Anyone like the shure Sm7?

[playdeep]

i have begun to start recording a lot of collegiate acapppella these days. now i am still new to recording in general but i was thinking of selling my Shure sm7b for a decent starting condenser like a rode nt1a or a ksm 27(even looked at the c1). i have also looked at more expensive condensers like the ksm 44 and rode ntk. i was pretty determined to sell the shure until an engineer warned me to careful not to sell it as i may want to use it later and bc the new mic i am considering is only a couple hundred out of pocket. i am doing this more as a hobby so that is why when i get a condeser i am starting inexpensive. i will be micing vocals 95% of the time and use an mbox. i know michael jackson and rappers have taken a liking to the sm7 and i know because it is a dynamic that it can be good for rock vocals.....anyone think i should keep this thing? instead of selling it to get a vocal condenser. thanks.....

 

[Stefan Elmblad]

I would suggest you keep the SM7, forget the NT1A and save for the KSM44. Then you would have 2 of the most versatile mics out there IMO.

I have 17 mics and would never consider sell my SM7.

 

[Cloneboy Studio]

SM7 is pretty alright. It's sort of a trendy mic to use for vocals now. A lot of emo kids like the sound of them ever since it came out that Bert from The Used was recorded on one.

 

[Big Kenny]

KEEP IT!!!!!!!!!!!! If you gotta have a condenser, grab a C1 or a CAD m177 or a AT 3035 (4033 even better)

 

[playdeep]

hey......i have heard also that the ksm 44 is very versatile for many things and neutral for voices. but i will be doing nothing but recording voices with the new condenser and have heard great things about the nt1a for a mic at that pricepoint and even against the ksm 44 from acappella producers and general engineers alike. i am having a really hard time deciding. i have heard and read the reviews on all the mics (ntk, nt1a, ksm 27-44)and am not sure what route to go because few people will be using the mic for the purpose i will be and that is to be recording both the very high to the very low end of the spectrum of women and male ranges. i would love a ksm but not if a $200 rode will do....the extra 300 is hard to justify when i know that i am so busy to use it much and since i am just starting out and could use that to get some monitors.....thoughts?

 

[scrubs]

You should sell the Shure...to me!

 

[Stefan Elmblad]

hey......i have heard also that the ksm 44 is very versatile for many things and neutral for voices. but i will be doing nothing but recording voices with the new condenser and have heard great things about the nt1a for a mic at that pricepoint and even against the ksm 44 from acappella producers and general engineers alike. i am having a really hard time deciding. i have heard and read the reviews on all the mics (ntk, nt1a, ksm 27-44)and am not sure what route to go because few people will be using the mic for the purpose i will be and that is to be recording both the very high to the very low end of the spectrum of women and male ranges. i would love a ksm but not if a $200 rode will do....the extra 300 is hard to justify when i know that i am so busy to use it much and since i am just starting out and could use that to get some monitors.....thoughts?

The reason I mentioned the KSM44 was that is has switchable polar patterns, meaning you could go omni if you had a group of a capella singers at the same time etc. You would have a highquality LDC with different polar patterns, and (if you keep the SM7) a highquality dynamic. For being "only" two mics, you could track a whole lot of things with them.

 

[mshilarious]

Well that's tough, while because everybody loves the SM7, you're never going to use it to record an a capella choir. You might consider a pair of condensers instead. For a group you might prefer something more neutral like the KSM32.

 

[chessrock]

Selling an SM-7 in favor of an NT-1.



I've heard of stranger things. Not many ... but I have.

 

[freshmattyp]

SM7 is pretty alright. It's sort of a trendy mic to use for vocals now. A lot of emo kids like the sound of them ever since it came out that Bert from The Used was recorded on one.

So it's not because it's a studio staple for the last 20 years or so? I stand corrected. Somebody better tell Quincy Jones.

 

[playdeep]

hey guys---

i am not sayingthat the sm7 is not good. an yes a variable polar pattertn mic would be nice if i i wanted to mic a choir but that is NOT what i am talking about. i sing with and want to be able to record acappella vocal bands, o that could be 4 singers all the way up to 17. People hear the word acappella and they think either barbershop or of some choir that usually has 60 members. Acappella means in the style of the church or without instruments so it would include any music that is just the voice. Acappella no longer means just a large choir or barbershop, it is not a style of music but a choice of instrument. because most of the music community has not heard what people have been doing with their voices these days they usually have to hear it to understand. Vocal bands have the voices doing the instruments:drums guitars basses and all. It is pretty amzing what the human voice can do when pushed. Anyways, almost all modern vocal/acappella music is mic'd one track and voice at a time. so that being said what do you all think ?

 

[mshilarious]

Anyways, almost all modern vocal/acappella music is mic'd one track and voice at a time. so that being said what do you all think ?

I think it would have been helpful if you'd told us that 10 posts ago

Well if you're doing track at a time, then like any other studio, you need a range of vocal mics to cover the range of voices you will record. Certainly the SM7 should be one of them, along with a condenser such as the KSM44. With those two you should get a satisfactory sound on the vast majority of voices. The KSM27 is nice too, as are many others in that range. Use the search function, there are literally hundreds of threads here on vocal mic choices.

 

[Stefan Elmblad]

Anyways, almost all modern vocal/acappella music is mic'd one track and voice at a time. so that being said what do you all think ?

Then keep the SM7 for gods sake. The mics you mentioned will not outperform it. I would say the NT1A is a big step down, and the KSM27 a sidestep - at best. Don't get fooled by the common belief that a condenser is automatically better than a dynamic.

The SM7 has been used with excellent results on the vocals on such tracks as "Billie Jean" by Michael Jackson, the entire "Blood, sugar, sex, magik" album by Red Hot Chili Peppers as well as vocals on "Load" and "Reload" by Metallica.

Also, it gets used all over the world as a voiceover and radio announcers mic, due to it's ability to deliver big and full sounding vocals.

Not to mention it's great on guitar and bass cabs, percussion and also bloody excellent on brass.

The only drawback is that it needs a lot of gain from the preamp, so you will need a good preamp to really hear what it can do. When it does however, it shines.

I'd say that if you can't get great results with the SM7, something else is wrong. If you still don't wanna keep it. I'll give you $50 for it.

 

[chessrock]

Acappella no longer means just a large choir or barbershop, it is not a style of music but a choice of instrument. because most of the music community has not heard what people have been doing with their voices these days they usually have to hear it to understand. Vocal bands have the voices doing the instruments:drums guitars basses and all. It is pretty amzing what the human voice can do when pushed. Anyways, almost all modern vocal/acappella music is mic'd one track and voice at a time. so that being said what do you all think ?

I have some experience recording in this type of setup, and no, most acapella is not in fact tracked this way.

It isn't at all unusual to divide the group in to sections, and either separate them or track them separately altogether. I suppose a lot of it is individual preference, though, and dependent on the recording situation / setup that's available.

That said, I think it's important that you have a pair of decent Small-diaphragm condensers that you can use in an XY setup. Either that or a variable-pattern LDC that will allow for an omnidirectional pattern. This will allow you to do a small section of 2 or more singers at a time. You could either have them gather around the mic in a semi-circle ... or in the case of an XY pair of SDC's, you could place them somewhat further back and get a wider stereo image if you're dealing with a larger group or section.

The vocal percussionists are the ones I would highly recommend get their own mic. For this, I think the SM-7 is pretty exceptional. In fact, any good dynamic will do the trick. Forget a condenser; you're talking about something that has to be good for close-mic'ing with a lot of pops, wind, and plenty of spit. Not good for the long-term health and preservation of most Large diaphragm condensers.

Obviously, the amount of space you have to work with is crucial. If you don't have a lot of space ... and you need the ability to edit and punch-in on indivisual sections ... then you might be forced to do it a person at a time. Not an ideal situation by any stretch, though.

If you take it by section, which would be preferable, then you could have the vocal percussionists sing to a click or something, and then overdub each section separately. On the cheap, you could get by with a couple of CAD M-179's for the sections ... even for the soloists. You could put it in figure-8 if it's a two-person section, or omni if it's 3 or more.

 

[chessparov]

Actually the SM57 was used on "Billie Jean". Check the Shure website.
SM7 was used for other tracks on the album.

BTW the SM7 is a pretty standard vocal mic in Nashville now, besides being suited for R&B, Blues, or rock style material.

Chris

 

[playdeep]

well chessrock...this is what i have....i have only the mbox so iam not sure that the focusrite pres on it will really allow the sm7 to shine. i know you know way more about recording than i do but i know most of the vocal producers and acappella/vocal band producers in the industry personally and all of tell me that they record each voice one at a time and usually one to a track(with rare exceptions). most of the time they have told me that i have really only the need to get a decent cardiod mic in terms of patterns they use. they say they use the other polar patterns rarely. in terms of vp mics i know the sm7 is good for this type of plosive work, but i also have a beta 58 (which beatboxers and vp's the world over use for live and in the studio vp work) and i have two rode nt3s which haveproven themselves to be very very good for live and studio vp and vocal bass even becasue the the eq curve. so i think i have what i need for the vp......i believe i have a sm7a not a b what is the difference? (besides age)

i find that it is tough to find specific advice for i want to do with the mic since most have not heard modern acappella nor know much about the techniques that are used to capture it.....i dont not mean this to say that i am receiving bad advice, i just know many producers who use the nice really expensive mics like the u 87 and find themsleves using much cheaper mics all the time for acappellla....stuff like the rode nt1a and ntk, k2 and the ksm 44. i would love to shoot someone some examples if they still are not sure what i am talking about. i am simply looking for the best mic for what i want to do....of course the ksm 44 has been said to do everyhting well and htat would be nice too but i would rather get the nt1a if it is going to be best for "helping" the vocalist a bit as compared to the very neutral and accurate ksm 44. i say this only bc the producers have mentioned the rode nt1a and the rode ntk tend to "help" a bit more than the ksm in terms of sound..... so now my dilemma is to decide whether the extra polar patterns are going to be worth the extra and if i am going to be doing so many voices across the board becasue of the huge amount of singers i will be reocrding then maybe the ksm's neutrality will proove to be worth the 500 bucks. my last question would be about the differences between the 27, 32 ,44 in terms of sound and which would be best for my applications.....if i can get away with the 27 then that would be my choice. i know i sound cheap but it is more that when i first got inot his i dropped some serious coin onthe diamond waves bundle and a lot of other software and still havnt used it. i want to make sure i get into this for good and spend enough time at it to warrant getting a nicer mic or spending awhole lot more on it. bc i have to face it, i love to record but it will always be a hobby for me for now bc business is what i spend so much of my times doing. and i suppose the last question is considering i have the sm7 what does it not do well that i can cover in considering one of these condensers ? thanks......any comments

 

[chessrock]

well chessrock...this is what i have....i have only the mbox so iam not sure that the focusrite pres on it will really allow the sm7 to shine.

That kinda' stuff is usually a lot of myth, or it's exaggerated. Particularly on these boards ... probably because one guy said it and next thing you know all the net parrots were squaking it out all over the place. But hey, it's your money. Do what you wanna' do with it, and have fun. Only you know what works best for you.

i know you know way more about recording than i do but i know most of the vocal producers and acappella/vocal band producers in the industry personally ...

Not to be a smartass or anything ... but why even bother asking this question here then? Seriously, I don't really get it. One would think your producer friends would be much more qualified than a bunch of geeks like me on a home recording board. But I can appreciate your asking, becase it's something that doesn't get brought up on the board very often, and it's refreshing to talk about something different.

and all of tell me that they record each voice one at a time and usually one to a track(with rare exceptions).

I'd love to be able to do it that way. If you can get your clients to agree to it, then that would be extremely cool for you, assuming you're getting paid by the hour. Not so cool for them, though, if they have to pay for it out of their pockets. I generally track a 12-person group, and the amount of time it would take to do it one singer at a time would be pretty staggering. But hey, if they don't mind paying it, then that's great for your profit margin.

The girls I work with happen to be pretty talented and spot on with their technique ... so it's not like I have to be able to single out one track to fix or punch in bad notes, etc. So a lot of it also depends on the talent you're working with.

i find that it is tough to find specific advice for i want to do with the mic since most have not heard modern acappella nor know much about the techniques that are used to capture it.....

You see, now you're kinda' confusing me again. Not trying to give you shit or anyting -- okay, maybe I am. But previously, you had mentioned that you know most of the producers in the industry ... and it also sounds like they've been giving you a lot of advice.

I'm just a little confused, but I'll get over it. I promise.

 

[mshilarious]

i suppose the last question is considering i have the sm7 what does it not do well that i can cover in considering one of these condensers ? thanks......any comments

I think you would be very happy with the KSM27/SM7 combo. The 27 is much more suitable for group vocal, has a bit more sizzle than a 7, and of course is much hotter, in case you ever need to track a quiet vocalist.

 

[playdeep]

chessrock

it is true they have taught me much and often will share their advice when it comes to things. but for example, bill hare, told me that he cant help me with the rode nt1a mic bc he really has no reason ot use one, he can afford to use a much nicer mic....just like he really doesnt know pt le bc he has used the high end stuff from day one. this is why i come here.....to ask the people here who may not know acappella really well but still have practical knowledge i can glean. and you are right, recording each on at a time is costly and time consuming...that is one reaosn why these projects are expensive. i guess the most help i could have would be to know, based on the fact that i need a vocal mic, whether a rode nt1a or ksm 27 would fill my needs or if i will have to in fact spend the extra cash to get a nicer ksm 44 or ntk. i didnt mean to demean your knowledge....i was just trying to let you knwo where i was coming form so you could guide me.....so that being said....

 

[chessrock]

I see now. That makes total sense.


This is just a personal opinion, but I've found most of the NT-1's and 1A's I've heard or worked with to be somewhat harsh-sounding. KSM-27's are pretty solid, in comparison.

Another one you might check out is the Audio Technica 4040.