some reports may contain information that is incomplete, inaccurate, coincidental, or unverifiable. VAERS reports often lack contextual information, such as total vaccinations given or information on unvaccinated groups for comparison. Most reports to VAERS are voluntary, which means they may be subject to biases. Data from VAERS reports should always be interpreted with these limitations in mind.

 

[WWLaidback]

This is not scientific data. You have no idea if any of these are a) reported in good faith, and b) causal. ANYONE can submit a report.

So what? The same can be said for any other vaccine in recent history. The VAERS tool is useful (including its limitations) or the science community wouldn't be using it. Just follow the directions. The directions tell us that further studies are needed on the warning signals. It means there are risks. You'd be a unscientific to just assume those risks are negligible or zero, which you seem to be doing. This was already covered in the thread: https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html

 

[leddy]

So what? The same can be said for any other vaccine in recent history. The VAERS tool is useful (including its limitations) or the science community wouldn't be using it. Just follow the directions. The directions tell us that further studies are needed on the warning signals. It means there are risks. You'd be a unscientific to just assume those risks are negligible or zero, which you seem to be doing. This was already covered in the thread: https://vaers.hhs.gov/data.html

Lol. I linked CDC data more than once showing verified adverse events and real risk. My assertion is that the disease is much worse than the vaccine (which is not perfect but still very safe and effective), which is supported by the science. That’s all. If you have something more credible than Vaers to refute that, by all means let’s hear it. Otherwise…

 

[leddy]

How a CDC Database Is Fueling Global Anti-Vaccination Sentiment - Harvard Political Review

Gunshot wounds and herpes are among the alleged side effects of the coronavirus vaccine reported by the CDC's VAERS database, which now forms the foundation of a global online misinformation campaign which to-date has garnered little attention. In a world of fake news and disinformation...

harvardpolitics.com

 

[WWLaidback]

My assertion is that the disease is much worse than the vaccine (which is not perfect but still very safe and effective), which is supported by the science. That’s all. If you have something more credible than Vaers to refute that, by all means let’s hear it.

The VAERs report is not the weakness. The real weakness is that you don't know how to use a VAERs report as you shill for pharmaceuticals. The risk is indeed REAL for Guillain Barre survivors, which includes my step-nephew.

He had Guillain Barre's syndrome as a child, and he can not take vaccines PERIOD. His last flu vaccine shot nearly killed him in the hospital.

If you get a lawsuit, all I can say is -- that you deserve it, and the people that misinform you deserve it too. The CDC recommends further evaluation of items in the VAERs report. That is just standard operating procedure for all vaccines. Why should the covid-vax be treated any differently unless you have an agenda for the pharmaceutical industry? Why not follow the CDC/FDA directions like you would do with any other medical prescription?

VAERS Summary for COVID-19 Vaccines through 9/24/2021 – VAERS Analysis

vaersanalysis.info

 

[WWLaidback]

How a CDC Database Is Fueling Global Anti-Vaccination Sentiment - Harvard Political Review

Gunshot wounds and herpes are among the alleged side effects of the coronavirus vaccine reported by the CDC's VAERS database, which now forms the foundation of a global online misinformation campaign which to-date has garnered little attention. In a world of fake news and disinformation...

harvardpolitics.com

Harvard politics. Would that be "political science"?
Harvard med school gets plenty of pharma money, as they look after the hand that feeds. Obviously.
I've already had 2 covid-shots, BTW, so don't call me an anti-vaxer. Thank you.

 

[leddy]

Your constant straw man arguments are ridiculous. I never called you an anti vaxer or even implied it. Never said vaccine was zero risk. We all understand there are risks to any vaccine. This particular vaccine is more politicized and the vaers system is essentially being hacked, and therefore less helpful than it has previously been. The vaccine is a net positive benefit vs risk, and dramatically so. That’s it.

My child suffered a rare complication from a procedure. Sucks beyond words, but the procedure is helpful to many more kids than not. I’m not calling parents shills for supporting the procedure. Get a grip.

 

[WWLaidback]

Your constant straw man arguments are ridiculous.

My step-nephew with GB doesn't fit the vax-one-and-all narrative you are pushing. Do you want him to take the shot? Seriously? Maybe, take your own advice about getting a grip.

BTW, my wife is an RN. I asked her about AEs. The doctor is supposed to advise his patients about AEs before they take a medicine, especially for serious complications.

My child suffered a rare complication from a procedure.

They should have warned you about it, and you are supposed to sign a waiver form. If not, then you can sue them for malpractice according to the RN wife. Maybe you should consider it.

 

[leddy]

My step-nephew with GB doesn't fit the vax-one-and-all narrative you are pushing. Do you want him to take the shot? Seriously? Maybe, take your own advice about getting a grip.

BTW, my wife is an RN. I asked her about AEs. The doctor is supposed to advise his patients about AEs before they take a medicine, especially for serious complications.



They should have warned you about it, and you are supposed to sign a waiver form. If not, then you can sue them for malpractice according to the RN wife. Maybe you should consider it.

Again, you are assuming things and arguing against them instead of what I’ve actually said, so I’m done discussing with you further. We’re closer to agreement than not, you just seem to want to fight.

There are certainly legit reasons to not get a vaccine. They are very rare, but they exist. That’s where we disagree. You seem to want to use shaky evidence (vaers) to exaggerate the risks. I was aware of the risks for my child. We made a decision based on the science and had a bad event. We were one in a thousand or so. If I had to make the decision again it wouldn’t be different. Glad you got the vaccine. Sorry about your relative with GB. Bye.

 

[WWLaidback]

Again, you are assuming things and arguing against them instead of what I’ve actually said, so I’m done discussing with you further. We’re closer to agreement than not, you just seem to want to fight.

There are certainly legit reasons to not get a vaccine. They are very rare, but they exist. That’s where we disagree.

One size doesn't fit all. I'm sorry that hurts your feelings, and the exceptions are not so rare as you claim them to be.

Personally, I think it is just common sense to defer the booster shot right after you get covid.

I spoke with an elderly couple today that both got covid in September after their vax shots. They both decided to defer the booster. Good for them. I would do the same. The vax shots probably lessened the severity of the infection, but that is just speculation on my part, to be honest.

You seem to want to use shaky evidence (vaers) to exaggerate the risks.

Yet there is a risk as much as you want to deny it. That risk should be evaluated in a rational world, as much as you dislike the idea. That is all I asked for -- was an evaluation of the risk, because I do not have the blind faith that you expect out of me. Maybe you'll learn something from a couple of lawsuits.

 

[WWLaidback]

I was aware of the risks for my child. We made a decision based on the science and had a bad event. We were one in a thousand or so. If I had to make the decision again it wouldn’t be different.

Even so, you could have a malpractice lawsuit against them unless they required you to sign a waiver. An award depends on how bad the bad event was, and any excessive risk exposure they put on your son. Even if everything was on the up-and-up -- you could still have a lawsuit award waiting for you. It happens all the time in the pharmaceutical industry.

My brother-in-law is a dermatologist. He practices medicine to a 1-in-ten-thousand risk of a bad event. His medical liability insurance coverage requires it, and that is the ethical standard to practice medicine in our state and nationwide as far as I know. The insurance company is prepared for the payout as well. His malpractice-liability insurance is more than his doctor-salary.

 

[WWLaidback]

However, one group of people who shouldn't get the vaccine, are those who suffer from Guillain-Barre syndrome, a "reaction, which is a rare neurological reaction to either influenza or the vaccine for influenza," he explained. "We recommend that those people do not get vaccinated because you might trigger a similar, serious response." Dr Anthony Fauci

"Boy I'll say!" WWLaidback

 

[WWLaidback]

And now a video of recognition -- to the lab in Wuhan that made it all possible -- with a germ that somehow picked up a piece of AIDs, a piece of SARs, and pieces of this and that -- where there is no evidence that it can even survive in nature -- apart from the helping hand of its loving creator. It's the gift that just keeps on giving.

 

[Mr. ROUSH]

Pretty disturbing how many people allow political bias to supersede common sense. They’ve only been fighting and studying infectious disease for 225 years. They might just have some idea of how to address it. Facebook epidemiologists are the worst. Your 20 minutes of googling does not compare to thousands of infectious disease experts who have dedicated their entire adult lives to the subject. Look, just listen to your doctor and move on with life. Hopefully, your doctor is not one of the very few crackpots running around denying science.

 

[WWLaidback]

Pretty disturbing how many people allow political bias to supersede common sense. They’ve only been fighting and studying infectious disease for 225 years. They might just have some idea of how to address it. Facebook epidemiologists are the worst. Your 20 minutes of googling does not compare to thousands of infectious disease experts who have dedicated their entire adult lives to the subject. Look, just listen to your doctor and move on with life. Hopefully, your doctor is not one of the very few crackpots running around denying science.

Speaking of doctors that dedicated their entire lives to the subject: Have you heard about Dr. Vladimir Zelenko that was nominated for a Nobel Peace after treating his covid-patients with hydroxychloroquine and zinc -- BEFORE the vax was available? He saved thousands of lives in California. I discussed Dr. Zelenko's regimen with my personal doctor, as you say, and I have it ready as a back-up plan. My doctor said he did not appreciate some high-school flunky politician telling him how to practice medicine, as he filled out my prescriptions. He recommended the vax shot as well, and said he personally would take zinc -- if he thought he was coming down with the covid-virus.

Speaking of bias superseding common sense, did you hear what Neil Cavuto said about HCQ -- BEFORE the vax was available? The troops in Viet Nam used HCQ on a regular basis. It did NOT kill them, as Mr. Cavuto plays Dr. know-it all. He's an idiot, consumed with TDS bias. There's no telling how many people he killed. The clinical trial he references were bogus too. He just had to make his point against Mr. Trump like so many lefty loons, that say they are on the side of science, as they ignore therapeutic treatments for covid. That is NOT science at all. I took the vax shots, AND I have my back-up plan with the therapeutics too -- just in case. THAT is science.

 

[Mr. ROUSH]

Speaking of doctors that dedicated their entire lives to the subject, and the science of it all: Have you heard about Dr. Vladimir Zelenko that was nominated for a Nobel Peace after treating his covid-patients with hydroxychloroquine and zinc? He saved thousands of lives in California. I discussed Dr. Zelenko's regimen with my personal doctor, and I have it ready as a back-up plan. My doctor said he did not appreciate some high-school flunky politician telling him how to practice medicine, as he filled out my prescriptions.

Speaking of bias superseding common sense, did you hear what Neil Cavuto said about HCQ? The troops in Viet Nam used HCQ on a regular basis. It did NOT kill them, as Mr. Cavuto plays Dr. know-it all. He's an idiot, consumed with TDS bias. The clinical trial he references were bogus too. He just had to make his point against Mr. Trump like so many lefty loons, that say they are on the side of science, as they ignore therapeutic treatments for covid. That is NOT science at all. I took the vax shots, AND I have my back-up plan with the therapeutics too.

Annnnd, there you have it. One of the most infamous crackpots of all. It might benefit you to know that Zelenko was run out of his own community for spreading disinformation. I don’t care if you win 100 Nobel Prize awards. A lie is still a lie. He, in fact, did not save all those lives. HCQ is absolutely not supported by the data. Why you’re holding on so hard to a conspiracy that has been heavily debunked is beyond me. Trump is an absolute dipshit. If any of your conclusions are based on anything Trump said, check yourself in somewhere. I don’t care about your Doctor’s political bias either. You don’t have to listen to a single politician to learn that the vaccine is the key to getting the pandemic under control. Again, it’s disturbing how many people are allowing their ridiculous, childish political bias drive their decisions.