Blending Drum Samples with Recorded Drums

  • Thread starter Thread starter AshX
  • Start date Start date
Fairview, I went to your site and listened to some of your stuff. You do good work my friend. Keep it up! And no, I wouldn't even venture to take a guess which is which because I'd probably be wrong. Which is precisely my point. The audience can't tell, so why do we do all the extra work that we do to record drums when there is an easier, faster way? I used to do some stuff in Nashville with Trace Atkin's drummer on occasion and I noticed that when he played live he used an Alesis SR-16 drum machine as a trigger on his real drums. When he hit his drum heads it would trigger drum samples from the Alesis. I never asked him why he did that. I assume the audience heard a blend of his real drums and the samples. Does anyone know why he did this? On a side note; I still have an Alesis SR-16 drum machine and it works as well today as it did the day I bought it at a NAMM show in Nashville at least 15 years ago. And that thing made many a quality demo! I now have EZ Drummer, The drums that Native Instruments put out, as well as Battery 4. So I'm up to my neck in quality samples. I think real drumming in the studio is going to go the way of the horse and buggy. What is your opinions my esteemed associates? LOL!
 
Pantera and a bunch of metal bands do that as well. It's mainly for consistency with an added bonus of being able to load up the sounds that were actually used for the recording of the song you are now playing live. Also no feedback, this is a big deal with one band I can think of because they essentially set up in front of the PA system.
 
Check it out guys! Jimmy worked his magic!

Without Samples (Before):

With Samples (After):
 
Here is my 100% replaced example. Raw drums were not done to a click, replaced drums fallow a click. The drumset was a 6 piece nightmare (2 kick) with one of the kick drums sporting heads as old as Jesus. Also, IIRC the top hoop on the snare was cocked, as in one side was tightened down so hard the hoop was almost flush with the bearing edge. :laughings: Full replacement it was. :spank:



 
Yep, it can be done. Complete replacement isn't IMO the best idea ever (genre dependent), but when needed, it can save a project. Damage control...
 
Farview said:
Only musicians and engineers care about how the song is recorded, listeners just care if they like the song or not.
Click to expand...

Spot on!

I'm also using Drumagog. I'm usely doing metal/hardrock and therefor always replacing the snare and kickdrum - sometimes also the toms (depending on the drumset and recording situation)

IMO Drumagog equals Drum-a-god :D
 
And I'm left wondering why we even go to all the trouble of recording real drums anymore since samples are in essence, nothing more than real drum sounds recorded digitally, same as the "real" drums! I see no rational reason to keep on doing something that no longer needs to be done. Of course this is just my opinion, but until you're able to change it, it's basically the law of the land! LOL!
 
XploZiveToyz said:
And I'm left wondering why we even go to all the trouble of recording real drums anymore since samples are in essence, nothing more than real drum sounds recorded digitally, same as the "real" drums! I see no rational reason to keep on doing something that no longer needs to be done. Of course this is just my opinion, but until you're able to change it, it's basically the law of the land! LOL!
Click to expand...
No matter how well you do with samples, a real drum is capable of more variation of tone and feel. With a nice, well tuned drum set played by a great player, there is no need to replace anything and the recording will be more alive.

Of course, for certain genres, robotics timing and sonic consistency is necessary. For that type of music, you are better off programming the parts and playing samples.

The other cool thing about recording a real drum set is the real drummer that is playing it. If he's good and knows the part, he can perform a five minute song in about five minutes. Programming a five minute song will take a lot longer than that.
 
Perhaps I'm a bit too much of a purist, but the whole "completely replace my drum sound with a sample of someone else's" strikes me as fraudulent.
 
Since we're on the subject of drums, I have a question that Iv'e often pondered over the course of years that make up my life, but was always too lazy to ask anyone or to investigate. The question is this: how does one tune drums, and how often does it need to be done? Also, Jimmy and Ashx, the drums do sound a lot better now. Good job Jimmy.
 
Farview said:
If he's good and knows the part, he can perform a five minute song in about five minutes.
Click to expand...

And that's often a big thing.
Being able to play the rhythm well to a song shouldn't be a problem for any decent drummer. Knowing exactly where each roll, fill, accent has to go in a song....that takes some practice and communication with the production people involved.

If I'm going to bring a drummer in just to "play the beat" and do basic rolls/fills/accents as he feels them....that's easy, but if I wanted more specific stuff, I'm left editing or spending as much time working it out with the drummer, who may not be able to or be interested in spending a few hours rehearsing every single fill/accent to fit the song...not to mention, if all he's listening to are basic scratch tracks, he has NO idea what the production is that I'm hearing in my head...so then all that has to be explained, and can be tedious...maybe more tedious than just programming samples.

With a whole band....they should already know all of that, so then as long as the drummer delivers...it's much better going with the recorded kit in most cases, instead of using samples...but samples and sample replacement is used more than many of us realize in commercial productions these days. :D



ibleedburgundy said:
Perhaps I'm a bit too much of a purist, but the whole "completely replace my drum sound with a sample of someone else's" strikes me as fraudulent.
Click to expand...

Yeah...but what about synths instead of real instruments....digital pianos instead of miked grand pianos...etc.

I think when people get past all that "is it real" stuff and just view it as a "production"....it just doesn't matter. No one is going to NOT buy your music 'cus there's drum samples on the songs. :)
 
I can understand why you may feel that way ibleeedburgundy, but it's really not. Think about this: drum samples are made by digitally recording a real drum being hit. A sample is just a digital recording of a drum being hit. When recording the drum parts during tracking, it is done digitally. Same as the samples. A drum hit recorded digitally is a drum hit recorded digitally is a drum hit recorded digitally. Get the point? I know exactly how you feel though. I still haven't completely come to terms with the fact that the days of using 24 channel/track, two inch analogue tape to record music with are just about over. LOL!
 
miroslav said:
Yeah...but what about synths instead of real instruments....digital pianos instead of miked grand pianos...etc.

I think when people get past all that "is it real" stuff and just view it as a "production"....it just doesn't matter. No one is going to NOT buy your music 'cus there's drum samples on the songs. :)
Click to expand...

I will gladly relinquish the massive commercial market that exists for my music (sarcasm) in the interest of the existential satisfaction of actually playing my own music and creating my own sounds.

As for digital pianos, that's an interesting analogy.
 
XploZiveToyz said:
I still haven't completely come to terms with the fact that the days of using 24 channel/track, two inch analogue tape to record music with are just about over. LOL!
Click to expand...

HEY!!! :mad:

I'm still using a 2" tape deck. It ain't over just yet! :D


Oh....there is a new, nifty tool for tuning drums. It's not the pressure gauge thingy a lot of drummers currently use...but an actual tuner that will let you tune drums very precisely to specific frequencies.

Tune-bot Drum Tuner

You still have to know WHAT kind of drum sound you are after when picking your frequencies per drum....but that little baby makes it easier to get the drum in perfect tune to that frequency at each lug.
I plan on getting one....it's not that expensive and will save you time, and also allow you to change the tuning faster.
 
ibleedburgundy said:
I will gladly relinquish the massive commercial market that exists for my music (sarcasm) in the interest of the existential satisfaction of actually playing my own music and creating my own sounds.
Click to expand...

But that's a different thing....
You can choose to record guitar while dangling from a five hundred foot cliff into as canyon, so you can get that BIG reverb sound that's "real"....just for the "satisfaction"....

....and the rest of us will add a digital "canyon" reverb to the dry sound after the fact, and move on. ;)

I mean, I'm all for everyone using whatever "mojo" makes them feel they're getting a better end-result....I just don't get THAT hung-up on everything being done in some purist style...just so I can say it was done in a purist style. :D

Like someone here said earlier....only engineers and musicians will get absorbed by the minutia that often has minimal impact on the end-result (I do it often), but if it makes you feel better, go for it.
 
Thanks for that info Miro. But how do you decide which frequency to tune it to? Do drums have alternate tunings like a guitar? After playing music with drummers for over 30 years now, I can honestly say that I've never seen or heard a drummer tune a set of drums. I've seen them take that little key/tool out and make a few adjustments to a few of the lug nuts, but never actually do a complete tuning.
 
Each drummer has his "sound" and how he likes the drums to interact...so there's no absolute rule, but you can only go up/down as much as each drum will allow-----and still have it sound good, but there's enough there for personal choices.

Check out the videos on the Tune-bot website....it gives you a quick idea of not just how their tuner works...but also what it takes to tune a kit.
 
You don't necessarily have to replace it with someone else's kit. You can sample yours, right after you replace the heads and get it tuned perfectly. you can also take those samples and eq and compress them without that processing making the bleed sound strange.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top