Balance in the mix

[kip4]

As a relative beginner I dont always feel i get the balance of instruments right in my mixs.
Have you got some tips to check this please? for those of us who havent read the book thanks

 

[Bobby Owsinski]

Sure, Kip. I've posted about this a lot lately on my production blog, but here are a couple of quick tips.

1) Make sure that the pulse of the song is strong. That means the kick and snare, then the bass. If these are too low in the mix, than your mix will sound weak.

2) Don't over-EQ, especially on the low end. Too many times I see new mixers add a lot of bottom to the kick or bass and it just makes the mix sound woofy and muddy. If you want more low end, bring up the bass or kick in level first before you add any EQ.

3) The mix balance is all built around the ability to hear all the instruments. It's really easy for instruments to get covered up by one another, and that's when you begin turning things up and destroying your mix balance. Be sure to pan things so that you can hear everything first. Two guitars panned up the middle might clash, but if they're panned left and right, they'll probably work. Then go to #4.

4) EQ for balance, not for sound. The best way to use the EQ is so that you can hear everything distinctly in the mix. If a vocal and a guitar are competing for the same frequency space, try attenuating the EQ at 2-3kHz on one while increasing it slightly at the same frequency on the other. By checking that no two instruments that are panned together are EQed at the same point, you'll probably be able to better hear everything.

Of course, there are a number of other things that you can try and a lot more about the above points, but that's the idea.

 

[kip4]

Thanks for answering Bobby.
I will try this. I WILL take the time to read your blog too.
Cheers

 

[miroslav]

I always focus fist on panning and levels...and don't pay much attention to EQ right off. I like to give each element/track it's own spot in the stereo image, and rarely do any two things get panned in the same position. Even small degrees of difference between a couple of elements can help with clarity and balance....and then of course, their levels.

Once that is working...I find that EQ becomes just a touch-up process rather than "fixing" things to make them work, and usually I'm cutting (mostly low-end mud and high-end harshness), which allows me to push up the levels a bit more rather than pushing up an EQ band.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

4) EQ for balance, not for sound. The best way to use the EQ is so that you can hear everything distinctly in the mix. If a vocal and a guitar are competing for the same frequency space, try attenuating the EQ at 2-3kHz on one while increasing it slightly at the same frequency on the other. By checking that no two instruments that are panned together are EQed at the same point, you'll probably be able to better hear everything.

Here's a variation on this that I use constantly. I'll focus on one range in an instrument (e.g. the lows of the bass guitar) and match the level with another instrument (typically the lows of the bass drum in this example). The I'll eq the mid and high of the bass as needed to blend in with the mids and highs of the other elements of the song. Set an instrument's level based on its most important frequency range and then eq the rest of it to fit.

I don't rely on panning for separation since you can't expect things to always be played in stereo. I make sure things don't clash even if they are panned together. For me stereo placement is just icing on the cake, not a tool for fixing mix problems.

 

[miroslav]

I don't rely on panning for separation since you can't expect things to always be played in stereo. I make sure things don't clash even if they are panned together. For me stereo placement is just icing on the cake, not a tool for fixing mix problems.

Yeah...it's true that things are not alway played in stereo, but at some point it's gotta to be an either or thing, and you go with it.

I'll be honest, mono mixes are not my consideration at all, just like surround mixes are of no concern to me. I'll check mono for the sake of checking, but a mix to me isn't just a question of making it work in all other possibly playback systems.
Not to sound snooty about it...but I like to think of the mix as the final creative production decision, and for me it's always a stereo mix...so panning is a big part of that and it's not just to fix mix problems. It's about laying out the virtual "stage" for the listener. If the listener chooses to change the stage to a mono listening experience...it's on their dime.

That said...I find that most times, if the stereo mix is balanced well and panned, and levels and EQ working as they should...when you collapse it to mono, it's still pretty listenable...but certainly not the same as if you had specifically mixed it for mono.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Yeah...it's true that things are not alway played in stereo, but at some point it's gotta to be an either or thing, and you go with it.

I'll be honest, mono mixes are not my consideration at all, just like surround mixes are of no concern to me. I'll check mono for the sake of checking, but a mix to me isn't just a question of making it work in all other possibly playback systems.
Not to sound snooty about it...but I like to think of the mix as the final creative production decision, and for me it's always a stereo mix...so panning is a big part of that and it's not just to fix mix problems. It's about laying out the virtual "stage" for the listener. If the listener chooses to change the stage to a mono listening experience...it's on their dime.

That said...I find that most times, if the stereo mix is balanced well and panned, and levels and EQ working as they should...when you collapse it to mono, it's still pretty listenable...but certainly not the same as if you had specifically mixed it for mono.

It's not strictly for mono compatibility that I do this. I find it makes for a better balance and it leaves panning free to be a purely creative tool rather than a remedial one. It's just one approach among many.

 

[miroslav]

You didn't really say what/how you did the panning...just that you didn't use it to fix mixing problems (which I honestly don't think I'm doing either with my SOP).

So then are you mixing/EQing/level balancing with everything up the middle as with a mono mix...and THEN panning out to stereo...?
What are you doing differently with your panning approach?

 

[bouldersoundguy]

You didn't really say what/how you did the panning...just that you didn't use it to fix mixing problems (which I honestly don't think I'm doing either with my SOP).

So then are you mixing/EQing/level balancing with everything up the middle as with a mono mix...and THEN panning out to stereo...?
What are you doing differently with your panning approach?

I make most of my basic level and eq decisions before panning things and I frequently check in mono once I've started panning. But that's a swerve from the main point that I set an instrument's level based on its most important frequency range and then eq the rest of it to fit.

 

[miroslav]

I listened to a few of your Bigfoot mixes....they sound very clean and well balanced.
Maybe it's the dinky computer speakers I'm listening on at the moment, but it also sounds like you generally place a good deal of your mix elements more in the center of the mix....yes?

 

[bouldersoundguy]

I listened to a few of your Bigfoot mixes....they sound very clean and well balanced.
Maybe it's the dinky computer speakers I'm listening on at the moment, but it also sounds like you generally place a good deal of your mix elements more in the center of the mix....yes?

I try to distribute elements across the whole width rather than do a lot of wide panning. What you heard probably had wide drums and the rest panned within that space.

If something is taking up a lot of space at the extremes I pan other stuff more moderately. I also try to distribute things according to their dominant frequency ranges, more to give it some spatial movement and balance than to keep things from clashing.

 

[kip4]

I'm not getting into the whole write and wrong way of doing it thing but I tend to pan before setting the levels for the simple that sometimes panning after can drop the levels and i have to go back and double up on any automation and reset the levels. Which quiet frankly is a pain in my harris.

I take on board both opinions and respect your knowledge and experiance and hope to grow and learn from it.
Masking has been a problem for me in the past I'm slowly learning to try and get the tones right at source rather than applying heavy EQ after tracking as i used to.
I liked the suggestion in point 4 Bobby made.

My recording have improved over the years partly due to the fact that my ears have improved not physically sadly but in terms of bieng able to objectively listen out for potential problem areas.
I hope this continues to impove as one day i hope to succesfully mix and master my own tracks and achieve a level of competance i can live with and hopefully others wont find too unpleasant.
thanks for all the replys and feel free to add more.
by the way I am seriously impressed that Bobby came back. Its probably time i bought his book on mixing.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

I'm not getting into the whole write and wrong way of doing it thing but I tend to pan before setting the levels for the simple that sometimes panning after can drop the levels and i have to go back and double up on any automation and reset the levels. Which quiet frankly is a pain in my harris.

There is no right or wrong order for setting levels, eq and panning. You have to find what works for you.

by the way I am seriously impressed that Bobby came back. Its probably time i bought his book on mixing.

I highly recommend it. It has very much influenced the way I work and how I think about mixing. One of the coolest things is the collection of different, even contradicting, ideas from different mix engineers. It goes to show that there isn't ONE RIGHT WAY to get the job done.

 

[kip4]

When i'm done reading Mike Senior (SOS) mixing secrets for small studios. Bobbys book is next on my list.
thanks for the recommendation.
Rich

 

[miroslav]

There is no right or wrong order for setting levels, eq and panning. You have to find what works for you.


One of the coolest things is the collection of different, even contradicting, ideas from different mix engineers. It goes to show that there isn't ONE RIGHT WAY to get the job done.

Absolutely.
Five people can approach the same mix 5 different ways and all five can sound good and yet different.

I chuckle sometimes at how nuts some folks get about how their mixes sound in their cars...but if you sit there and listen to a dozen tunes off the radio...THEY ALL SOUND DIFFERENT!

I find mixes that I really like by other people...but then when I mix, I don't do what they are doing, as I have my own preferences....so it's all good.
There's a huge difference between comparing good and obviously bad mixes....and ones that are all good but they just don't sound the same....they don't follow the same approach.

 

[chuckduffy]

I chuckle sometimes at how nuts some folks get about how their mixes sound in their cars...but if you sit there and listen to a dozen tunes off the radio...THEY ALL SOUND DIFFERENT!

Yep - And also - all cars are different, unless they are the same

 

[kip4]

Yep - And also - all cars are different, unless they are the same

This is also true
I will say though the car on my way to work for me is where i play a lot of my cd. so i kind of know what to expect from commercial offering in my car. Its always a bit bassy in my car compared to home stereo and even more so than my monitors.
So as a referance point i trust my car stereo because my ears have become accustommed to it.
If there are any mixing or mastering things that really stand out on the car stereo I always revisit the mix.

 

[chuckduffy]

This is also true
I will say though the car on my way to work for me is where i play a lot of my cd. so i kind of know what to expect from commercial offering in my car. Its always a bit bassy in my car compared to home stereo and even more so than my monitors.
So as a referance point i trust my car stereo because my ears have become accustommed to it.
If there are any mixing or mastering things that really stand out on the car stereo I always revisit the mix.

Oh yeah - tell me about it. I bought a new car in Jan. I had the previous one for 8 years. It was my goto spot for checking mixes, and I'm devastated now as I was so used to it....