Analogue Video to Digital Audio converter

[Raavin]

Hey there,

Years ago, before the age of CD burners or even DAT, I was in a band that did a recording that was mastered onto beta video as a digital signal. This was achieved by a rack unit which outputted the digital signal to the 'video' track of the beta tape using a regular video recorder. This could have been up to 15 years ago and I still have the tape.

Does anyone have any idea about what I might search for to get something which might allow me to get the data off the tape??

regards,

Jason

 

[bennychico11]

i'm assuming you're talking about the old Betamax format, correct? There are also newer formats that are called Betacam, but that's probably not what you're talking about.
The cool thing about the old Betamax tapes were that they could be recorded in an audio only mode. This way the whole bandwidth of the tape could be used for audio giving higher quality sound that was much better than when used as video and audio together.

The problem is you need to find an old Betamax player to play the tape. You can find them on ebay. Unfortunately I doubt any current Betcam decks will be able to play the format...especially if the audio was recorded using the whole bandwidth of the tape.
Although, both formats did place the audio tracks in the same place on their tapes....but the video formats are different. So if the audio you recorded wasn't recorded using "audio only", you might have luck getting a betacam deck to play it back. I'd contact a local post production facility or tape duplication house that handles Betacam decks and ask them if it's possible.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Just an FYI: Betamax and Betacam are not only two entirely different formats, they are physically entirely different tapes. Betacam was/is the professional videotape format used in the television/broadcast industry and used/uses tape cartriges close to twice the physical size than the old consumer-grade Betamax (i.e. Betacam tapes will not fit into Betamax machines and vice versa.) Betacam has been replaced by Digital Betacam in most broadcast production facilities these days, though most facilities will still have analog decks available as well.

If your tape is Betacam, a video production facility is your best bet. If your tape is Betamax, you might have to do some internet searching; finding a Betamax player still in a production line is almost impossible these days, let alone the even rarer gear that will read full-helical video tracks as audio.

G.

 

[bennychico11]

Just an FYI: Betamax and Betacam are not only two entirely different formats, they are physically entirely different tapes. Betacam was/is the professional videotape format used in the television/broadcast industry and used/uses tape cartriges close to twice the physical size than the old consumer-grade Betamax (i.e. Betacam tapes will not fit into Betamax machines and vice versa.) Betacam has been replaced by Digital Betacam in most broadcast production facilities these days, though most facilities will still have analog decks available as well.

actually, i'm not sure you're 100% correct on that:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betamax

look at the 2nd paragraph under "The legacy of Betamax". It looks like the physical case and the position of the audio tracks remained the same when Betacam was created. Otherwise both tapes record different video signals. And looking at the picture of the Betamax, it appears to be the exact same case size as the 5, 10, 20, 30 minute Betacam tapes.

also, looking further into it i found that a blank Betamax branded tape can be used on a Betacam deck, and a Betacam branded tape (a non Betacam SP-branded tape though) can be used in a Betamax deck. So you MIGHT get it to work. However, Betacam is also an older format....Betacam SP is what is used now. So now you have to see if BetacamSP decks will play a Betamax from two generations ago!! lol...again, your best bet is just to call up a local studio and ask if they can try it for you. Duplication fees are very minimal.

 

[gtrman_66]

You are correct about the tape size, Benny. The 60 and 90 minute betacam tapes are the oversized ones. Our betacam sp decks will take either tape size.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Well, I can only say that Wikipedia is once again suffering from the fact that they have no actual editors to run QC on their content.

I hate to wave credentials around, but I spent several years of my career as an engineer for the movie and broadcast industry and I can say with certainty that Betamax and Betacam are in no way compatable physically or magnetically. I'm not sure of the exact dimensions, but Betamax tapes (I used to own a couple of Sony Betamax machines) are 1/2" tapes encased in cartriges approximately 5" in width (smaller than VHS tape cartriges.) Betacam, on the other hand, which I usedon the job on a daily basis, is (I think) 3/4" tape encased in cartiges close to (I know) 10" in width.

Both Betacam and BetacamSP were analog formats, but SP used a metallic formulation on their tapes which uses a different bias current then the older Betacam. Digital Betacam cassettes - which have pretty much supplanted Betacam and SP as the broadcast standard - have the same physical appearance and form factor as Betacam, but they record and playback a digital signal instead of an analog one.

G.

 

[gtrman_66]

Ok, here is the lowdown on betacam tapes, I have two of them sitting in front of me. I'm at work at master control at a telivision station right now.

The tape is 1/2" in both cartridges. The 30 min. cartridge measures 6" x 3.5" and appears to be the size of the old betamax tape as I remeber them or very close.

The 60 min tape cartridge measures 10" x 3.5" to accomodate the amount of tape required for the running time. Yes, both tape cartriges play in the same machine which is a sony UVW-1800, of which we have 5 machines in the rack.

You are 100% correct about the analog signal and no, a betacam machine will not play a betamax tape at all.

 

[bennychico11]

i trust your posts and knowledge all the time Glen....but i'm still skeptical about the two tapes being different in sizes (although, this is very trivial to the original post ....i know ). I work with Beta/Digibeta everyday as well and they appear to be the same size as the Betamax ones.

found on another site:

BetaCam cassettes are large. Ninety minute cassettes measures 5.5 by 10 inches (14 by 25 cm). Typically BetaCam field units (camcorders or dockable decks) handle only smaller cassettes with shorter lengths of tape (30 minutes and less). These smaller cassettes are 4 by 6 inches (10 by 16 cm) in size.

Which seem to be the exact same sizes as the SPs.

 

[gtrman_66]

Here are the two side by side. If you only ever used one size, you might not know the other existed. Yes, they both play in the same machine

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

Ok, here is the lowdown on betacam tapes, I have two of them sitting in front of me. I'm at work at master control at a telivision station right now.

The tape is 1/2" in both cartridges. The 30 min. cartridge measures 6" x 3.5" and appears to be the size of the old betamax tape as I remeber them or very close.

The 60 min tape cartridge measures 10" x 3.5" to accomodate the amount of tape required for the running time. Yes, both tape cartriges play in the same machine which is a sony UVW-1800, of which we have 5 machines in the rack.

You are 100% correct about the analog signal and no, a betacam machine will not play a betamax tape at all.

OK, I guess the smaller format cartirges are a newer development that I was not exposed to. I worked at Discreet Logic for WGN-TV and Jim Henson Productions (among others) back in 1998. All Betacam machines and tapes that I was exposed to (from Sony and JVC mostly) were the large format only.

But yeah, I'm pretty sure my brain is not remembering falsely that the encoding format between 'cam and 'max are different nonetheless, that they remain incompatible formats.

Which goes back to the original question by the thread-starter. If his stuff is on Betamax, the odds of finding a standard video production facility that has the old custom gear to read a 'max tape and get audio from the video track are pretty slim. Some custom houses may still have such stuff, but it will probably take some searching and a few phone calls, is my best guess.

G.

 

[gtrman_66]

I think the big idea with the dual size on the 1800 was for the convenience of being able to pop the tape out of the camera and straight into the machine to get busy editing.

I think his best bet is going to be to look for a betamax unit on ebay or something.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

When I was there, even the cameras used the large format tapes. We didn't even call them "large format", we just called them "tapes". That's what Betacam tapes were. And we basically skipped the whole SP stage and went right to digital Betacam, which at that time were also the same size as the "large" Betacams. Never in my wildest dreams would I have figured that Sony would have blown the dust off the old 'max form factor cartirges and use them to encase 'cam format tapes. I guess it makes sense economically; as long as they still had the specs, why not use them. Thanks for the update and correction, gtrman. And sorry for the partial misinformation, Benny.

G.

I'm going to shut up now.....

 

[gtrman_66]

Hey, they had to do something to get some mileage out of the tooling investment they had in the max cartrige cases I guess. I remember AKAI even had some analog multitrack stuff back in the '80's that used the 'max cases too. Can't remember what the hell it was called exactly, but a buddy of mine had one. It was like a 12 track all in one unit if I recall. Didn't sound too bad either.

 

[bennychico11]

And sorry for the partial misinformation, Benny.

G.

just don't let it happen again! i don't want to have to correct you anymore!



kidding. you guys learned me something new about the betamax's. i've never even seen those so I was basing everything off of what i've read in the past. Do you guys know if the Sony BVV-5 camera decks even play the larger 60/90 formats? Come to think of it...all the tapes that I ever get straight off of cameras are 30s and below.

 

[gtrman_66]

I'm not sure, out camera is locked away right now and I can't get to it to see what model it is. Hell, we never use it anymore anyway since the production dept. closed down.

Here is a shot of an 1800 though. You can see the graphic difference in tape sizes by looking at the slot on the front. Amazing how they engineered a machine to just take two different size cartriges at a whim.

 

[fraserhutch]

I worked at Discreet Logic for WGN-TV and Jim Henson Productions (among others) back in 1998.

That's a hoot - I worked at Discreet in Montreal as am engineer until the end of 1998. Who are you?

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

That's a hoot - I worked at Discreet in Montreal as am engineer until the end of 1998. Who are you?

No kidding!? Very cool!I'm one of the original guys that worked for D-Vision Systems in Chicago before Discreet bought us up for our video editing software. I stayed with Discreet in Chicago as long as I could, and would have loved to make the jump to Montreal (what a cool place that was ) but I had family commitments that kept me here.

I still proudly wear my "Software For Moving Pictures" T-shirt

G.

 

[SouthSIDE Glen]

I remember AKAI even had some analog multitrack stuff back in the '80's that used the 'max cases too. Can't remember what the hell it was called exactly, but a buddy of mine had one. It was like a 12 track all in one unit if I recall. Didn't sound too bad either.

Wow, I don't remember that one at all...kind of like an analog Beta version of ADAT, eh? I should have known that Alesis got the idea from someone else (j/k)

G.

 

[gtrman_66]

Wow, I don't remember that one at all...kind of like an analog Beta version of ADAT, eh? I should have known that Alesis got the idea from someone else (j/k)

G.

It was called the MG-1214 , took awhile to remember. They call the tape an akai-20j, which was a beta shell loaded with ampex-456 1/2" It was a pretty cool machine for it's day.

 

[jgourd]

I have beta decks and the Sony PCM 1600 converter. I could dub your tape to CD for you.

Hey there,

Years ago, before the age of CD burners or even DAT, I was in a band that did a recording that was mastered onto beta video as a digital signal. This was achieved by a rack unit which outputted the digital signal to the 'video' track of the beta tape using a regular video recorder. This could have been up to 15 years ago and I still have the tape.

Does anyone have any idea about what I might search for to get something which might allow me to get the data off the tape??

regards,

Jason