Building a pro studio on an amateur budget - triple leaf and other fun

[Freya]

Not sure what you are saying about the cardboard box?
Could you really make a cardboard box airtight with duct tape?!
Guess it depends how much you use?

Strangely I'm sure I have put a radio in a carboard box before now and I do remember it muffling the sound quite a bit despite not being air tight. Perhaps this is what you mean? That air tightness is not that important?

I visited a friends house recently who had a partition wall that I suspect was mostly just a couple of sheets of plasterboard. She was complaining how much sound came through the wall. I on the other hand was deeply shocked at how little sound came through the wall. We closed the door and listened to the music in the other room and it was very muffled. This has come as a great shock to me as I am sitting here in my house, right now, listening to some rock song that goes "I'm wanted [wanted], dead or alive" and I can make out the lyrics through my brick walls. What on earth is wrong with my walls? Maybe it's structure borne transmission?

I just can't understand how I can hear next doors budgie quite clearly through my *brick* walls while her plasterboard partition severely attenuates the sound!

love

Freya

 

[Freya]

<quote>I've not heard much on your own studio plans lately; have you gotten disheartened, or just (like a lot of us) following Mr. Lennon's famous comment "Life is what happens while you're busy making other plans"? </quote>

A bit of both. It's mostly just being really bogged down with other stuff. I've also read a lot of stuff here, and eventually came to the conclusion it was so complicated and almost impossible to do, that I have heavily scaled down everything. I'm probably just going to get some plasterboard and rockwool and sealant and do what I can. I will probably spend a lot of time sealing the doors as much as I can. I'm hoping that I can manage to make things as "sound proof" as a normal modern house is. It would be nice if I can achieve something a little better. I might then try and build a vocal booth too.

I'm not planning anything exciting, I'm just going to have to do the best I can.

love

Freya

 

[Freya]

<i>Actually Freya, it takes BOTH - if you leave a teensy hole in your mass-air-mass construction, it can lower the effectiveness by 20 dB or more.</i>

Which is more important? On the one hand I was very impressed by the effect of the plasterboard partition wall in my friends house which wasn't airtight by any means (normal modern door) but OTOH I also saw a tv in a vaccum sealed perspex box recently which was quite impressive too.

My brick walls should provide more attenuation than my friends plasterboard but for some reason they don't!

At this point I feel very confused.

love

Freya

 

[VSpaceBoy]

A lot depends how loud you get, and what frequencies. Any everything works together to achieve whatever goal you need.

Think of it like this.

Say you need to get to the other side of the lake. You need to make a boat to carry you there. You must first figure out how to make it to support your weight. Collect some wood and nails, then during construction, have to make sure it has no holes or the water will find the hole, get in and sink the boat. Ok now your done. Great, hop in and go over and everything is going as planned. Now, your friends see you and decide they want to cross the lake as well. You try and let them in the boat but quickly find that the boat sinks because it wasn’t designed to hold that many people. NOW you have to figure out how it can. MORE material, better design, yet still can’t have a hole in it or will sink.

The natures of water and air<sound> are not that different. Waterproofing, soundproofing, you have to figure out your end goal and plan accordingly.

Hope that helps

~R

 

[fitZ2]

Not sure what you are saying about the cardboard box?

It is an analogy to sealing a one leaf wall such as your brick wall, or a two leaf wall with little mass. You can seal all you want, but transmission will still occur. MASS and DECOUPLING are the ONLY things that will improve transmission loss. Of course, sealing is required, no matter what type of MASS or Decoupling you may have. But simply saying to seal everything airtight, does not guarantee transmission loss via the partition.

My brick walls should provide more attenuation than my friends plasterboard but for some reason they don't!

This is probably due to the fact that your brick wall is a ONE leaf partition. Even a partition with less mass will perform better, IF it is a two leaf partition, which in the case of a plasterboard wall, if it has a sealed airgap between two leafs of plaster, will probably perform better than the brick. However, they each allow transmission to occur at certain frequencies and amplitude.
fitZ

 

[knightfly]

Another reason may be that most brick walls are fairly porous; they also generally have small "weep" holes near the bottom, because brick is so hygroscopic that there needs to be a way to let all the water out once the brick absorbs it -

One possible reason your friend's plasterboard walls seemed to attenuate the sound so much could be a lack of bass - if the sound was coming from a small boombox, you wouldn't have had any bass energy developed below 100 hZ.

If I remember correctly, your brick walls are "party" walls? As in, they are common between you and another residence? Or am I "remembering" someone else's situation? Anyway, if this is the case, you undoubtedly suffer severely from flanking noise, which could be greatly alleviated with floating construction; this is, however, not too cheap as we discussed before.

Unfortunately, there are some types of construction that sound isolation simply should not be attempted on; brick, with its weep holes and porosity, seems to be one of these - although it CAN be done, it's almost never cheap... Steve

 

[Freya]

Do the 2 sets of mass need to be similar, i.e. could you have a plasterboard side, an airgap and a solid rock side with vastly different thicknesses?

love

Freya

 

[Freya]

One possible reason your friend's plasterboard walls seemed to attenuate the sound so much could be a lack of bass - if the sound was coming from a small boombox, you wouldn't have had any bass energy developed below 100 hZ.

They were small speakers but it wasn't very bass heavy music anyway. Bass is actually not that big of an issue on the whole as my music usually has little bass. Although it can vary. Bass is the least of my worries however anyway, as I'm more concerned with privacy than annoying other people per se.

If I remember correctly, your brick walls are "party" walls? As in, they are common between you and another residence? Or am I "remembering" someone else's situation? Anyway, if this is the case, you undoubtedly suffer severely from flanking noise, which could be greatly alleviated with floating construction; this is, however, not too cheap as we discussed before.

I'm in the basement and one of the walls is a party wall. I'm intending to build a partition wall between that wall and the studio however. The other 3 walls are either internal to my house or external walls. Sadly the building is built like one big building and I suspect a lot of structural features are shared. I notice for instance that the ceiling beams seem to be shared between houses, not so good. I would love to float the ceiling but it seems way too complicated and there isn't bags of height.

love

Freya

 

[knightfly]

Freya, sorry for the delay; life is (as usual) still "Lennonizing" me quite well, thank you -

It truly does sound to me like your ceiling is a serious suspect in your lack of privacy; if you could possibly post some sort of diagram (with measurements) both of your floor plan and a side view showing how these ceiling joists are arranged (with dimensions) we might be able to develop some sort of plan to help your space out quite a bit; keeping in mind also that you need to take this "piecemeal" - I'm willing to try, either here or at John's place (bigger pix allowed, and more stuff for me to link to)

Your comments about the absence of heavy bass should make it easier in some ways, and (fool that I am) I'm usually up for a challenge... Steve

 

[conan]

I've been away for a while getting some actual work done.. glad to see you're still pursuing the privacy, Freya I'm (finally) well into building at the new place and just about to start applying plasterboard. It's gone surprisingly well and wasn't half as difficult as I'd imagined (mostly due to advice from people like the good folks here who made sure I avoided any stupid problems before the first plank of wood was sawn). Costs went up a bit due to a slight miscalculation in the materials needed, especially sealant (err, do you to truckload deals on that?) but I can't complain considering it's still miles cheaper than it would be to get someone in. Even just after sealing gaps in the existing walls and boarding up the window + vents the room became reassuringly quiet, especially for the noticeable lack of low-frequency rumbling from passing HGVs. I'm excited to see what happens when the room-in-room is finished and doors fitted

 

[knightfly]

Sooo, Conan, did "Der Fuerer" let you into Amerika or are you still in Merrie Auld Engl-and? I'm glad you got something from the discussion, hope the rest goes well for you... Steve

 

[guy1511]

Stephen Spielberg

Kinght,
I am currious, what is stephen's phone number, I would like to call him and get a reference

 

[knightfly]

Guy, I take it you're just joining this thread? I'm sorry but it's not ME that pals around with Stephen - however, Rod's the guy who built the studio where Amistaad was filmed - he was told by Stephen that it was the quietest studio he'd ever worked in, with the least amount of overdubs required because of that.... Steve

 

[Rod Gervais]

he was told by Stephen that it was the quietest studio he'd ever worked in, with the least amount of overdubs required because of that....

Steve,

Actually he said no redubs were required - and that this was the only studio he ever filmed in where he could say that - lol.......... just keeping the record straight - don't want anyone thinking I do shoddy work.

Guy,

He and I do not stay in contact - we never developed the relationship beyond that conversation - so I do not have his phone number......... but (and I mean no offense when I say this) if anyone here did have his number - it would be rather foolish of them to give it out to someone they just knew from the internet.

Good luck,

Rod

 

[knightfly]

Sorry Rod, it's been a while since we talked on the phone, and we always cover so much i'd forgotten your exact comments - as far as "shoddy", I'll leave that to the "experts" who're calling you an idiot because you won't recommend cheap-ass foam for their "long pig barbeque"... Steve

 

[fitZ2]

"long pig barbeque"

Steve, you slay me.

 

[knightfly]

Hey Fitz - wondered if anyone remembered that phrase -

"Steve, you slay me" - Sooo, does that mean you're volunteering, hmmm??!?

:=)>

 

[conan]

Nope, still in the England which I can assure you is neither merrie nor auld. I'm actually moving to Taiwan in two years; for some masochistic reason a Studio Project Mk II shall be forthcoming, so hopefully I will learn something from the 'test run' here in England.

Sooo, Conan, did "Der Fuerer" let you into Amerika or are you still in Merrie Auld Engl-and? I'm glad you got something from the discussion, hope the rest goes well for you... Steve