Bass is weak

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Don't look at my recommendation, look at Somnium's original layout

good grief. .

 

[pandamonk]

good grief. .

Well mine is what i think the room stould be, but for how it is setup now.

 

[RICK FITZPATRICK]

Well mine is what i think the room stould be, but for how it is setup now.

Hey pandamonk, I don't get what you mean.
fitZ

 

[pandamonk]

Hey pandamonk, I don't get what you mean.
fitZ

Sorry, never mind about that point, it was really meant for Ethan. Incase he looked at my recommendation and saw the door behind the mixing position, not infront of it like it is now.

 

[Somnium7]

As to the "weak bass" reference...the more bass traps you add, your perception of "bass" in the room will improve, which allows you to mix with trust. When your room lies to you during recording(it colors the sound from the monitors, it lies to you again when you mix. Therefore, you never know how your mixes will "translate".

As far as the position of my mix location should I be using the .38 rule I read about?

.38 the length of the long wall

Now for bass traps what would be better the foam corner dealies or these...?
http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_244.html

How many of either would I need for my size room?
Bear in mind the corner with the door can't have anything that may block the door - it's the door to the back yard.

I am going to have some friends come by to record today and I trust their ears and intend to ask them what they hear. I'm wondering if they notice the same problem as me...

 

[pandamonk]

As far as the position of my mix location should I be using the .38 rule I read about?


Now for bass traps what would be better the foam corner dealies or these...?
http://www.gikacoustics.com/gik_244.html

How many of either would I need for my size room?
Bear in mind the corner with the door can't have anything that may block the door - it's the door to the back yard.

I am going to have some friends come by to record today and I trust their ears and intend to ask them what they hear. I'm wondering if they notice the same problem as me...

Yeah the .38 rule for where you're sitting.

I'd say you'd be better with the GIK ones, although you can make them yourself.

You might have to focus your bass trapping on the ceiling corners. It's not a problem though.

 

[Ethan Winer]

I can't believe, YET, that JUST two path lengths is the complete answer.

Believe it baby.

Seriously, it doesn't matter if you have a door that's open or an open passage with no door. With a normal rear wall, the entire wall surface reflects at the same time. This not only creates comb filter peaks and nulls, it also resonates based on the distance to the front wall.

If the back wall has an opening to another room or closet or whatever, you now have two reflections at different times. Hence the "QRD" analogy. Even if the opening goes outside and has no reflection at all, that still helps by reducing the total amount of reflected sound.

This is not rocket surgery!

--Ethan

 

[pandamonk]

Believe it baby.

Seriously, it doesn't matter if you have a door that's open or an open passage with no door. With a normal rear wall, the entire wall surface reflects at the same time. This not only creates comb filter peaks and nulls, it also resonates based on the distance to the front wall.

If the back wall has an opening to another room or closet or whatever, you now have two reflections at different times. Hence the "QRD" analogy. Even if the opening goes outside and has no reflection at all, that still helps by reducing the total amount of reflected sound.

This is not rocket surgery!

--Ethan

Yeah but Ethan, it's not the rear wall. It's the front and side walls.

 

[Ethan Winer]

Yeah but Ethan, it's not the rear wall. It's the front and side walls.

All openings are good.

At this point I feel I'm addressing a moving target, and looking at many different drawings of the same room made by three people.

If there's a coherent question in there I'll try to answer. Otherwise, carry on.

--Ethan

 

[pandamonk]

Believe it baby.

Seriously, it doesn't matter if you have a door that's open or an open passage with no door. With a normal rear wall, the entire wall surface reflects at the same time. This not only creates comb filter peaks and nulls, it also resonates based on the distance to the front wall.

If the back wall has an opening to another room or closet or whatever, you now have two reflections at different times. Hence the "QRD" analogy. Even if the opening goes outside and has no reflection at all, that still helps by reducing the total amount of reflected sound.

This is not rocket surgery!

--Ethan

I understand and believe your point, placing absorption panels on the back wall spaced apart does the same thing, but if there is a door that opens/an opening into another room, then doesn't that effectively add both together to make it like one big room? For example, my drum booth and vocal booth corridor. With the door open, it's effectively like a 12'x9' room with a big 10'x4' chunk out of it, and 2 1'x1' pillars.

 

[pandamonk]

All openings are good.

At this point I feel I'm addressing a moving target, and looking at many different drawings of the same room made by three people.

If there's a coherent question in there I'll try to answer. Otherwise, carry on.

--Ethan

Yeah, that's why i said don't look at my drawing recommendation.

Can they all have a QRD diffusion affect because of the omnidirectionality of bass? Isn't Rick's point also valid in that the second room/cupboard becomes a resonance chamber? I'll use my drum booth example again to explain. Obviously this is hugely simplistic, and bass travels omnidirectionally, but i couldn't draw the omnidirectional waves very well, especially reflecting.

 

[Somnium7]

This seems like a great opportunity to confuse the issue even more

Did I mention that the back storage room has a 5' X 3' tiled bathroom adjoining it? When I open both of those doors then what happens?

Seriously though, you guys have been a REALLY HUGE HELP so far. I've gone from scratching my head to actually having a semblance of a plan for dealing with the problems...
Financial constraints may dictate which actions I take at this point. I believe it would be interesting to study DIY bass traps since I am a DIY kinda dude.

 

[pandamonk]

This seems like a great opportunity to confuse the issue even more

Did I mention that the back storage room has a 5' X 3' tiled bathroom adjoining it? When I open both of those doors then what happens?

Seriously though, you guys have been a REALLY HUGE HELP so far. I've gone from scratching my head to actually having a semblance of a plan for dealing with the problems...
Financial constraints may dictate which actions I take at this point. I believe it would be interesting to study DIY bass traps since I am a DIY kinda dude.

With Ethan's QRD thing, it just makes the depth much larger, and therefore the effectiveness to much deeper frequencies. I suspect it's the same with Rick's, and with mine it makes it effectively one even larger room, changing the room response, modes, etc. I suspect the affect it has is all three. It's cerutainly not just QRD, because you can hear a complete change in reverb and room response(i noticed a huge change when i installed doors in the studio). It sound like a much bigger room with the open door/without a door.

 

[pandamonk]

This seems like a great opportunity to confuse the issue even more

Did I mention that the back storage room has a 5' X 3' tiled bathroom adjoining it? When I open both of those doors then what happens?

Seriously though, you guys have been a REALLY HUGE HELP so far. I've gone from scratching my head to actually having a semblance of a plan for dealing with the problems...
Financial constraints may dictate which actions I take at this point. I believe it would be interesting to study DIY bass traps since I am a DIY kinda dude.

Yeah DIY is good. What kind of budget do you have? What skills? My absorber design requires woodwork and sewing skills .

 

[Somnium7]

Yeah DIY is good. What kind of budget do you have? What skills? My absorber design requires woodwork and sewing skills .

Mostly I do electronics stuff. I have pretty decent metalworking skills using both hand tools and power... I was a Blacksmiths apprentice for awhile.

I guess the most involved thing I've done in wood besides high school shop projects was building speaker cabinets. I don't currently own any woodworking tools but I have an idea where I can borrow some.

I tried sewing when I was in the Navy. After failing a few uniform inspections I got wise and let my wife take care that part of my military career
But she is really damn good at it. Always got outstanding after she helped me.

Budget is an iffy question right now. I have some money but I am trying to decide where it is best utilized right now. Then there are a few unknown expenses I am waiting on quotes for. I'm hoping to have $300 - $400 for studio stuff this month once I factor in the unknowns I mentioned.