Any tips on recording with monitor speakers ?

[cjacek]

Hi,

Scenario: One vocalist overdubbing a previously recorded instrumental track without using headphones.

Other than using a cardioid dynamic mic to minimize bleed into it from the instrumental (backing) track coming from monitor speakers from the rear (of the mic) and keeping the levels not too high (from the speakers), what else can I do, to keep the bleed into the the mic at minimum while having loud enough levels (for monitoring) to get a good vocal performance ?

For someone who records this way, what tips can you give ? For example, how does one successfully monitor levels on the recorder, using such an approach ?

Thank you for your time,

Daniel

 

[MadAudio]

CAUTION: useless opinion ahead....

I haven't ever tried this, nor would I want to. Seems like more trouble than it's worth. Something tells me this is the singer's idea.

 

[gecko zzed]

It sounds like you have a vocalist who feels better singing with a whole mess of noise around him, and feels inhibited by singing with headphones.

What you have suggested is probably the best you can do under the circumstances, but it is going to be difficult to get anything halfway decent out of it.

 

[thajeremy]

I have several instructional DVD's and I cant remember which one...but one of them actually recommends this for backing tracks...dont know why...its the only place I have ever heard it....seems like it might have been "Home recording magazine's 100 tips and tricks".

 

[Track Rat]

Here's something you can try. Put the monitors right next to each other. Set up a MONO mix, no stereo. Invert the polarity of one of the speakers by hooking the speaker lead backwards. Set up the vocal mic out in front of the speakers with the back of the mic pointed at the speakers. With the speakers in mono and 180 degrees out of phase with each other, HOPEFULLY they'll phase cancel each other in the mic and the speaker bleed will be minimized.

 

[bendbones]

Don't do it

I record my vocals with the monitors active... Probably why they sound so shite too ;-)

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

Do what Track Rat mentioned - that's the only feasible wya it can work.

 

[xstatic]

Personally, I would not reccomend putting the monitors out of phase. If you are using live monitors instead of headphones, that means that you obviously will NEED to hear the monitors, otherwise you would just turn them off. Running them out of phase will just make it so you need to crank them up to get what you need from them. This in turn will most likely cause much more damage to the recording than leaving them as is. I would however suggest moving them next to each other to narrow the stereo field and hopefully reduce some of the room reflections and excitement that could bleed more into a track. Also, running them out of phase could damage your amplifiers once you start turning up the volume to get what you need. A lot of phjasing is a psychoacoustic thing in which our brains interpret the phasing, but the physical SPL is still there, which means the mic will still get it, and will actually have more bleed. This could affect the way the whole mix interprets later as the out of phase bleed is mixed with the tracks that are in phase. You could try keping a "U" shaped piece of foam behind the mic. That would allow the singer to still here the monitors, but would help shield at least a good amount of the high frequencies from the mic. Kind of an iso wall for just the mic itself

 

[mshilarious]

Hi,

Scenario: One vocalist overdubbing a previously recorded instrumental track without using headphones.

Other than using a cardioid dynamic mic to minimize bleed into it from the instrumental (backing) track coming from monitor speakers from the rear (of the mic) and keeping the levels not too high (from the speakers), what else can I do, to keep the bleed into the the mic at minimum while having loud enough levels (for monitoring) to get a good vocal performance ?

Massive low cut on the backing track. At least everything below 250 Hz. The wall behind the vocalist should ideally be far away and dead.

 

[timboZ]

You could try the Greatful Dead thing with 2 mics and have one of them out of phase.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grateful_Dead (go down to wall of sound)

Or get a new vocalist.

 

[Farview]

Do what track rat says, only don't put the monitors right next to each other. Set up an equalateral triangle between the monitors and the mic. you will need to move the mic around to find the null point. Once you do, leave it there. This does work as long as the singer doesn't touch the mic. It also works better if the monitors are in front of him.

If the guy is needs to get the 'live feel' in order to perform, tell him to butch up and learn how to do stuff right.

 

[Verydangerous]

You ain't gonna stop bleed unless he uses headphones Period!!!!!!

 

[thajeremy]

You ain't gonna stop bleed unless he uses headphones Period!!!!!!

Correct...but they didnt say this would STOP it....this is just to minimize it.

 

[Track Rat]

You ain't gonna stop bleed unless he uses headphones Period!!!!!!

That bleed must piss you off plenty, huh?

 

[Farview]

I once recorded at a studio that had a vocal booth that was shaped wierd. It had a speaker above the door and was kind of 'L' shaped. The spot where the mic was positioned was the spot in the room where the sound from the speaker was completely canceled out. The singer, who is standing a few inches away, could hear the monitor perfectly. The mic picked up nothing of the monitor. It was brilliant, it worked great.

 

[HappyTapper]

Funny,

I can't stop bleed even WITH headphones......
(I alway's get a little)

;o)

You can only minimize.

Try the phase thing. If it doesn't work, try something different.

I wonder what would happen if you tried 2 mics directly in front of the speakers (X/Y configuration) exactly out of phase with the speakers?

HAP

 

[cjacek]

Some absolutely GREAT info and techniques from all of you! MANY, MANY THANKS!!!

~Daniel

 

[Blue Bear Sound]

You ain't gonna stop bleed unless he uses headphones Period!!!!!!

Forget to take your meds there, skippy????

yikes.....

 

[Joel Hamilton]

Hi,

Scenario: One vocalist overdubbing a previously recorded instrumental track without using headphones.

Other than using a cardioid dynamic mic to minimize bleed into it from the instrumental (backing) track coming from monitor speakers from the rear (of the mic) and keeping the levels not too high (from the speakers), what else can I do, to keep the bleed into the the mic at minimum while having loud enough levels (for monitoring) to get a good vocal performance ?

For someone who records this way, what tips can you give ? For example, how does one successfully monitor levels on the recorder, using such an approach ?

Thank you for your time,

Daniel

I have simply used monitors that sound good, so the bleed sounds good. Just stay as low as possible with the levels, and then deal with what you get. If you are using a good microphone, and the singer simply [fake diva voice] "cant work with headphones" then such is the life.

Remember YOU will be "blamed" for the fact that there is bleed. Either you need to make a decision as the one with knowledge of recording, or accept that there will be things you can not do during the mix. This can work, as long as the performer is willing to accept what sound comes of it...

 

[Track Rat]

Forget to take your meds there, skippy????

yikes.....

AND NO WIRE HANGERS!!!!!!!!!! EVER!!!!!!!!