"Anti-war" number

[TheStickman]

Oh boy, this is gonna be fun

Here's where facts and feeling collide:

<<Pulled troups out of Saudi Arabia that had no business there and sent them boys home to their wives>> Why? The Saudi's INVITED US and PAY us to stay there to protect their backsides from Sadam and Iraq.

<<- Closed all the military bases in Germany (where there are still 7 active bases) Italy (still 8) the UK, Spain, Portugal, Turkey, and the south pacific, and let them 'old world' Europeans protect their own interests>> Yeah that makes sense, lets see, even during the COld War our military presence in Eurpoe did what? KEPT THE PEACE!!! You don't keep peace thru weakness or apathy or non-involvment.

<< would not have walked away from the anti-racism convention in South Africa>>What would you have done had you been there? What would going there have done to quell the horrors of racism. Specifically??? What happened at that convention that did a single thing to ease racism in ANY way?

<<I would not have supported Israel>> WHY? They are our friends. In a region full of hate-mongers that are as racist towards them as is possible. How can you claim the US should have gone to the racism conference (which btw turned into a huge pro-terrorist/anti-Isreal rally as I understand it)and then say they should stop supporting a country who's enemies hate them for even EXISTING???

<<I would have dislodged Sadam Husane during the Gulf War and had him in jail for crimes against humanity before a WORLD court, and not a US court>> I would have killed him, had it been me. I want him killed now. Anyone that uses gas on his own people deserves nothing else. Besides..what good would it do for that murderer to be tried in a World Court and not a US court??? More dislike of the US is all I see here hehehehe

<<I would have adopted the internatioanal promises to reduce polution that every single European Unuion Country adopted that the US never even agreed to hear the argument for>> See, more lies and misinformation. Bulgaria is the ONLY nation to ratify those stupid, unrealistic and useless Kyoto Accords. Get your facts straight please.

<<I would close the borders to the United States and only let those people in that can add something ot the society, sort of like Germay does. (Call em racists all ya want... how do you think they have bounced back from having the wall come down and having an overnight 45% unemployement rate, to being the largest economy in continental Europe?)>> hmmm lets see...our economy is...hmmm NUMBER ONE IN THE WORLD. No one else is EVEN CLOSE. So we should adopt a policy that someone who's below us in EVERY SINGLE ECONOMIC FACTOR KNOWN TO MAN....for what reason???? So we can descend to their level? I think not.

<<I would put every fucking dollar the US had into development for a cheap realistic alternative to gasoline so that those pissy Arabs in the middle east would suddenly not be so damn important. Then there would be no millionaire terrorist hiding in caves, sitting on a fat sack of oil money>> Only thing you've said in you most recent post that makes any sense at all. I am all for fuel cells and public trains. I am for anything that weans us off Arab oil.

<<What question(s) have I not answered?>> It would make this post 3 pages long to list them all here...hence I will take the time and PM you a ACCURATE list.

<<What meaningless rhetoric have I spouted off??>> That too would be long...but lets stroll down memory lane for a few of the highlights hehehehe

<<The words on the statue of Liberty are emotional patriotic jargon that make those that have a dramatic place in their heart, but in reality don't MEAN anything>>

<<The Cuban missle crisis was simply the Russians trying to act like America. Branching out>> Hmmm yeah we are CONSTANTLY conquring nations and taking over aren't we. hehehehehe my kids thought that was hilarious and they are only teenagers and have a better grip of history than that LOL

<<And about the whole VOLENTEER thing.... It isn't too hard to talk someone into volenteering for something that promises "all that the US military can give a young man" when you grew up in a working class dead man's town. >>

<<Do you honestly in your Americanized heart believe that the reason gas is so expensive in other countries is because it is taxed so harshley that it HAS to be so expensive?>>Once again, facts are just too tough to repsond to in any useful fashion.

That's enough for now.

 

[pisces7378]

This has taken up too much of my/our time already. TTyron has my respect, and I would love to sit with him over a beer and talk about the "state of the union." Becasue he at least offered some hard facts (although they were incorrect and well... completely wrong) they were thought out and showed that he at least knew how to open a thesaurus at one point in his life. He certainly never mentioned his damn teenage kids in a political opinion thread.
I have offered up numerous suggestions for improvement of our country, and you batted them away. The only thing that you have used as a reason as to why they are bad ideas is, "your facts are wrong." You are just too lazy to do some research and find it for yourself, it doesn't sound right to you so you just say that I am wrong. I have cold written facts from independently unbiased sources that can support every fact I have thrown out.
TTyron's facts about immigration either came from the INS website and he was mis-interpreting which table he was reading, or he made them up... because Mexico and the rest of what is collectively known as "Latin America" makes up by FAR the largest immigration demographic into the USA. And he left a whole other side of the coin unturned. Statistically speaking, for almost every person immigrating into the US, there is a person leaving the US. This is either an American immegrating away from the US (much more rare than...) a former foreigner immegrating back home or away from the US at least. I would just love to see a URL link that would take me to where he got his statistics.
I, unlike the treatment you have given me, am not calling him a lier. I am just curious about where he got his information. Because I would love to compare the info I have with his source(s). You have sat infront of your computer and called me a lier, a misinformed hate monger, and the lowest is an anti-american. You have even yanked your kids in on it, and you still haven't done a single drop of research to justify anything. And I hate to tell ya this, but the History books your kids are reading at school were written by the winners. History is ALWAYS written by the winners. I went through K-12 in US public schools, and I can not remeber one single time where my teacher said: "Ok class, the US made a mistake in 19xx and we US should not have done....." They'd have us all believe that we have a squeeky clean past. Now I admit, our past isn't as bad as some, but we have some scars.

Now the close....

The United States is a Super-Power. Economically, Militarilly, and in every other sense of the word. At the moment, weather the rest of the world can bring themselves to admit it or not, the US is the maistro conducting the whole world. We have been since the industrial revolution, and we will continue for... well who knows, maybe forever. And we are a stern Super-Power. We had a predecessor (England) that was the former World Power, and we watched and learned from their mistakes. We know that you cannot always be a soft and cuddly super power. Sometimes you have to do some ass kicking to stay on top. After all, look what happened to England in WW2 when they tried to be a soft and cuddly super power, by letting Hitler get as far as he did before trying to do anything. I imagine that parts of London are still burning from those Luftwaffe bombs.
I admit with full resolution that the United States is the best country on the entire planet. The ideas behind our constitution seem like such common sense to us because we grew up there... you can do anything you want, as long as you don't interfere with other people's rights to do what they want.
I still think that Switzerland's FOREIGN POLICY kicks the shit out of the US's because they just stay to themselves. The US has starving drug adicts in the streets, and woman that have to sleep with skum for money just to afford to get a $5 fix, and we are off "keeping the peace" in European countries that don't have a very high opinion of us anyway. It doesn't get much more backwards than that. I am not against peace, or helping other countries, and I am not 100% for having ZERO foreign policy. But until EVERY AMERICAN has three square and a roof over their head... the starving people in Cambodia can... wel.... starve, as far as I am concerned. Call it mean, or selfish. I love America and, although most of her citizens don't really stop to excersize the rights, such as the right to openly question their government, I love American people. I think that the absolute BEST phrase that has been written in the thread comes from TTyron. And I will borrow his words to close my envolvement with this thread...


"God Bless Us All, Each and Everyone!

America, Love It or CHANGE IT!!! (we ain't perfected yet!)"



Peace guys! It has been... well not fun, but at least interesting. Take care of yourselves, and I mean this honestly. And my last soap-box statement is... if you have researched your fact, and you have a calm mind that you have dug as deeply as you can to digg out the REAL TRUTH (or as close as it is possible to get to truth) and you are still steadfast and strong in your views and feel in your soul that you are right... then you are a righteous man and you have earned my respect.

Thanks guys,

Mike

 

[TTryon]

protesting the protest song

Again I say Gentlemen,

That's it! You've all forced my hand, and I cannot sit idly by while my good name is reviled/revered without comment. So if I must I will write a Protest of the Protest song and post ASAP.

Thanks for your attention, and remember

"Thems that swang the largest bats strikeout alotsa times"

(used with permission from "Miracle on 3rd or 4th St., somwhere 'round there")

Tim

 

[Khompewtur]

The truth can be a lot of things pisces.

If you dig hard enough you can dig up a pro-US truth and a con-US truth on practically any issue anywhere ever. This could apply to any argument (how many factual based articles could the Israelis and Palestinians produce in which they point the finger at the other as the aggressor/instigator)

The telling thing is which one you choose to believe and support.

Both arguments will be supported by documentation and plausible logic.

Emotionally we will always filter the evidence we dislike and favor the evidence we do. Everyone does this and there's nothing wrong with it IMO it's just natural.

So what I am postulating is why do you choose to favor anti-US support over pro-US support?

For me life in the US has been great and I have never felt mistreated or ashamed of my country so in a sense pro-US attitude has spent a lifetime earning my trust and respect.

 

[pisces7378]

Self Quote:

I admit with full resolution that the United States is the best country on the entire planet. The ideas behind our constitution seem like such common sense to us because we grew up there... you can do anything you want, as long as you don't interfere with other people's rights to do what they want.
**************************************************

Just had to throw that one back out there. Never said I was anti-US. In fact, wasn't ever really talking to you at all. I was just presenting that other side of the coin that some people on this thread have ignored. You are not included, because you do acknowledge that there are two sides, and that America has made mistakes et cetera. I was simply playing a version of Devil's advocate to shove it in non-thinkers faces that you have to THINK and RESEARCH YOURSELF, if you ever want to know what is going on in your own backyard. Don't expect ol` Tommy Brokaw to bring you the news.

Now seriously... peace mate. This whole thing is growing thin.