Basement studio thoughts

[AsciiRory]

I am just about ready to start building out my basement, half of which is going to be a small studio space.
I have a huge mixing board, a 40 ch DDA QII british console, which will be in a control room and a small recording space for when I add acoustic guitar, individual instruments and vocals. Also in the control room will be a Otari MTR12 4-track, 3 racks of equipment and a small producer's couch.
The live space will contain guitars/amps, my Yamaha S90XS keyboard, a large modular synth (home built), and my Moog Subsequent 37.

One question I am trying to figure out is what to do with the ceiling. Since it is a basement the ceiling is only 8 ft high. How should I finish it? Drywall, then acoustic diffusers and foam absorbers? Do I skip the drywall and build it/acoustic tile etc without?
Right now the whole room is bare framing and lower half is concrete block. Do I build out framing beyond the concrete or what? Suggestions?
I am not looking to completely soundproof the room, just improve acoustics. I like the LEDE (Live End/Dead End) technique so far.
In the end it is going to look a bit like a vintage gentleman's parlor (antique looking), comfortable and a bit dark.
Recording live is probably 25% of my time in studio; the rest is direct to tape and/or through the DDA and then to a focusrite A/D to a Mac running Cubase. Monitors are JBL LS308s and Eris E5s. I also have a pair of Bagnatti (?) Planar speakers and a subwoofer but not sure if I will use them for playback in the live room or just stick them in my living room.

Thoughts??

Regards
Rory
MackDaddy Studio

 

[Deleted member 196982]

I'd start by trying different dimensions for the studio vs control part with one of those online room analyzers to make sure you're optimizing the studio part. If you get that wrong, it'll make everything else hard.

Is the ceiling open framed now? If so, I'd probably put acoustic tile and fiberglas batts fill above just to reduce noise from upstairs, so long as you can do it without changing the ceiling height.

Once you have the dimensions, you can use those same calculators to determine how much acoustic treatment you'll want, and start with bass traps in both rooms, and additional acoustic treatment as needed, but I'd focus on the control room first if you're mixing in there.

I'd do a finished drywall just for looks and to keep dust at bay. You might look at some examples of how you might build in some diffusers (vs. sticking something on finished walls) to conserve the open space, since you're starting from nothing.

Build your own acoustic panels and skip the foam is my suggestion.

 

[nathancowing]

my first instinct would be to make the ceiling diffusive.

 

[nathancowing]

 

[ecc83]

A floor plan with dims would be nice. "Dark"? Ok if that's what you want but a dark ceiling can be oppressive.

Yes, 8 feet is lowish (my house is 8'6" and I would not want to lose that 6 inches) We need clues/pics of the construction.

Dave.

 

[violent grey]

First thing Id do is get a tape measure and some graph paper, pencil, a computer with google, and some chill music going.

I like this idea, https://www.gearslutz.com/board/att...ring-room-space-ideal-room-ratios-rfz-01.jpg?
That is not my idea but just to show what you should be looking for. You dont have to make it the same, just be unique to your needs.

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=...s/2014/04/GIK-Ceiling-Corners-Example.png&f=1
This was my target goal, as influence.

https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=...r-traps/project-corner-trap-room-grey.jpg&f=1
This could be something if you find the room is too small and want to only invest minimally. Looks good!

Id then recall that shape and size matters to what your purpose is. Id ask myself, what am I going to do in here? what CAN I do in here? Is the room too small to do this. and depending on those answers, I would either build an invested studio, or would just make due and invest minimally. If the room is perfect size or manageable for your purpose (we are mainly concerned with low frequencies here) and you are in a position to do the construction, Id go for it. If the room is too small and no matter what you do, you will suffer terrible phasing and a boomy 44 hz standing wave, then Id plan to either find another room (or set of dimensions) or hardly invest in the room at this time.

We all want to assume you know what you are up against and have chosen to build in the room so Id get drawing out the perimeter from top view and then adding some design concepts that will make your studio unique and provide you with functionality.

If you are with me still, great. lets get to work.

Id use Amazon.com: Owens Corning 703 24"x48"x2" Fiberglass Boards - Pack of 6: Musical Instruments and Access Denied for your walls and ceiling, reflection panels, bass traps.

I dont know your experience but I found Dennis Folley helpful from acoustic fields, they have a youtube page, I suggest you subscribe and start studying his videos. the math all adds up. I like his way of explaining things. That said, you can make it complex or keep it simple. Either way, you want to add some sound barrier and sound board under your sheet rock, and if you can afford, double the sheetrock on the front side and rear walls. You can easily make the 703 owens corning panels your cloud, they are light weight and easy to spray glue fabric on and hang. the rockwool goes in the walls.

You can easily search google pictures till you find a studio that you think will look nice and make that idea fit into your room.

IDK how many times I watched this, love the song. there are tons of vids out there! so just gotta set the goals and direct your priorities. If you are in the nw usa let me know... if I can come visit I will.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLMSzqfDUi8

 

[miroslav]

I get that it's for a high-end pro studio in that video ^^^ and total isolation and sound proofing/treatment had to be part of the build for post-production ADR and re-recording...
...but I would have left the bigger space w/window if it was for my own personal music studio, and just treated the walls some, etc.
They took a nice big room with high ceilings and natural light...and turned it into a $30k bunker.

 

[Deleted member 196982]

Yeah, it's interesting, if a little frantic at that extra FFWD, but the OP has 8' ceilings, while that place had at least 12'.

There's another video by Jim Lill (Nashville guitarist and other stuff) who took a smaller space and kind of did the same thing - treated essentially 100% of walls and ceiling.

I don't think either of those approaches are really something even 10% of home recording folks can do. I know one person that completely converted his detached garage, but he was a retired audio engineer, and must have spent well over $50k, probably 4x that with all the equipment. Nice hobby, but a bit out of most mortals' reach.

Just checked [MENTION=171936]AsciiRory[/MENTION]'s profile and that post appears to have been his last in these parts. Wonder if any progress or actual plans have been made?

 

[AsciiRory]

Sorry for the delay responding to posts- I am new here.
Here is a pic of my first stab at a layout.

 

[AsciiRory]

The basement is unfinished, with some framing (The closet and east wall attached to it.)
I may either drop the vocal booth or make it so it is foldable against the wall.
I already have some bass traps and acoustic foam and I am thinking of building diffusion for the ceiling and 1 wall of each room.

 

[AsciiRory]

Regarding purpose to the room, most of my instruments go direct to mix/tape (I have a lot of synths), so I would use the live space mainly for vocals and acoustic guitar and the rest would be experimental.
The thought is to have a nice room to mix in first, recording live is secondary since the room is pretty small.

 

[miroslav]

... since the room is pretty small.

I'm glad you realize that, and I would strongly suggest you reconsider dividing it up into two very, very small rooms...plus the vocal booth which will be like a phone booth.

My studio space is 24', so much like yours, and it's about 13'-14' feet wide (one half is 13' the other 14')...and I wouldn't (and didn't) even consider dividing it up.
I've recorded in there with 4-5 people comfortable, and I do all my vocals in there without a need for any booth.

By the time you put in the acoustic treatment, and add the equipment, instruments, desks, some furniture...you won't be able to move in either space.
It's all nice on paper...and people like to think in terms of how a pro studio would be laid out...control room, live room, vocal and iso booths...but it doesn't work in a space that small.
If you're mostly going to be doing your own thing, solo...even more reason to have it one big open room....and then treat the whole space, and enjoy the comfort. Since your primary use would be for mixing...you'll never get a decent sound in a small boxed space. It will be much better in the whole 11'x23' space.

 

[Deleted member 196982]

What [MENTION=94267]miroslav[/MENTION] said.

 

[JimmyS1969]

What [MENTION=94267]miroslav[/MENTION] said.

And yet another +1 to 'not' segregating the room.

If you had the whole square footage of you room for the vocal isolation room, then maybe. Better off using the space together. You will surely get better results.

 

[ecc83]

+1+1 to keeping a single space.

People tend to think "from start to finish" but in fact in many engineering tasks you start with the OUTPUT and work back.

YOUR "output" is a good sounding room for monitoring, you cannot judge FA if the monitoring is crap. Get that right and acoustic recording will almost fall into place with a few duvet/gobos.

Dave.

 

[b00n]

Regarding purpose to the room, most of my instruments go direct to mix/tape (I have a lot of synths), so I would use the live space mainly for vocals and acoustic guitar and the rest would be experimental.
The thought is to have a nice room to mix in first, recording live is secondary since the room is pretty small.

So, the point of separate tracking rooms and vocal booths is isolation.
If you track drums and you want to be able to monitor in real time, what's going on, you need a tracking room with hefty isolation from your control room.
If you have a rock band tracking live with a singer, you need a vocal booth with hefty isolation from the band room to reduce bleed into the vocal mic.

If you'll go mainly DI and overdub one track at a time (with mostly comparably low SPL instruments) I'd strongly advise that you drop the idea of separating the room.
There's no point in booths or making your control room any smaller.

Treat the room to the point you're confident in your monitoring, have a few movable gobos around for making a makeshift back wall for your singer and just go!
If you find some troublesome areas in your mixes, you can always add more treatment.

 

[ecc83]

So, the point of separate tracking rooms and vocal booths is isolation.
If you track drums and you want to be able to monitor in real time, what's going on, you need a tracking room with hefty isolation from your control room.
If you have a rock band tracking live with a singer, you need a vocal booth with hefty isolation from the band room to reduce bleed into the vocal mic.

If you'll go mainly DI and overdub one track at a time (with mostly comparably low SPL instruments) I'd strongly advise that you drop the idea of separating the room.
There's no point in booths or making your control room any smaller.

Treat the room to the point you're confident in your monitoring, have a few movable gobos around for making a makeshift back wall for your singer and just go!
If you find some troublesome areas in your mixes, you can always add more treatment.

Yes^ and short of building a concrete block wall, compliantly isolated from the other room you are not going to stop spill from a drum kit into a vocal mic (you don't see Jagger on stage with a U87 6" from gob!) A complete rock band would need two walls and the vocalist in the next town.

If the idea is to reduce noise ingress, much the same reasoning applies except that you need to proof the whole structure since noise will interfere with mix monitoring. Not likely you can afford/be able to get the sub 30dB SPL of a pro studio so you will just have to pick your work times and/or put up with distractions.

Most of us do! (well, musical son did, worked mostly 1am till dawn)

Dave.

 

[AsciiRory]

If I had to bring in a band it would more than likely be 1 to 2 instruments at a time. Any drums I do are either on my electronic kit or from a MIDI keyboard, so isolation from drums is not an issue.
If I did want to record live real drums it would have to be with no other instruments (except maybe in the cans).
The only time I would maybe do acoustic guitar with vocals simultaneously, and in that case I wouldnt use a vocal booth either.
So really vocals could be done in the live room with proper acoustics.
I am still trying to work out my workflow so I am open to suggestions.

 

[miroslav]

So really vocals could be done in the live room with proper acoustics.

That's the point we're trying make...you're going to end up with two small "boxey" rooms. Proper acoustics will not exist.
No disrespect...but calling a 14' x 11' room (if I read your plans correctly) your "live" room is a stretch. You will have to stuff it with trapping to *somewhat* tame the issues that will be created by that small, closed space...so that room will have to be pretty dead.
Basically, that room is about the size of a small "booth" in more pro studios.

Pretty much the same will apply to the small "control room" space.

You don't have to follow what we are suggesting...but you will regret it soundwise.

AFA monitoring during tracking in a single, bigger room...it's pretty simple...you use headphones, same as the players.
Sure, it might take an extra test pass or two to get your mics/instruments set...as you track, stop to listen on the monitors, then adjust.
Never had a problem doing that...so not really an issue.
Don't go for some typical commercial studio layout...go for what you have and how it will best sound and work for you.

 

[Deleted member 196982]

My room is even smaller and badly shaped, but I've actually had 2 people singing at the same time. Close micing is your friend, though it's going to be hard to really do what can be done in a big room.

I usually set the DAW to loop on the song or section being recorded so the person(s) being recorded can just do multiple takes, do a dry run so they know how that's going to work, then walk out of the room and close the door. Figure I'm just taking up oxygen by staying. Of course, I'd be lying to say there haven't been a couple cases where that failed, but that's part of learning, and it is a small room!