Audio interface for reamping

[ririya]

You know something, I've been trying to help you for 3 fuckin' weeks now, & I'm not stupid, far from it matter of fact. The only reason I'm being a smart-ass is because you're being a dumb-ass by not being able to figure out what the fuck you need to do in order to re-amp....''

that really justifies it? all ive been doing is replying the topic. I tried every single suggestion and gave my results. You are just a being a jerk.


There will be a difference with the signal panned to the left, or coming from only the left channel, like I've told you for about 3 pages now. You'll only be getting half the signal going into your amp. Period. How do I know this? Because I re-amp guitar tracks on a daily basis. I can send my signal from channel 3, channel 4, whatever, but it's not all the way to one side like your clips are, so it's clearly something in your daw that you don't know how to do. Read your fuckin' manuals & try to learn how to use your gear/software...

I actually rethought that and i think was wrong, yeah it does average the signals on any output. But again we are talking about 3db here that can be easily added as a gain. And as i said before im giving 12 db and after a certain level i dont notice a difference after all. The reason i took the previous assumptions was I also tried the mono track a couple of times,and it didnt make a difference after all. I just chose a bad example to send...

I never said there weren't any tone differences in these clips, I only said that the differences between the KA6 di, & the Toneport di would be pretty small...And as far as you giving me credibility, I'm not at all worried about that, because you obviously can't even set up a fuckin' mono send in your daw to re-amp a di where you'll have the correct signal going into your fuckin' amp...

If there's a difference, there's a difference and thats all i've been saying. And if they exist, we cannot recover the exact same tone. If they dont bug you, they bug me, it doesnt mean there are no differences

It is impossible for you because you won't take the time to actually read & learn how to use your gear...

Thats all ive been doing dude... The details im looking for are not in the manuals.

How many times again i must say i figured the reamp scheme? You're the only blind arrogant jerk that insists im doing something wrong. For the last pages Ive only been saying there are differences between the KA6 and the toneport.

 

[minerman]

Ok, you go do what you want, & believe what you want. I just think it's fuckin' stupid you've been going on about this shit for 3 weeks now myself. So you go on & keep fuckin' around like you've been for these past 3 weeks & do what you wanna....

And btw, the information for the correct routing on the hardware output is in the manual for Sonar 8.5 because I did a google search & found it in about 30 seconds...

The reason I'm being a "jerk" is because you want everything just handed to you, with everyone doing it all for you, instead of rolling up your sleeves & trying to learn how to do something on your own...like looking in the manual for "configuring your sound device" & "setting track outputs" which starts on page 58...but you couldn't take the time from being bottle-fed to do something that will actually help you with this shit.....

 

[ririya]

Ok, you go do what you want, & believe what you want. I just think it's fuckin' stupid you've been going on about this shit for 3 weeks now myself. So you go on & keep fuckin' around like you've been for these past 3 weeks & do what you wanna....

And btw, the information for the correct routing on the hardware output is in the manual for Sonar 8.5 because I did a google search & found it in about 30 seconds...

The reason I'm being a "jerk" is because you want everything just handed to you, with everyone doing it all for you, instead of rolling up your sleeves & trying to learn how to do something on your own...like looking in the manual for "configuring your sound device" & "setting track outputs" which starts on page 58...but you couldn't take the time from being bottle-fed to do something that will actually help you with this shit.....

Thats your problem... when was i looking for the correct routing? I figured that weeks ago, you are the one insisting thats my problem. You are really not listening... The problem stopped being the reamp path in the second page. And i never asked a single question about that.

if i really was like that i wouldnt be here spending 3 weeks trying to make the most of this.

I just found weird you saying we can get the same tone, when i find a difference right in the DI recording. Either you dont care, or you dont hear it, but its definitely there.

 

[ecc83]

"The op is gonna have to read up on how to set up his inputs/outputs in Sonar with the KA6. I'm assuming Sonar is like Cubase sorta, just for shits-n-giggles a couple months ago, I tried this myself (Cubase LE5), & while it's not very intuitive (to me anyway), it can be done. This is a big reason I stick with Reaper, it's just very easy & simple to use... "

Yo Minerman. I shall, just for my own interest, shoot the OP's strummings through an amp* and record the result then post the clips.

Can I just say,OP! This is not a trivial thing for me! I have to break habit and tidy up the "stoodio" that has been used as a junk room since musician son left at Crimble! (I just have room to squeeze my 'arris in front of the 6core PC!).

I really do not get the concern with tiny differences between clips? Once they have been thru an amp, a speaker, a room and a mic, any differences will, I suspect be lost.

*HT-20 head driving a 55Hz Greenback. Mics will be SM57 and AKG P150. (maybe also a Sontronics STC-2 if I can be arsed!).

Dave.

 

[ririya]

"The op is gonna have to read up on how to set up his inputs/outputs in Sonar with the KA6. I'm assuming Sonar is like Cubase sorta, just for shits-n-giggles a couple months ago, I tried this myself (Cubase LE5), & while it's not very intuitive (to me anyway), it can be done. This is a big reason I stick with Reaper, it's just very easy & simple to use... "

Yo Minerman. I shall, just for my own interest, shoot the OP's strummings through an amp* and record the result then post the clips.

Can I just say,OP! This is not a trivial thing for me! I have to break habit and tidy up the "stoodio" that has been used as a junk room since musician son left at Crimble! (I just have room to squeeze my 'arris in front of the 6core PC!).

I really do not get the concern with tiny differences between clips? Once they have been thru an amp, a speaker, a room and a mic, any differences will, I suspect be lost.

*HT-20 head driving a 55Hz Greenback. Mics will be SM57 and AKG P150. (maybe also a Sontronics STC-2 if I can be arsed!).

Dave.

What ive seen is that after the amp and speaker the differences are bigger, but i dont know after the mic. But im just trying to get the best possible tone in the first place, so that any loss after that, due to miking and whatever is minimized. If i dont like the tone coming out of the amp, i'll probably hate it after miking.

Thats a good test if you are really up for it. It can help me decide if Im being too anal about this or not.

 

[minerman]

Yo Minerman. I shall, just for my own interest, shoot the OP's strummings through an amp* and record the result then post the clips.

I appreciate that Dave, not sure if the op will or not, but I do man....I almost did this myself, but after thinking about it, I'm not going there...

I really do not get the concern with tiny differences between clips? Once they have been thru an amp, a speaker, a room and a mic, any differences will, I suspect be lost.

This ^ is what I've been trying to tell this guy, the difference in the di's from interface to interface is very little. Sure, it's there, but it's gonna be so minute once you run it through an amp, cab, mic, it's not gonna make that much of a difference...

The big thing I'm trying to get across is to have a signal as close to plugging straight into the amp, you have to have your tracks centered, not to the left, not to the right, but centered...

You guys can just keep going on with this because I'm done, I've told this guy what he needs to do to get a decent re-amp, but since he won't listen, I'm just gonna stay out of this...

 

[ririya]

I appreciate that Dave, not sure if the op will or not, but I do man....I almost did this myself, but after thinking about it, I'm not going there...

This ^ is what I've been trying to tell this guy, the difference in the di's from interface to interface is very little. Sure, it's there, but it's gonna be so minute once you run it through an amp, cab, mic, it's not gonna make that much of a difference...

The big thing I'm trying to get across is to have a signal as close to plugging straight into the amp, you have to have your tracks centered, not to the left, not to the right, but centered...

You guys can just keep going on with this because I'm done, I've told this guy what he needs to do to get a decent re-amp, but since he won't listen, I'm just gonna stay out of this...

To be little is different than not existing. Different is different and little is subjective. You started by saying we could get the exact tone, well which is it? If these differences don't bother you they do bother me. My point is, the interface is somehow modifying the tone and with that being said it becomes clear to me that the re-amped signal cannot be equal to direct plugging. To me, the reamped sound that comes out of the amp has always been different than the direct plugging sound. Maybe after miking i will also think they are not that different, but that's not what we been discussing so far.

You say that the problem is the panning, I say its not, and the problem begins with the interface modifying the tone. I told you i tried the mono track too and it didnt make a difference. That's y I didnt bother making sure it was mono. Also volume can easily be fixed, but re-equalizing is a whole different story.

 

[minerman]

Look man, I've tried to help you, but you're obviously so smart & good at this shit, that you don't need my help, right??? I'm sure you can just throw a mic in front of a cab, & make it sound amazing with little to no effort at all...

And since there's such a difference that you can obviously hear & notice, then why the fuck have you kept on about it for 3 weeks???

Why not pick the best track, record/re-amp it & move on, instead of asking about it in a recording forum all this time???

Or why not try to figure out why some of your di tracks aren't as good as others, & try to learn how to make them better, then make 'em better???

I personally don't think it's gonna make a bit of difference in your tone which di from whatever interface you use when it's ran through an amp, so you do whatever it is you wanna....

 

[ririya]

Look man, I've tried to help you, but you're obviously so smart & good at this shit, that you don't need my help, right??? I'm sure you can just throw a mic in front of a cab, & make it sound amazing with little to no effort at all...

typical... i never said anything like that, you're the one being "i know im doing, i've done this 1000000000x, listen to me" and you are the one that started insulting me. And now you want to turn that on me? Ok then... you were a good help in the beginning and i appreciate that. too bad you turned out to be like this.

And since there's such a difference that you can obviously hear & notice, then why the fuck have you kept on about it for 3 weeks???

Why not pick the best track, record/re-amp it & move on, instead of asking about it in a recording forum all this time???

about 3 pages ago i said i decided to use the toneport and since then i've recorded one song. right now im just trying to make a point and really making sure there isnt anything else i could do (Other than the panning)

Or why not try to figure out why some of your di tracks aren't as good as others, & try to learn how to make them better, then make 'em better???

thats what im still doing here

I personally don't think it's gonna make a bit of difference in your tone which di from whatever interface you use when it's ran through an amp, so you do whatever it is you wanna...

thats where you cant see past it. you got a fixed idea that i got a problem routing the signal. when i clearly tell you:
1 - i tried your way and it didnt work
2 - i see a difference in the raw di
3 - the difference is even bigger when running through the amp and i think the toneport recordings sound closer to plugging right into the amp.


i think we came to a point where you say you dont see a difference (or dont care) and i do. and clearly neither of us know y the differences exist. there's no reason to keep argueing.

 

[minerman]

typical... i never said anything like that, you're the one being "i know im doing, i've done this 1000000000x, listen to me" and you are the one that started insulting me. And now you want to turn that on me? Ok then... you were a good help in the beginning and i appreciate that. too bad you turned out to be like this.

I do know what I'm doing as far as re-amping a guitar di, I can record a di straight into my interface because I have the routing/outputs set up how they're supposed to be, without being panned or to either side, therefore my amp is getting the best possible signal I can give it without plugging my guitar directly into it...I always record a di while I'm recording the amp, just in case I don't like the tone, I can change it later...

about 3 pages ago i said i decided to use the toneport and since then i've recorded one song. right now im just trying to make a point and really making sure there isnt anything else i could do (Other than the panning)

If you'll learn how to use the KA6, you'll find it's a much better interface, with much better features than the Toneport could ever have, simultaneous multiple track recording, phantom power for condenser mics, low latency...

And I honestly don't get why you won't even think about trying to figure out how to record a mono di track in your daw without t being panned or "to the left" as you call it....Dig into the manual & fix that shit man, did somebody give that KA6 interface to you??? If I buy something with $$$ I have to work for, I wanna know how I can get the very best out of it, instead of finding a work-around or using something else that's inferior in it's place (which in my opinion the Toneport is inferior because I owned one)...

thats where you cant see past it. you got a fixed idea that i got a problem routing the signal. when i clearly tell you:
1 - i tried your way and it didnt work
2 - i see a difference in the raw di
3 - the difference is even bigger when running through the amp and i think the toneport recordings sound closer to plugging right into the amp.

If you tried it the way I recommended, then there's something not set up correctly in your daw regarding your KA6 interface. You don't have all the inputs/outputs enabled is all I've been saying man. If you have it set up correctly, you can record a di & an amp track at the same time, so you'll know you're getting the best possible sound out of both....

i think we came to a point where you say you dont see a difference (or dont care) and i do. and clearly neither of us know y the differences exist. there's no reason to keep argueing.

The difference in the di's are probably due to:
1) Since you don't know how to set up the Toneport's control panel, the level it records the di at is probably at "0", meaning you're getting a hotter signal, therefore, it'll be more signal going into the amp. That's why the Toneport probably sounds better to you, the amp is getting a hotter signal.....

2) You don't have your inputs/outputs set up in Sonar's control panel so you can use all of them. That's why when you record with the KA6, the signal is panned, or "to the left". So in my experiences with re-amping a panned (left or right signal) won't give as good a signal as if it were centered...

And you haven't mentioned how high you have the pre-amp gain on the KA6 either, if it's not getting as much signal as the Toneport while you're recording your di, then it's gonna sound different going into the amp too...

I'm still betting the difference in the sound quality is because you're recording a mono instrument into a stereo track with the KA6. When you use the Toneport, it's a mono track, & sounds better because you're getting the full signal...

And the reason all this is pointless is because without clips of an actual re-amped tracks (KA6 di & Toneport di), ran through an actual amp, for comparison to see if there is any difference with the tone, it's pointless to keep on about this...After all, the whole point of re-amping is to use a real amp, & record the amp's output...

 

[ririya]

I do know what I'm doing as far as re-amping a guitar di, I can record a di straight into my interface because I have the routing/outputs set up how they're supposed to be, without being panned or to either side, therefore my amp is getting the best possible signal I can give it without plugging my guitar directly into it...I always record a di while I'm recording the amp, just in case I don't like the tone, I can change it later...

If you'll learn how to use the KA6, you'll find it's a much better interface, with much better features than the Toneport could ever have, simultaneous multiple track recording, phantom power for condenser mics, low latency...

"there's no learn how to use it" im not doing anything wrong, you are insisting on that. i agree its better, for the above reasons, i just dont like the tone im getting

And I honestly don't get why you won't even think about trying to figure out how to record a mono di track in your daw without t being panned or "to the left" as you call it....Dig into the manual & fix that shit man, did somebody give that KA6 interface to you??? If I buy something with $$$ I have to work for, I wanna know how I can get the very best out of it, instead of finding a work-around or using something else that's inferior in it's place (which in my opinion the Toneport is inferior because I owned one)...

like i said a million times, i know how to do it, im not an idiot, its just the way you select the input in sonar, as a default it selects it as a stereo track. i just didnt change it in the clip i sent, and now i deeply regret it. Also i believe it doesnt make a difference if you add some gain afterwards.

If you tried it the way I recommended, then there's something not set up correctly in your daw regarding your KA6 interface. You don't have all the inputs/outputs enabled is all I've been saying man. If you have it set up correctly, you can record a di & an amp track at the same time, so you'll know you're getting the best possible sound out of both....

like i said ive done it the "right" way and the result is the same. the problem is not reamping, the di recording itself is different. i cannot record the amp track, because i dont have all the equipment at home and also i cannot do loud volumes.

The difference in the di's are probably due to:
1) Since you don't know how to set up the Toneport's control panel, the level it records the di at is probably at "0", meaning you're getting a hotter signal, therefore, it'll be more signal going into the amp. That's why the Toneport probably sounds better to you, the amp is getting a hotter signal.....

for the amp i agree, but i dont think that should be a problem for the di recording.

And you haven't mentioned how high you have the pre-amp gain on the KA6 either, if it's not getting as much signal as the Toneport while you're recording your di, then it's gonna sound different going into the amp too...

yes i have, i said the knob is right in the middle, cause thats a point i found it had a decent level and didnt clip my signal. the amplitude of the two signals are very similar, i can post the waveforms later.

I'm still betting the difference in the sound quality is because you're recording a mono instrument into a stereo track with the KA6. When you use the Toneport, it's a mono track, & sounds better because you're getting the full signal...

i covered that several times, and i think the full signal you keep mentioning is just the same signal with a 3db gain. Thats easy to compensate.

And the reason all this is pointless is because without clips of an actual re-amped tracks (KA6 di & Toneport di), ran through an actual amp, for comparison to see if there is any difference with the tone, it's pointless to keep on about this...After all, the whole point of re-amping is to use a real amp, & record the amp's output...

well, lets just wait for dave...

 

[ecc83]

Okaykokey|!

Attached are two clips recorded from my HT-20* on left, AKG P 150 (had to engage the -10dB pad to match the...)right, SM57. Mics into KA6** KA6 into home built Asus with 3.6G 6core AMD. DAW Samplitude SE8 (coz I can still drive that, a bit!)

The 57 was `10mm from the Celestion speaker fret, the P150 some 50mm, both mounted on a stereo bar so in the same plane, about equal about the cone centre (will do a smudge later) . Cheated a bit since although I HAVE the bits about to make a reamp rig I could not be arsed to find them and so played the clips out of my i3 HP laptop, battery power avoiding hum loops quite neatly I felt?

*Clean channel. Gain and tone were at max. Master volume adjusted to give a very rough 90dB SPL at my monitor position from the amp.

**Left ch gain at min (cap mic). This suggests that for some applications, i.e. very noisy amps and capacitor mics, it would be wise to invest in 10 and 20dB XLR pads for the KA?
Right gain, about 10 o'clock for the SM57.

The general levels in Sam 8 were around -20dBFS and peaks never greater than about -10dBFS. MP3s coded at 320kbps 44.1kHz. The original recordings were 16 bit 44.1kHz, I saw no benefit in 24 bits and it cuts out one stage of conversion?
.Wav to MP3 conversion was done in Adobe Audition 1.5.

Hope this helps?
Dave......Just run the clips back thru Tannoy 5As (via Asus) and I find the levels are different by several dBs. It is well known that people favour the louder sound in general so it might be wise to "normalize" the clips before coming to any momentous conclusions!

 

[ecc83]

Piccy as promised.
The cab is an old wrecked out combo some one sent me, loaded as I said with the Celestion Greenback. I have several other speaker chassis including a V30 but son likes the more "jazz" tone of the Greeny.

I "intercepted" quite a few drive units on their way to a skip a couple of years ago. Two I am keen to try one day are a pair of Greenback 10 inchers.

Dave.

 

[ririya]

Hi dave, good job and thank you for doing this. I think a small tone difference is still there. There's just something about the toneport recording that hits the spot for me. However, my intent is to run this through a high gain setup, and i think thats where I really see the difference.

What was your impression? And what did you think of the tones, live, before miking?

 

[ecc83]

Hi dave, good job and thank you for doing this. I think a small tone difference is still there. There's just something about the toneport recording that hits the spot for me. However, my intent is to run this through a high gain setup, and i think thats where I really see the difference.

What was your impression? And what did you think of the tones, live, before miking?

You are very welcome. There is a lot of gain in the 20's OD channel I will run the toneport track thru it the morrow. The reason I chose not to this time and used the clean channel is simply because if you aske 2 guitarist to comment on a distorted tone the answers will be "crap. Mine's better and crap"

My impressions? Ha! Way too deaf to call it. In any case I am not a player (can strip, mend the electrics and screen one for you..AND give it back tuned! But can only remember about 4 chord shapes) . Then, there are upwards of a dozen guys here that eat, sleep and ***t electric guitar. My opinion ain't worth buttons.

Dave.

 

[minerman]

Here's you a re-amp with my gear:

Ceriatone Chupacabra 50 > Marshall 4x12 (Celestion G12-65 re-issue) > Sennheiser e609 > daw







Chupacabra settings:

Resonance: 2
Presence: 5
Bass: 5
Middle: 5
Treble: 5
Master: 8
Gain 2: 2
Gain 1: 7
Era: 80's
Bright 2: L
Bright 1: C

Toneport re-amp

KA6 re-amp

 

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