bypassing my board pre-amps

[steviem]

hello all!
I have a question for all of you.....I recently bought a couple of preamps for my 16 channel Soundcraft board. I record into a pair of Alesis xt20's and the pre's I just picked up are xlr and trs outs....not the adat lightpipe connection. How do I go about plugging into the board, yet still not get any coloration from the board's pre? Can this be done? I've heard of something called a one click technique? Please elaborate if you can, many thanks!

Steve

 

[noisedude]

err ... how about plugging them into line channels...?

is the one-click thing the TRS trick where you don't quite plug it in properly on the Insert?

 

[steviem]

yes that's the one....but i was hoping to get some elaboration on the forces at work. By inserting them into the line in's....will the on board pres still affect the sound???

 

[noisedude]

the line channels (mono/stereo) are ones without preamps in. preamps bring signals up to line level but if you already have a line level signal such as a keyboard (or outboard preamp out) you would use the line channels on your mixer. the reason is that the mic channels in most cheaper mixers would reduce the signal back down and raise it up again, which would waste quality.

i don't know anything about the Insert trick because I don't have inserts myself yet ... just remember reading it recently! all i know is that you would be connecting just the Tip and not the ring ... i think!

 

[hasbeen]

Why don't you go direct from your preamps into the recorder, and use your board for monitoring during the tracking?

 

[lysis]

the one click trick is exactly what it's called. this is when you plug in your 1/4" or whatever size you may have until it clicks just once.it won't be in all the way, and it'll be somewhat loose, so make sure you don't need to bump the mixer or move the cable very much once it's set.

*EDIT*

oh yea; i've noticed the one click trick to allow only mono out when you do it with an output instead of an input.

 

[tubesrawsom]

hey i use seperate preamps and all i do is run the xlr cables from the preamp to the mixer and i dont need to turn up the volume on the mixers preamp, try it
good luck

 

[crosstudio]

tubesrawsom:
even though you don't have the gain up you are still flowing through the circuitry for no reason.

steviem:
i would feed the preamp out directly into the recorder in.

 

[noisedude]

tubesrawsom - the chances are that your pre is still reducing the signal to 'mic' level and bringing it back up again, it just needs less bringing because it's already so hot from your pre...try and find a little about 'minimum signal path' or something similar on the web and you'll start to understand why this can be both annoying and a real problem.

 

[ishkitah]

I've noticed that on some mixers I've used, the preamp gain still affects the line in. Is this something that's common or is it just typical of a less expensive/lower quality board?

Also, I would like to go direct to recorder (from my pre) but I'm running into my PC and sequencing in Sonar. My mixer is essentially a breakout box from my PC's soundcard so I would need something to coincide with my present soundcard.
Thank's
Chuck

 

[sweetnubs]

hey audio buddys, why don't you listen to cross and hasbeen? The point of an external preamp is to circumvent the console and go directly to the multitrack. Why spend money on a more expensive external preamp then color it with your console's circuitry? Go from preamp to xt20 then monitor the returns from the xt on the console. can I get an m'kay audio buddy?

 

[tubesrawsom]

question

so i understood what your saying about minmal signal path but how is it possible to bypass the mixers preamp? doesnt the 1st click method still go thrue the circutry?
peace

 

[sweetnubs]

ok junior. Do not plug the outboard pre into the mixer at all. anywhere. repeat, do not plug the outboard pre to the mixer at all, anywhere. Take the ouput from the OUTboard pre it will be probably labelled OUTPUT. Now connect a cable from the OUTBOARD preamps OUTPUT (do not plug your OUTBOARD preamp into the mixer) to an INPUT on the Adat. Try to use the the ELCO +4dbu INPUTS on the ADAT if you can because they are BALANCED. (assuming your OUTBOARD preamps OUTPUTS are balanced) If you plug the OUTBOARD preamps OUTPUTS (you are not plugging the OUTBOARD preamps OUTPUT anywhere in the console) into the UNBALANCED RCA inputs on the adat you will lose some s/n ratio in the coversion from balanced to unbalanced. So to recap you are hopefully taking your OUTBOARD pramps OUTPUTS to the ELCO INPUTS on the adat. Now take your adat OUTPUTS and plug them into the TAPE RETURN INPUTS on your console. You have completely bypassed your console but can still monitor what is going to the adat INPUTS. now avast ye landlubber.

 

[noisedude]

Service with a smile. Remember not to plug it into your mixer!

 

[ishkitah]

Ok I see the other question ws answered maybe some one can take a look at mine... "I've noticed that on some mixers I've used, the preamp gain still affects the line in. Is this something that's common or is it just typical of a less expensive/lower quality board?

Also, I would like to go direct to recorder (from my pre) but I'm running into my PC and sequencing in Sonar. My mixer is essentially a breakout box from my PC's soundcard so I would need something to coincide with my present soundcard." while bypassing it for the pre
Thank's
Chuck

 

[TexRoadkill]

Running the line inputs through mic pre's is only common on cheaper compact mixers.

I don't understand the second question.

 

[ishkitah]

I record to my PC. The mixer (console) is essentially a break out from my pc's sound card. If I bypass the mixer to run my preamp directly into my pc, I'm going to have to purchase something else like a usb or pci card to add a seperate input to my PC but it obviously can't be something that can cause a conflict with my current sound card.

What about digital in's and out's? I f I ran a preamp with a digital out into my console's digital in would that be the best solution?

 

[TexRoadkill]

Why do you need the mixer connected to the soundcard inputs when you are tracking with the preamp? Just change out the cable or get a patchbay to switch input sources.

The digital I/O on the preamp would be a better solution if you had digital I/O on the soundcard. You will be going through two conversions when you track. Once in the preamp and then again at the soundcard.

 

[noisedude]

yeah i don't see the problem - don't even bother with a patchbay, just get an extension lead off the sound card and swap between your mixer and preamp when you need to. you could get a patchbay, but the Behringer one is unbalanced and so might possibly introduce more noise (not to mention being largely unnecessary for your purposes).

 

[ishkitah]

The sound card is an R-bus which basically looks like a scsi port there is no other in/out's on the card. It then uses a break out cable to plug into my VM-C7200 console. There is no way of disconnecting the console and utilising the sound cards in's.

The console does have digital in's and out's including AES, so I think I'm going to try that route.