Bouncing to Tape?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Giganova
  • Start date Start date
Giganova said:
I was thinking about using either a tube pre or compressor to drive the signal into slight tube distortion. I understand that this is different than using a tape recorder, but it could give an 'analog' sound & feel without the hassle of tapes (alignment of tape, head cleaning, servicing, etc).
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Agreed in principle. I often use my ProVLA for such a purpose as well.

Again, though - and I'll admit that the character of this changes from machine to machine - the degree of warmth is to some degree proportional to the type and level of compression applied. Don't expect to run the signal through a compressor at zero compression "just to run it through the tubes" and get the kind of warmth you're looking for. Sometimes you might get lucky and it will be "right" if you do that. Other times you'll find that the degree of warming you're looking for just isn't there unless you boost the compression ratio or toggle between fast and slow attack.

At that point in the production you gotta decide if there is a trade-off and if it's cost is acceptable: is the amount and character of compression I'm using just to get that tube sound costing me too much in dynamics? If you have to compress the signal more or faster than is otherwise optimum for the master, are you losing in cost of dynamic range as much or more than you are gaining in warmth?

If that cost is too high, then it could be said that the compressor is the wrong tool for that job. You'll still want to use it for actual compression, probably, but you'll have to get the warmth from somewhere else. It's for those situations that analog tape can be a great solution; it can provide that "analog sound" without costing much at all in dynamics.

Now, however, I'd like to ask others to chime in who may have different or more experience with tube compressors than I. Perhaps my problem is with the dual design of the ProVLA? Is the fact that it uses both optical and tube circuitry the reason that I have the experience with it that I do, and that maybe some other pure tube compressors will warm better regardless of attack and ratio settings? I'd sure like to hear, and probably (hopefully) so would Giga (this is his thread, after all. :) )

G.
 
I didn't mean that a compresor was interchangable with a tape machine as far as the sound goes. What I meant was that either a real analog comp or preamp would sound better and be more useful than using a cheap tape deck ( or any cassette deck or VHS etc...). Basically, tape rocks, but only on solid capable machines. Other than that I think it destroys things. I guess its a lot like digital. The good stuff sounds great. The not so good stuff just sounds.
 
xstatic said:
I guess its a lot like digital. The good stuff sounds great. The not so good stuff just sounds.
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Oooh, that has to be one of the wisest things I've seen posted on this forum. Very good! :)

G.
 
Assuming a well maintained and properly aligned machine:

1/4" 15ips= ok
1/2" 15ips= good
1/2" 30ips= best
 
gtrman_66 said:
Assuming a well maintained and properly aligned machine ...
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That's exactly why I hesitate to get a tape recorder! Its hard (at least for me) to judge if a tape recorder is well mentained or a piece of crap (in which case I would waste a lot of money coz I'm not able to fix it). By just looking at the heads, could I see if thy are in OK shape? What would I be looking for (scratches, wear)?
 
Looking at the heads for excess wear is a good start. Sometimes professional tape recorders will be sold with a report from a maintenence facility detailing head life remaining etc. It is most certainly buyer beware on a lot of these old tape machines so research and careful shopping are in order. some of the guys hanging out in the analog forum can probably tell you a lot more than I can.

But ahhhh, the sound of a great analog mixdown unit can be hard to beat :D
 
You're right, Gig, it's not always easy to tell, even when you have the machine in front of you, unless you are a qualifies tech with the right instruments. There are a few things you can look for and do though.

- Who you getting it from? Is the guy (or gal) reputable; are they "just" an amateur audiophile (no insult intended by the "just") or are they a technician or dealer, etc.? How many owner has it gone through (can they account for the machine's history and give a decent estimate of how many hours are on it?) Is there any record of any refurbishing or maintenance (e.g. have the motors, heads, belts, or rollers been repaired or replaced?) And maybe most importantly, are they willing to offer any warranty or guarantee on it?

- It's not always possible to tell bad heads from good ones, but it is possible to spot *really* bad heads. Look on the surface of the head that makes contact with the tape. If you see any scratches, or if the surface has a "dull", un-polished look to it, that may not be the best sign (though that "polished" thing can be hard to tell for sure.) Look closely at the actual heads on the surface (you should usually see them as little rectangular shapes imbedded in the center of the larger curved surface); if the lines/gaps that outline the heads and seperate them from the head casing appear uneven or worn, that is probably a bad sign. If you can see the tape path outlined across the head surface; i.e. you can see the path and or edges where the tape actually travels because if dirt or wear on the head, that is an awful sign.

- A bit easier to tell, though still requiring a close look, is to look at the capstan and pinch roller (the two "wheels" between which the tape runs and that actually guide the tape through the head mechanism at the proper speed). Is the rubber brittle or cracked? Bad thing. Is the rubber "grooved" either physically or dirt/clean-wise where the tape normallr runs? Bad thing. Are there obvious distortions in the shape of the rubber on these wheels (i.e. have they obviously gone out of round in any place)? Bad thing.

- Are the motors belt drive or direct drive? Try to stick with direct drive only, but if they are belt-drive, get the belts replaced if they have not been already in the recent past.

It's not a bad idea to include in your budget a few bucks to take the machine in to a qualified repair tech to give it a once-over, to check it out. Have him demag the heads while he has it (you can do this yourself easily enough as spot maintenance, but it's not a bad idea to have the tech do it while he has the machine) and maybe most important, make sure the heads are aligned properly.

Boy, I'll be you right now that tube compressor is looking a whole lot more attractive.... :D

G.
 
a lot of tube pre's have line inputs for just this purpose. And you thought they were just for bass!
 
ecktronic, I think the stats you posted were of a VHS player or whatever you call it, not an actual VHS tape
 
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