"Beautiful", pop'ish 'love' song :)

  • Thread starter Thread starter austinm08
  • Start date Start date
So what exactly are you saying about the chorus? It needs to be much more epic and upbeat than is, to stick out above the verses?

Somewhat more would be nice. Choruses are, by convention, bigger than the verses. Don't have to be, but it's natural, and began at the beginning of music.


Then for the electric guitars, you're saying they start off great but then disappoint after the initial "chug" intro of the chorus?

Hadn't thought of changing the guitar part...and I wouldn't; It's not the guitars that disappoint.....just a lack of other elements in addition to the guits' important function.

And you're hearing this other things in your head.. like the floor tom? So that would be during the clap on beat 4?

Exactly...every second measure after "beautiful"....SCHBLOOM!! Kinda like a Phil Collins thing...
but there are a hundred other things you could do....the bell ride and tom were the first that came to me.

And you say you hear a female voice? That's me doing that, too.

I figured... :^) But it would be nice to hear it a little more.

Listening once more, I also kinda thought the overall mix and/or selected tracks...like the guits...could have a good measure of HF edge. It's a bassie, middie mix.


I just went back again....the handclaps gots no 'snap'...don't sound like actual real claps. And that's about the highest freq playing to mark time. And I figured out that it's more that there are no cymbals, [that I can hear] than a woofie mix: there's precious little activity in the HF range....like a hat or other time-subdividing thing. Another convention......but I think an mixed quarter/eighth figure on a percussion device would be a good addition to parts you'd want to highlight and add momentum to....like the chorus.

I think you could shave mids from the claps, and shave the same from, and boost, the guits:

You've got lots of bass...the piano and guits working the mids along with the vox .......and handclaps. Need something up 4000 -12000 to round out the available potential, I think. That's what I'd do. Add some sizzle and interest.

If I thought the tune and recording sucked...I wouldn't bother you; it's exactly because I like the work as much as I do that I'm pursuading you to think beyond where your ears are at.....grab on to concepts and conventions that all appealing musical works have in-common. And when you have that much bottom on a record...it's good to counter it...oppose it...with something in the HF, generally.....it's a place of unused potential in this record.....if you think you want it to do more....your call, of course.
 
Your voice sounds young. Kinda off-putting for me, but you're a good singer.

The underlying mix sounds fine, although I agree that the vocals seem slightly detached.
 
jeffmaher said:
So what exactly are you saying about the chorus? It needs to be much more epic and upbeat than is, to stick out above the verses?

Somewhat more would be nice. Choruses are, by convention, bigger than the verses. Don't have to be, but it's natural, and began at the beginning of music.


Then for the electric guitars, you're saying they start off great but then disappoint after the initial "chug" intro of the chorus?

Hadn't thought of changing the guitar part...and I wouldn't; It's not the guitars that disappoint.....just a lack of other elements in addition to the guits' important function.

And you're hearing this other things in your head.. like the floor tom? So that would be during the clap on beat 4?

Exactly...every second measure after "beautiful"....SCHBLOOM!! Kinda like a Phil Collins thing...
but there are a hundred other things you could do....the bell ride and tom were the first that came to me.

And you say you hear a female voice? That's me doing that, too.

I figured... :^) But it would be nice to hear it a little more.

Listening once more, I also kinda thought the overall mix and/or selected tracks...like the guits...could have a good measure of HF edge. It's a bassie, middie mix.


I just went back again....the handclaps gots no 'snap'...don't sound like actual real claps. And that's about the highest freq playing to mark time. And I figured out that it's more that there are no cymbals, [that I can hear] than a woofie mix: there's precious little activity in the HF range....like a hat or other time-subdividing thing. Another convention......but I think an mixed quarter/eighth figure on a percussion device would be a good addition to parts you'd want to highlight and add momentum to....like the chorus.

I think you could shave mids from the claps, and shave the same from, and boost, the guits:

You've got lots of bass...the piano and guits working the mids along with the vox .......and handclaps. Need something up 4000 -12000 to round out the available potential, I think. That's what I'd do. Add some sizzle and interest.

If I thought the tune and recording sucked...I wouldn't bother you; it's exactly because I like the work as much as I do that I'm pursuading you to think beyond where your ears are at.....grab on to concepts and conventions that all appealing musical works have in-common. And when you have that much bottom on a record...it's good to counter it...oppose it...with something in the HF, generally.....it's a place of unused potential in this record.....if you think you want it to do more....your call, of course.
Click to expand...
Of course I want it to do more. Thank you so much for these added tips. I've been working on rewriting the bridge, so I'm working on getting that recorded for now.. just a rough take so I don't forget it. I'm definitely taking everything you're telling me and trying to learn a little from it. I'm a newbie when it comes to adding in this HF sparkle and shine to really make the song fill the cup to the brim.

For now, back to this bridge..

Seafroggys said:
Your voice sounds young. Kinda off-putting for me, but you're a good singer.

The underlying mix sounds fine, although I agree that the vocals seem slightly detached.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the compliment.. it's unfortunate that it's off-putting because it's a young-sounding voice, though.
 
Last edited:
The hand claps were really off putting - they also sound like the samples on my TR505 - and they took my ear away from the melody.
The voice does need to ride the mix rather than flaot above it. (a bit nasal - that may give the impression of youth).
A very good beginning - 2nd mix is an improvement. There does need to be more to differentiate the verse from the chorus than currently - think about rearranging the elements in the arrangement.
 
It's sounding really good now. I like the new version!

I agree that the choruses need to stand out more. In addition to the idea of the floor tom on the 4th beat you could also try a tambourine hit on the 2nd beat, or maybe every second 4th beat. Or perhaps add a really high keyboard or guitar part - just single notes A - Bb - A - G, in time with the chord changes. It doesn't have to be something complex - just something that only appears in the chorus to give it its own character.

I think this is coming along very nicely indeed :)
 
rayc said:
The hand claps were really off putting - they also sound like the samples on my TR505 - and they took my ear away from the melody.
The voice does need to ride the mix rather than flaot above it. (a bit nasal - that may give the impression of youth).
A very good beginning - 2nd mix is an improvement. There does need to be more to differentiate the verse from the chorus than currently - think about rearranging the elements in the arrangement.
Click to expand...
Might have to retrack vocals, then. Thanks for your input.. hopefully today I can figure something out for the chorus.

Paulie Jay said:
It's sounding really good now. I like the new version!

I agree that the choruses need to stand out more. In addition to the idea of the floor tom on the 4th beat you could also try a tambourine hit on the 2nd beat, or maybe every second 4th beat. Or perhaps add a really high keyboard or guitar part - just single notes A - Bb - A - G, in time with the chord changes. It doesn't have to be something complex - just something that only appears in the chorus to give it its own character.

I think this is coming along very nicely indeed :)
Click to expand...
Alright. Thanks, Paulie! I should have a lot of time today to work on it.
 
New mix: (VAST IMPROVEMENT!)



Sorry, I don't have time to say anything else at the moment. Gotta run. Just wanted to get this posted for now. It's still missing the all of the drums and yeah.. I just copied and pasted the chorus at the end.. just to get the basic layout of the song down.. but I will be going through everything again later.

Lots of tweaking still to do. I'm kind of cringing at the sound of the vocals in spots.

Thanks for listening, as always!
 
Vast is correct!

I like the bridge's vox melody...especially the high part about half way through... real inventive and memorable. And the arrangement's up and down dynamics...stops and starts...are nice to hear...artsy.

I also heard one easy tweak that would punch-up the chorus: the guitars and bass are hitting the 'and-of-two', anticipating; while the bass drum hits the 3. I think aligning the bass drum to hit the anticipation with the rest would bring the temp up a lot??? Or just adding a hit on the 'and'...resulting in a double tap on the bd....??? Unison in the anticipation would add a huge glob of strength, I think.

Real good and getting better!
 
It gets better each time I hear it :) I think we're in the realms of micro management now.

This is just a suggestion: at 2:35, at the breakdown I think it would be neat if you left the line "So where are you Miss Beautiful I've been waiting for you to come to my door" hanging:

"So where are you Miss Beautiful I've been waiting for yooooouuuuu..." and then let the chorus kick in.

The chorus does have it's own character now. Great progress.
 
Man, this is what I love about this place. The people here are great :D I can ask for some help and you guys are so willing to give it, and more than that, you continue to as I improve this tune. I'm so thankful for that.

jeffmaher said:
Vast is correct!

I like the bridge's vox melody...especially the high part about half way through... real inventive and memorable. And the arrangement's up and down dynamics...stops and starts...are nice to hear...artsy.

I also heard one easy tweak that would punch-up the chorus: the guitars and bass are hitting the 'and-of-two', anticipating; while the bass drum hits the 3. I think aligning the bass drum to hit the anticipation with the rest would bring the temp up a lot??? Or just adding a hit on the 'and'...resulting in a double tap on the bd....??? Unison in the anticipation would add a huge glob of strength, I think.

Real good and getting better!
Click to expand...
Dynamics are important!

About the kick on the 'and-of-two', YES, I totally agree. I had actually thought about this, and I will admit, I am using a predefined "groove" in EZDrummer.. and I could not find one that had the exact beat I needed.. with the kick on that beat and then the rest of the groove fitting as well. I'll have to go in and do it manually. :P Just didn't have time earlier. heh. Good pointing that out, though!

Your help in this project has been invaluable. Have I said that already? If I didn't say it before, I was thinking it.

Paulie Jay said:
It gets better each time I hear it :) I think we're in the realms of micro management now.

This is just a suggestion: at 2:35, at the breakdown I think it would be neat if you left the line "So where are you Miss Beautiful I've been waiting for you to come to my door" hanging:

"So where are you Miss Beautiful I've been waiting for yooooouuuuu..." and then let the chorus kick in.

The chorus does have it's own character now. Great progress.
Click to expand...
Great idea, Paulie.. I hadn't considered that at all.. I may just have to do that. :) Thanks for the help again!
 
After your reply to my new post, I thought I'd sniff around to see if you had posted anything, and I found this gem! Great work, man.

I especially love the way you've recorded that acoustic guitar... Sounds so bright, clean, and in-your-face, yet it doesn't overpower the mix.

I feel like I'm swimming in this song, and I can feel the meaning in the lyrics.

Good stuff, bro. Keep at it!

(I liked your "Cat" tune, too... That "meow" panning from hard right to hard left kinda freaked me out, but it fit quite well!) :D
 
PoeticIntensity said:
After your reply to my new post, I thought I'd sniff around to see if you had posted anything, and I found this gem! Great work, man.

I especially love the way you've recorded that acoustic guitar... Sounds so bright, clean, and in-your-face, yet it doesn't overpower the mix.

I feel like I'm swimming in this song, and I can feel the meaning in the lyrics.

Good stuff, bro. Keep at it!

(I liked your "Cat" tune, too... That "meow" panning from hard right to hard left kinda freaked me out, but it fit quite well!) :D
Click to expand...
I just refreshed the Mixing Clinic tab in my browser and saw that there was a new post in this thread '3 Minutes Ago'.. and was like WHAT THE HECK?!?!!

Thanks a lot for the compliments. I still to this day haven't been able to get this recording where I want it, but I'm holding on to hope that I can finish this one day *hands clasped*... :)

My brother wrote that "Cat" tune, pretty fun to record over a Christmas break once. heh.
 
I've listened to Beautiful V5 about fifteen times now, and I can't help but hear the potential for this song.

You have a nice voice, you enunciate well, but in quite a few areas you're a bit pitchy, slightly flat on occasion, and because the song has a very airy, light feel to it these vocal imperfections stand out greatly.

It is likely you could capture the fuller depth of your voice if you recorded yourself with your head slightly tilted upwards, with the microphone just above an imaginary line you'd draw through the center of your mouth and the back of your head. 2-3 degrees here. That would force you to open your throat a little bit and your voice would sound fuller. That may not be the sound you are after, but it's typically what would be done.

Because your voice is very airy, I would balance that with a bit more bass guitar, maybe a fretless, with a few finger rolls into chorus and such, acting as a lead-in, slightly melodic but still leaving your voice as the primary instrument, which should be the case.

While the acoustic guitar is crisp, I don't hear the wood. That's what gives an acoustic instrument it's sound - the wood, the glue, the tenons and joints, the resonance - it's just about all gone. That's another way to make a song such as this have more "feel" or "fullness" - using up some more of the 20-20Khz audio spectrum with naturally occuring tone from acoustic instruments such as piano and guitar.

I did not read your entire thread, I simply jumped to V5 and clicked play.

I love the electric guitar in the beginning, it's bright and playful, but it sets a mood that isn't delivered when the chorus comes up immediately after - that guitar almost disappears.

I'm curious, how did you record each instrument? On what? With what? How did you record your voice? Did you use a stand?

Again, I'm not bagging your song, I think this is a GOOD song, even though the recording needs a bit of work.
 
frederic said:
I've listened to Beautiful V5 about fifteen times now, and I can't help but hear the potential for this song.

You have a nice voice, you enunciate well, but in quite a few areas you're a bit pitchy, slightly flat on occasion, and because the song has a very airy, light feel to it these vocal imperfections stand out greatly.

It is likely you could capture the fuller depth of your voice if you recorded yourself with your head slightly tilted upwards, with the microphone just above an imaginary line you'd draw through the center of your mouth and the back of your head. 2-3 degrees here. That would force you to open your throat a little bit and your voice would sound fuller. That may not be the sound you are after, but it's typically what would be done.

Because your voice is very airy, I would balance that with a bit more bass guitar, maybe a fretless, with a few finger rolls into chorus and such, acting as a lead-in, slightly melodic but still leaving your voice as the primary instrument, which should be the case.

While the acoustic guitar is crisp, I don't hear the wood. That's what gives an acoustic instrument it's sound - the wood, the glue, the tenons and joints, the resonance - it's just about all gone. That's another way to make a song such as this have more "feel" or "fullness" - using up some more of the 20-20Khz audio spectrum with naturally occuring tone from acoustic instruments such as piano and guitar.

I did not read your entire thread, I simply jumped to V5 and clicked play.

I love the electric guitar in the beginning, it's bright and playful, but it sets a mood that isn't delivered when the chorus comes up immediately after - that guitar almost disappears.

I'm curious, how did you record each instrument? On what? With what? How did you record your voice? Did you use a stand?

Again, I'm not bagging your song, I think this is a GOOD song, even though the recording needs a bit of work.
Click to expand...

Thanks for instilling some more motivation in me to come back to this song. I've had a lot of trouble getting it where I want it, and I almost think I need to start completely over and redo everything.

I loved that guitar sound, too. The truth is I got that sound recording a clean electric guitar direct into my audio interface and using a software guitar amp within Pro Tools. That electric is still there throughout the chorus, but I guess it does drop off quite a bit.

As for the acoustic, maybe I just didn't want it to get in the way of my voice too much. I can't remember if I EQ'ed out low-mids or what, but maybe that was it?

I don't think anything was mic'ed other than my voice. I used an AKG Perception 100, but since then I have sold that and upgraded to a Perception 420.
I did use a stand, and a pop filter. I may have been sitting down when I sang, as I often do. Sometimes I stand, which is probably what I should be doing, eh?

I'll keep all these things in mind if/when I get back to this project. I'm really thinking I'll just start over, though, because my session is such a mess of tracks and .wav files that aren't even being used.. it's a bit overwhelming. That on top of the low confidence that usually comes over me anyway, after working on a song for so long, just made me want to forget about it for a while. heh

I wish I had better musicians to record for all the parts. My songs are limited so much because it's me on everything, and I know I'm not the best with a guitar, piano, bass, and with coming up with drump parts, etc. But hey, I try.

Again, thanks for the input! It really is a big help for me.
 
Damn

A guy could come around here and learn some shit about recording if he hung around long enough...:o

Nice work Austin
 
TAE said:
A guy could come around here and learn some shit about recording if he hung around long enough...:o

Nice work Austin
Click to expand...
Is that a response from my original post in this thread, when I said "or was I ever active?!"

haha. But this is true.

Thanks :)
 
I'm very impressed by the feedback / advice that is coming to many of the MP3 being posted..

It has really evolved from 5 years ago.. REALLY cool input..

Been a long time since I've been anywhere but the cave.. A lot of the people who posted here have a whole different persona over there.. lets say a bit on the edgy side.


Very pro here in the clinic and that is waaaaaaay cool.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top