C1, Audio Technica4033sm or sure ksm44?

[spectoar]

Hi,
I'm looking for a new condenser and These are the three I'm checking out. Been hearing great things about the c1 but is it great 'for that price'? or is it really great? How does it compare to the shure ksm44 or ksm32? Also any info on the 4033 would be appreciated. Thanks

 

[charger]

The 4033 is pretty good on guitar amps. I'm one of the people who has one and doesn't really love it. I think the c1 is probably a more useful mic for vocals and all around use, and to me it sounds better.

 

[Gidge]

and of course i love my Marshall MXLv67......

 

[chessparov]

The C3 sounds even better than the C1 and it's multi-pattern!

 

[frist44]

I know the c1 is versitile, but would it outdo the 4033 on guitar amps?

Brandon

 

[charger]

I know the c1 is versitile, but would it outdo the 4033 on guitar amps?

Nine times out ten, I use an SM57 for a guitar amp. I think an SM57 would outdo either the C1 or the 4033 for the kind of classic recorded guitar amp sound everyone knows and loves. If you're buying the mic to record guitar amps, I would recommend the SM57 over either of those.

 

[Gidge]

while some engineers/producers rely solely on the sm57, alot will use a LD condenser or ribbon as a supplement.....if you dont have a nice sounding room, stick with just the 57......

spect, what will this mic be used for?.....

 

[CyanJaguar]

listen to bruces mp3 in the clinic. It sounds better than any c1 I've ever heard and I've heard a few

 

[alanhyatt]

I know the c1 is versitile, but would it outdo the 4033 on guitar amps?

Brandon

Well, from a non-biased point of view, the 4033 is a 3 micron thickness, or even less. I know it is pretty thin. It does have a mid range bump that makes it a bit nasal sounding, but it is built well, and affordable.

The C1 is a 6 micron, so it handles much more SPL as a result of the thickness. This means it will handle guitar amps really well, as well as other loud instruments. It has a very good low end, actually bigger than the 4033, and the top end is very present with no mid bump, so many prefer it for vocals as well.

Now you may prefer one sound over the other, that is up to you. The C1 is well built, and it comes with a case, and shockmount, and it has a pad and Hi-Pass filter.

Either mic is a good one, so you need to decide what you want. I can only speak for my ears, and everyone else on this site can only speak for their ears. Every suggestion is an opinion at best here, including mine...so do the homework

Alan Hyatt
PMI Audio Group
Studio Projects

 

[CyanJaguar]

I heard that the ksm 44 sounds exactly like a 4050. I would rather get an at though cos I heard a ksm32 and it sounded extremely bland.

BTW

very short vocal demo of the acclaimed 4033 that I did this past weekend

 

[Harvey Gerst]

The C1 is a 6 micron, so it handles much more SPL as a result of the thickness.

Huh??? You wanna run that by me again?

 

[Gidge]

busted......

 

[frist44]

I have an SM-57 and have recorded guitar cabinets with it before with a small degree of success. But there was a bunch of other crappy factors after the mic that degraded its sound. I also have a v67. I plan to try and mic that further away and get a good room sound.

Back to my question more specifically, would the sound of the 4033 on guitar cabinets, preferrably distorted guitars, be that much better than a 57 on the grille and a v67 further back???

~Brandon

 

[jimistone]

I have been tracking with the c1 going into a joe meek vc6q and I think it sounds fantastic on guitar cabs. The style of music im doing is blues and the guitar tone im using is 100% clean....I crank the pre-gain on the meek real hard (seems like thats the only way to get the compresser to really kick in right) I crank the compresser real hard and give it alot of slope (whatever that is) set the attack at about 12 o'clock and the release almost wide open. Looking at the meter on the meek you'd swear its clipping...but I don't hear any unwanted distortion. that set-up is the ticket for blues. It just sings and the compresser makes it sustain till the harmonics take over...without the over drive gazoo tone. I have a 57 too...but the c-1 and the meek has alot more detail on the clean sound.
The set-up i really want is to get another good pre to run the c-1 into and use the meek between the guitar and the amp. I've done that live in a gig situation and other musicians are asking how im getting that great tone and sustain at low volume through a pevey solid state amp. It just blows there minds.
I may be trying out the studio projects tube pre Alan....I really like the c-1. Right now im dumping every dime I can scrape up to go into finishing the inside of my studio.

 

[CyanJaguar]

the 4033 on guitars?

a writer said that the at 4033/4050 were the best mics he ever used on guitar cabs and I agree. It sounds rich and warm. Very warm, inviting.

 

[jet-rocker]

Yeah. The 4033 is just so-so on my voice... I don't think that the frequency bump and my voice get along so well. This varies 100% from person to person.

It's killer on my overdriven Sovtek for balls-out punk. I'd take the 4033 over a 57 most days of the week for that (and often do).

-Jett

 

[Track Rat]

4033 on guitar amps. Absolutely

 

[KingNothing]

I wanna hear the 3 versus 6 micron thickness explanation.

 

[alanhyatt]

Ok, to Harvey and the King, I will run it by again. Traditionally, 6 micron Mylar takes more inertia to make it move than a 3 micron, so it takes more pressure to move the center point of the Mylar. Now there are many factors that are involved. Distance of the gap for one, tension is the other, and the back plate has factors as well. There is also the air pocket behind the diaphragm that contributes to this. Its stiffness affects the ability of the film to excurse.

Ok, thinner Mylar could and can handle the same SPL based on all of the above factors, but in my experience, and I would think yours, but only you can answer that one, most 3 micron products don’t. Again, this is “my” experience. I checked AT’s site today, but could not get the rated thickness of the Mylar, but I am pretty sure it is 3um..If I am wrong Harvey, then my fault. Its SPL rating is high, but all ratings are limited by the amplifier load factor, and at 100 ohms, the AT takes less loading than the 200 ohm C1, so amplifier factor is a big difference here. Since there is no Ad Hoc committee on the regulation of specs, many specs made claim to at a specific testing point are not the same under conditions and are done so to make them look good. To be clear on this, I am not saying AT does this, but others do.

I have used the 4033 in real world applications. I have publicly stated on this thread that it is a well built mic, and I am not AT bashing. All I am saying is the C1 has handled more SPL for me in “my” application experience. Nothing against AT here, I am only offering my opinion on my findings.

Like I said, you’re findings may be different. In addition, most mass manufactured capsules have more variation in tension, back plate and air pockets. It is hard to keep quality control over this variable, so you have to be on top of it all the time to ensure consistency.

Hell, Stephen Paul can do it on a sub Micron capsule, but all of his variables are accounted for. Agree, or don't agree, this is my position. I am not always correct on everything, and I am not a designer by trade. Like Stephen Paul, I am self taught by experience, but am not near a Stephen Paul.

My guess is he forgot more about this shit then I ever knew.


Alan Hyatt

Gidge,

Busted for what

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Alan,

I'm not sure that I buy the explanation that a thicker diaphragm will handle more SPL than a thinner diaphragm, even if all else is equal. The thicker diaphragm will definitely sound different due to the extra mass, but greater SPL handling?

There are too many variables in the design of a condenser mic that will make a greater contribution to the max SPL capabilities than just the thickness of the diaphragm, which I believe would be the least contributor to increasing SPL handling.

I'll check with Stephen about this, as I'm sure you will as well. Right now, I find it an incredible claim, but I'll be the first to admit I'm wrong, if I am.