"Beautiful", pop'ish 'love' song :)

  • Thread starter Thread starter austinm08
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austinm08

austinm08

the pigeon knows the way.
"Beautiful" - new mix (pop-rock)

So, it's been awhile since I've been active here. Or, was I ever that active? :eek:
BUT, I'm getting back into the recording world.. getting my head back on straight after running in circles a bit trying to figure out what I'm supposed to do in life.
(oh and by the way, I'm not finished recording this song, yet!)

Mix 3 (vastly better, still needs improvement):

Mix 2 (slightly better): http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=569295&songID=8617883
Mix 1 (eww): http://www.soundclick.com/bands/page_songInfo.cfm?bandID=569295&songID=8614336

What do you guys think of this song?
-vocals
-mix
-arrangement
-etc

I could use some help in the EQ department the most, I think. For a while this song was sounding "empty" and "meatless" to me. Earlier on (before this mix) I had too much bass and treble and it seemed like it was lacking in the mids.

But anyway, I think it's a tad better now after adding some distorted rhythm guitar.

Thanks for listening and commenting!
 
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Hi austinm08,

I'm fairly new to mixing so I can't offer a great deal of advice/critique on that front, but give me a few years and I'll give you a confident answer :) What I can say that there doesn't seem to be much bottom end going on there. I notice you said that you backed it off - I think maybe a touch too far.

I really like the tone of your voice, and it's good that you have it sitting front and centre. The melody of the song is nice, and I do like your harmonies, but I kinda baulk at the chorus because the chords are an inverse of that ever present I - V - Vi- iV that seems to crop up in every second song these days. I'm not saying it's a bad choice necessarily, and a lot of people wouldn't notice or care, it's just that I tend to mentally switch off whenever I hear it. But don't get me wrong - it's a nice song :)
 
Paulie Jay said:
Hi austinm08,

I'm fairly new to mixing so I can't offer a great deal of advice/critique on that front, but give me a few years and I'll give you a confident answer :) What I can say that there doesn't seem to be much bottom end going on there. I notice you said that you backed it off - I think maybe a touch too far.

I really like the tone of your voice, and it's good that you have it sitting front and centre. The melody of the song is nice, and I do like your harmonies, but I kinda baulk at the chorus because the chords are an inverse of that ever present I - V - Vi- iV that seems to crop up in every second song these days. I'm not saying it's a bad choice necessarily, and a lot of people wouldn't notice or care, it's just that I tend to mentally switch off whenever I hear it. But don't get me wrong - it's a nice song :)
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Paulie, thanks so much for taking a listen. Okay, I'll have to listen to it on some more sets of speakers (only using my monitoring headphones and surround sound unit right now. The surround sound unit is so far from having a flat response... but the headphones are nice.

Thanks for the compliments on my voice. As for the chorus, the chord progression is the exact same for the verse :\ Something I don't normally like to do, but it just happened for this one.

Wouldn't the progression of this be: vi - IV - I - V ?
I see why you would call it an inverse of that. :P Should I get more creative with my chord progressions? :p Sometimes I cringe when I hear it used in songs left and right, too. I guess I got lazy.

Anyway, I really appreciate your advice/ideas!
 
Dig it!

A couple things to try:

The fuzzo guitar: can you double it, and pan the two tracks far L&R, with a couple MS' difference? It could have a lot more impact in the wings, instead of center, I think.

The strings need to play the whole field to be effective; that is, arranged across at least 50 degrees L&R...like you're sitting in front of the orchestra...those fills should envelop the listener when used.

A Tori Amos meets Ne-Yo thing. Like it!

The advice I'd give [based on insufficient expertise -caveat emptor] is to work on making the parts you arrange broadcast effectively when they play in the mix. You got some nice ideas..but I had to search for them, when they should have spilled over me....like wide strings and guitar orchestration across the field.
 
nice voice..and song


i think it needs a bit more work, i found the vocals sitting on top of it all...

the distrorted guitar sounded too thin...I think it needs some duplication to fatten it out..also the claps etc are too quiet and so is the acoustic

bring the vocals down a bit and see if it makes everything more cohesive??? then work on the guitar


just tweaking to get it all sounding nice imho
 
That we agree is a good thing for me....I can actually discern stuff! Some, anyway...
 
jeffmaher said:
The fuzzo guitar: can you double it, and pan the two tracks far L&R, with a couple MS' difference? It could have a lot more impact in the wings, instead of center, I think.
Click to expand...

Do you mean the same signal, slightly delayed on one side?

Double tracking would be a much better option IMO.
 
Oh yeah! Record another identical part...much better idea...didn't know if you'd prefer doing it on the cheep. Admire your work ethic!
 
haha im so lazy i cut up the original part then comp it back together again, then stick it through a different amp setting in the software...prolly takes me longer than retracking it :D
 
jeffmaher said:
Dig it!

A couple things to try:

The fuzzo guitar: can you double it, and pan the two tracks far L&R, with a couple MS' difference? It could have a lot more impact in the wings, instead of center, I think.
Click to expand...
The funny thing is, the guitar is already doubled and there is a delay of 33.7 milliseconds on one of the electric guitar tracks. They're panned at < 45 and 45 > right now but I can spread them out some more! Maybe more delay, too, eh? First time I've used a software guitar amp, so I'll have to tweak it some more to find a good sound.

Okay okay, I just realized the delay on the one guitar track was at a 50% mix, so it was still playing at the original time and then adding in the delay on that same track.. I set it to 100% and increased the delay to 50ms. We'll see how that sounds.

The strings need to play the whole field to be effective; that is, arranged across at least 50 degrees L&R...like you're sitting in front of the orchestra...those fills should envelop the listener when used.
Click to expand...
Good advice here. The strings were at a < 33 and 77 > spread before.. but I'll just throw that up to < 100 and 100 >. I also doubled the stereo track, put a 110ms delay on the new one, and switched the L and R (again, stereo track). That should really enhance the "ambient" feel of the violin.

A Tori Amos meets Ne-Yo thing. Like it!

The advice I'd give [based on insufficient expertise -caveat emptor] is to work on making the parts you arrange broadcast effectively when they play in the mix. You got some nice ideas..but I had to search for them, when they should have spilled over me....like wide strings and guitar orchestration across the field.
Click to expand...
Awesome. Thank you for the advice.
============================

kcearl said:
nice voice..and song


i think it needs a bit more work, i found the vocals sitting on top of it all...
Click to expand...
I was worried about that, too. I'll try to get the vocals sitting more within the mix rather than surfing on top of it. :P

the distrorted guitar sounded too thin...I think it needs some duplication to fatten it out..also the claps etc are too quiet and so is the acoustic

bring the vocals down a bit and see if it makes everything more cohesive??? then work on the guitar
Click to expand...
Claps and acoustic too quiet.. okay. I was just worried about there being "too much" there as far as the acoustic goes.. which is why I turned it way down (originally it was only acoustic, no electric guitar). It was a lot "poppier" before.. not that it isn't now, but I added electric guitar rhythm in hopes of adding just a small pinch of rock flavor to it.


just tweaking to get it all sounding nice imho
===============================


Thank you guys so much. I really appreciate the help, and you taking the time to listen, even!
 
philbagg said:
Do you mean the same signal, slightly delayed on one side?

Double tracking would be a much better option IMO.
Click to expand...

That, I should do. It's early in the production (well... not really, but I can use that as my excuse, ay?) so I just wanted to see what an electric rhythm guitar would sound like in there. I'll probably double track it here soon (rather than just doubling the original signal and sliding to the right a bit, with different software amp settings).
 
I listened again, just to be sure I wasn't playing it in mono.

But, regardless of what the buttons say, the guit and string orchestration sounds clustered center. I'm listening, and thinking both parts would sound pretty good at 90%-ish. The piano is the widest thing I hear...

Hmmmm..
 
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jeffmaher said:
I listened again, just to be sure I wasn't playing it in mono.

But, regardless of what the buttons say, the guit and string orchestration sounds clustered center. I'm listening, and thinking both parts would sound pretty good at 90%-ish. The piano is the widest thing I hear...

Hmmmm..
Click to expand...
Yeah, what all the buttons and knobs say it should sound like doesn't always translate to what you really hear in the final mix.

I'm still doing some tweaking.. I'm going to retrack the electric guitar tracks and then hopefully post an updated mix soon.
 
Sounds good!

Sounds as good as anything I've ever heard featured on "Smallville", if you take that as a compliment.

Rusty
 
big improvement...i still think the vocals are sitting on top during the verses..Im not sure if reverb will help them sit in more or if its just because I remember the first mix so much...maybe some one else can say

the rest sounds much better...big difference on the electric and the acoustic's up where it should be..

good job :)
 
Rustywp said:
Sounds as good as anything I've ever heard featured on "Smallville", if you take that as a compliment.

Rusty
Click to expand...
I suppose I can.. I've never seen the show. Thanks.

kcearl said:
big improvement...i still think the vocals are sitting on top during the verses..Im not sure if reverb will help them sit in more or if its just because I remember the first mix so much...maybe some one else can say

the rest sounds much better...big difference on the electric and the acoustic's up where it should be..

good job :)
Click to expand...
Okay. I did lower them, but too much.. and decided to bring them back up a bit (still not as loud as the first mix). Maybe I'll lower them just a notch again. There is reverb on them.. but I may focus some more time on the vocals a bit later on.

I think the change in effects on the electric really made it sound warmer and less obtrusive (and also the fact that I double-tracked it, but only in the choruses).

Thanks, again :)
 
Wow! Aces!

It realizes a lot of the potential I heard trying to bust out of the mix....it swims, and lures the ear. Really like it.

OK..now I bust ba**s :^) .........kidding...but:

on the choruses.....there's a palpable lack of uptick in the dynamics....that is, the main diff between it and the verses is the melody and repeating couplets.....and the chorus is the hook.......it wants to have its own identity, and fill the heart, yadda.The electrics define the space real nice....but they lay out after the initial chug intro, and an element or two are conspicuous by absense.


A couple things I hear, for example:

A deep, resonating floor tom thud on beat 4 of every second measure in the chorus...stock technique; and a quarter-note bell ride with light improv to kick it up a notch. Just examples

A nice counterpoint line...a little busier than the chorus' melody line, [in the space between and just overlapping the vox pauses...eighths] could be used for good effect, I think: IIRC, the strings make a cameo somewhere in the middle, then disappear. They might have an important dynamic function to be discovered in the chorusus doing that duty??

One other thing...I hear a female voice over the chorus.....you could lift that....nice!

So much better!!!!
 
jeffmaher said:
Wow! Aces!

It realizes a lot of the potential I heard trying to bust out of the mix....it swims, and lures the ear. Really like it.

OK..now I bust ba**s :^) .........kidding...but:

on the choruses.....there's a palpable lack of uptick in the dynamics....that is, the main diff between it and the verses is the melody and repeating couplets.....and the chorus is the hook.......it wants to have its own identity, and fill the heart, yadda.The electrics define the space real nice....but they lay out after the initial chug intro, and an element or two are conspicuous by absense.


A couple things I hear, for example:

A deep, resonating floor tom thud on beat 4 of every second measure in the chorus...stock technique; and a quarter-note bell ride with light improv to kick it up a notch. Just examples

A nice counterpoint line...a little busier than the chorus' melody line, [in the space between and just overlapping the vox pauses...eighths] could be used for good effect, I think: IIRC, the strings make a cameo somewhere in the middle, then disappear. They might have an important dynamic function to be discovered in the chorusus doing that duty??

One other thing...I hear a female voice over the chorus.....you could lift that....nice!

So much better!!!!
Click to expand...
You're hilarious! :D
Ok, where to start..

So what exactly are you saying about the chorus? It needs to be much more epic and upbeat than is, to stick out above the verses?
Then for the electric guitars, you're saying they start off great but then disappoint after the initial "chug" intro of the chorus?

And you're hearing this other things in your head.. like the floor tom? So that would be during the clap on beat 4?

And you say you hear a female voice? That's me doing that, too. :laughings:
 
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