Blending Drum Samples with Recorded Drums

  • Thread starter Thread starter AshX
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If you knock on the shell of the drum, that is the frequency that the drum wants to be. I tune the top head to that and the bottom head a little lower, to make the decay go down and die out. There are several other ways to do it, but that is the one that I use.

I tune the drums nearly every time I sit down to play them.
 
miroslav said:
But that's a different thing....
You can choose to record guitar while dangling from a five hundred foot cliff into as canyon, so you can get that BIG reverb sound that's "real"....just for the "satisfaction"....

....and the rest of us will add a digital "canyon" reverb to the dry sound after the fact, and move on. ;)

I mean, I'm all for everyone using whatever "mojo" makes them feel they're getting a better end-result....I just don't get THAT hung-up on everything being done in some purist style...just so I can say it was done in a purist style. :D

Like someone here said earlier....only engineers and musicians will get absorbed by the minutia that often has minimal impact on the end-result (I do it often), but if it makes you feel better, go for it.
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I was watching "It Might Get Loud" on Fuse, a documentary of sorts with Jack White, the Edge, and Jimmy Page, and one thing Jack White said struck me as completely off base, in my opinion. He asserted that "technology is the enemy of creativity." I completely disagree. Decades ago most of us wouldn't have been able to get a good drum sound, or as miroslav mentioned, get a great sounding grand piano, a string section, hundreds of synthesizers, and reverb without a reverb chamber or actual plate or going into a super expensive studio with funding from a record label. I've been a million times more creative because I've been able to play with new instruments, reverbs, delays, and so on and so forth that I couldn't have 15 years earlier.

I totally get that studios are still important tools, and I'm not trying to knock anyone who works at one, but it's always been a luxury that most musicians have not been afforded. I can't tell you guys how fucking amazing it is for me, just a 20 year old college kid, to be able to create stuff with just a microphone, interface, midi keyboard, computer, and DAW with plugins and VI software. If I had the choice to record at a real studio, with a real drum set, micing real amps, and have it sound good then of course I would. I think anyone would. But a lot of us don't have the money and God knows there aren't many record labels around willing to take a chance on or invest in up and coming bands unless they can twist them into their idea of a corporate rock machine or something they can "sell." Artist development is dead, so it's up us to invest in ourselves.

All that being said, do whatever makes you happy and does your music justice. I'm not seasoned veteran by any means, but I definitely respect anyone who has conviction, like musicians like Jack White and Trent Reznor, even if I disagree. As long as you could reasonably play all the instruments you are programming live, then I really don't see how anyone could argue that everything is fake. I mean hell, I'd play a violin if I still owned one.
 
Your'e right Miro about the listening public not knowing the difference. And they sure as hell don't care. I have a prejudice against singers who don't write their own songs. I still to this day, will not refer to people who do nothing but sing songs that someone else wrote, as artists. They are not artists. They are just people who sing. Do you think the public gives a damn about who actually wrote a song? I listened to the radio on my phone yesterday for the first time in a number of years. And I have to say that if the the shit I heard yesterday is an actual marker that can be used to judge society and this country, then we are in bad fucking shape! I was listening to the top twenty. If I'm ever responsible for writing anything like the kind of shit I heard yesterday, I want someone to take an axe and chop my fucking hands off! I've gotten a long way from the point I was trying to make, but it does kind of fit with what Miro said about the public not caring. I'll take it one step further and say that the reason the public doesn't care or know is because on the whole, they are a bunch of fucking morons and idiots! They are just the kinds of assholes that wouldn't know or care if someone replaced a drum part with a sample! LOL!
 
You are right Miro about the listening public not knowing the difference. And they sure as hell don't care. I have a prejudice against singers who don't write their own songs. I still to this day, will not refer to a person who sings only songs that someone else wrote, as an artist.. They are not artists. They are just people who sing. Do you think the public gives a damn about who actually wrote a song? I listened to the radio on my phone yesterday for the first time in a number of years. And I have to say that if the shit I heard yesterday is an actual marker that can be used to judge society and this country, then we are in bad fucking shape! I was listening to the top twenty. If I'm ever responsible for writing anything like the kind of shit I heard yesterday, I want someone to take an axe and chop my fucking hands off! I've gotten a long way from the point I was trying to make, but it does kind of fit with what Miro said about the public not caring. I'll take it one step further and say that the reason the public doesn't care is because on the whole, they are a bunch of fucking morons and idiots! They are just the kinds of assholes that wouldn't know or care if someone replaced a drum part with a sample! LOL!
 
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AshX said:
I was watching "It Might Get Loud" on Fuse, a documentary of sorts with Jack White, the Edge, and Jimmy Page, and one thing Jack White said struck me as completely off base, in my opinion. He asserted that "technology is the enemy of creativity."
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I've seen that documentary...and couldn't for the life of me figure out what the Edge was doing in it with a couple of real guitar players! ;)

Jack White is cool...I like his post-Stripes stuff...but he's also on major retro-recording kick, so that's where his mindset is at. A lot of it has to do with the style of music you are doing.
I mean, I like Techno a lot, and there's some really good Techno music (if you are into that sort of thing)...and it's a very technology-driven genre.

XploZiveToyz said:
I'll take it one step further and say that the reason the public doesn't care is because on the whole, they are a bunch of fucking morons and idiots! They are just the kinds of assholes that wouldn't know or care if someone replaced a drum part with a sample! LOL!
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I don't really think so. Yes, it's true that a lot of the general public is sucking on spam music all day long and loving it...but that's not the case for all. It really has to do with HOW we listen. The general public usually takes in the music as a whole...they are NOT preoccupied with the sound of the snare or was the piano a digital sample or a miked grand recorded live for the album.
I actually think that's a good thing....who needs thousands of critics discussing the snare sound on a song. :D
 
XploZiveToyz said:
You are right Miro about the listening public not knowing the difference. And they sure as hell don't care. I have a prejudice against singers who don't write their own songs. I still to this day, will not refer to a person who sings only songs that someone else wrote, as an artist.. They are not artists. They are just people who sing. Do you think the public gives a damn about who actually wrote a song? I listened to the radio on my phone yesterday for the first time in a number of years. And I have to say that if the shit I heard yesterday is an actual marker that can be used to judge society and this country, then we are in bad fucking shape! I was listening to the top twenty. If I'm ever responsible for writing anything like the kind of shit I heard yesterday, I want someone to take an axe and chop my fucking hands off! I've gotten a long way from the point I was trying to make, but it does kind of fit with what Miro said about the public not caring. I'll take it one step further and say that the reason the public doesn't care is because on the whole, they are a bunch of fucking morons and idiots! They are just the kinds of assholes that wouldn't know or care if someone replaced a drum part with a sample! LOL!
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First off, the top 40 has always kind of sucked because it was always targeted to people who like music but aren't really that into it. To people who write, record, perform, music is a way of life and a way of thinking. We are in the minority. Most normal people occupy themselves with other things and aren't dissecting everything they hear, looking for authenticity and true artistry. Only musicians and engineers do that, because that is what our life is based around and that is how we create. There is still a large percent of the population that thinks a band just goes into a studio, sets up, plays the songs and a CD pops out. They just don't know what goes into it. There is no reason for them to know, or even be interested.

As with most things, it really doesn't matter how you do something, as long as it gets done and serves the purpose it was designed for.
 
I have no problem with modern production at all. I have said it before, the struggle that people have with the morality of using "fake stuff" is completely silly to me.

I have no issue with a compromise when I'm getting paid to do something, and the example I posted was exactly that.

How do you do a modern production with a drum set complete with worn heads (or stock in the case of the reso heads and one of the kick heads), all wuhan cymbals and a stoned drummer?

The answer is you don't (at least not on the cheap). You record his vision/arrangement of how the drums should sound and then replace and fix that with sounds that are good staying true to the arrangement.
 
My last post might have come off a little preachier than I meant. I succumb to this myself. IM working on a musical theater cast album. All the instruments were done on keyboards and virtual instruments. I decided that it would sound much better with live drums and real guitars, so I recorded them.

Turns out that the real guitars don't really work in the context of the songs like the synth guitars do. The composer told me that he really wasn't thinking of them as guitars, but more of a sound that changes the texture of the piano that plays the same part.

The drums are actually being used, but I needed to replace the snare in some of the songs because the snare I used doesn't sound like the composer wants it to.
 
Don't get me wrong...The Edge is cool....U2 is cool....but he's not much of a guitar player *when you put him next the likes of Page and White*.

He's does the whole rhythm thing real good, and makes obscene use of reverb and delays, delays, delays....:)
He fits U2 well, but I don't think I ever heard him do any lead lines.
Page and White can play rhythm real good too, but they can also rip them single notes.
 
The Edge was probably asking himself that same question when he was asked to appear on that show. He most likely knows and admits that he isn't that good of a guitar player. But it's that lack of not having a whole lot of natural ability, playing wise, that caused him to develop a way of playing that became uniquely his own, and worked well within the context of U2's songs, and has now evolved into a "style" of sorts. As the old saying goes."Necessity is the mother of all invention!"
 
What am I missing with White? Guy does nothing for me as a guitarist.
 
Guitargodgt said:
What am I missing with White? Guy does nothing for me as a guitarist.
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I neither.. Guess it is not for everyone to enjoy. Sloppy, and well more sloppy. I suppose many other 'classic' guitar players were the same. I'm just going to call this a genre thing.

BTW, never was a Led Zep fan either..
 
miroslav said:
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Yeah this is mostly cringe worthy for me. Mark me down as someone who just doesn't get White.

I like Zeppelin though. Black Dog is one of the coolest guitar riffs of all time in my book. Kashmir gets a vote as second fav from that band.
 
I agree, great riffs. And there was personality in the playing of Jimmy Page. He was also able to hit a note in tune when using a slide.

How the hell White get's cred for being tone deaf, I will never know. Didn't 'The Edge' notice that? lol

My opinion only, but what the hell? It does not sound good to me.....Not sure how it could.
 
Well...if you're looking for Joe Satriani.....White ain't him (neither is Page for that matter)....but White can carry the stage solo, and that's just the style of slide playing in that video...raw and full of emotion, and while it may sound "sloppy", it takes skill to play slide well and do a solo guitar act (I don't much count Meg's drumming as anything of value).

To put it in perspective....here's the same song done by the guy who originally wrote it and played it - Son House. When you listen to him...he sounds ten times sloppier than White....yet it was guys like Son House that inspired the likes of Page and Clapton etc.
This is what Delta Blues often sounds like....you have go beyond just pure "technique" to appreciate it.
If you want technique, listen to Satriani. ;)

AFA the Edge....I doubt he could single-handedly play & entertain a crowd the way White does.
I'm not some Jack White fanatic or anything, but as I said earlier, he's into that very raw/retro/roots sound these days instead of the more modern "metal shred" playing, which I tend to find excruciatingly boring to listen to...it's just so lifeless...but that's just my opinion.
White has gotten a lot of kudos for his style of playing and production....just sayin'.

Here's Son House:


 
Well, I must say that puts it into perspective. I still would rather hear a bit more accuracy in any performance. Maybe that is just the anal side of me. I still hear things that I would label as 'issues' when I hear Jack White's stuff. Maybe he is trying to go for a rough sound. Sounds like lazy to me. Again, this is just my opinion and may be that I don't fall into the played shitty for emotion thing. I have heard raw tracks from Brian May that sounded a bit out, but he hit the notes that count. I bet Edge never hits an out of tune note, cuz he only plays 3 of them. lol
 
Hey...I'm a bit anal too about hitting the right notes...:).....though there's something exciting at times about the "train wreck" style of playing *IF* you can pull off the delivery and make it very believable, and I think White gets away with that...I mean, you can hear the crowd react positively (and they certianly heard the same playing we did in the video).

Even the timming is off between him and the drums....you can hear it when they do the tempo transitions, there's always a couple of measures where they are out of sync...but I think that's just how the White Strips always performed live.
If you find the same songs on their studio videos.....the raw emotion just ain't there.

They did a two song medley at the Grammys a few years back (you can find it on YT)....they did "Seven Nation Army" and the one in the video I posted, "Death Letter"...and they brought the house down.
I saw it, and was quite impressed with the powerful delivery, and that's what the crowd keyed off of.
 
I got to listen to some old multi tracks of some nirvana junk (not on youtube surprisingly) at my old internship and couldn't believe how out of tune Kirk's guitars were on the track. PAINFULLY BAD.

Yet I like the music, go figure.
 
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