analog setup question

adamvelvetu

adamvelvetu

New member
i'm thinking to get the sound to my recordings that i want i should make the switch to analog. my plan was to record onto tape and then output the tracks individually into the computer. if i do that am i defeating the purpose of recording analog in the first place?

i had looked at a few threads and noticed teac's came up a lot. i'd like to get something four track. i currently have a lexicon omega and record with that interface into vegas audio and then tweek with soundforge.

thanks for any advice :)
 
No, dumping analog tacks to digital does not "defeat the purpose" of recording analog. However, it won't give you the same sound as tracking AND MIXING analog. I tracked analog and mixed to digital for a long time. In fact it's all I've ever done. But the next project I do is going to be a bit different. This is something you may consider doing too . . . .

(don't laugh at me.....) Mix to Hi-Fi VHS. You get analog summing, tracked to tape with inexpensive gear. Just run your master outs into the ins of a VCR and off you go. Then you can take your mixed audio from the VCR and, through the outputs of said VCR, dump the stereo recording into your Omega. This is what I intend to do until I can afford a proper mixing deck. I found a really well done post about the pros/cons of this, it was very objective and done quite scientificly. But after about 15-20 minutes of searching all I came up with was this.

If you haven't already purchased an analog deck I would look at these reviews and consider them. The merit of going this route (aside from the fact that cassette really doesn't sound "bad" like a lot of people say it does) is that it's an inexpensive way into analog and you can find out if you really like it or not. So, there you have it. My way-wordy reply. Hope it helps.

https://homerecording.com/tas424review.html
https://homerecording.com/424mk3.html
https://homerecording.com/tas488review.html
 
dude that VHS experiment sounds far out...do you have any samples? once you've mixed down to the VHS will you pretty much just be using the computer for mastering stuff? i'll admit much of my rationale for thinking of going with reels is based on the "they're reels and reels are cool" but is the sound comparable from says like a 7" or 10" reel and a cassette? thanks for the advice and help!
 
Just realize that if you put tracks individually to the computer you will either have to stretch each track to synchronize together correctly, or use a synchronizer, like a SMPTE to MTC synchronizer.

-MD
 
adamvelvetu said:
dude that VHS experiment sounds far out...do you have any samples? once you've mixed down to the VHS will you pretty much just be using the computer for mastering stuff? i'll admit much of my rationale for thinking of going with reels is based on the "they're reels and reels are cool" but is the sound comparable from says like a 7" or 10" reel and a cassette? thanks for the advice and help!
Click to expand...

No, I don't have any samples, I haven't done it yet. But the size of the reel in diameter isn't the issue at play, it's the width of the tape. I don't personally know about the difference in 1/2" or higher and cassette. I know I like the results I get on my portastudio.

themaddog said:
Just realize that if you put tracks individually to the computer you will either have to stretch each track to synchronize together correctly, or use a synchronizer, like a SMPTE to MTC synchronizer.
Click to expand...

You can get these cheap now days. I got a really nice JL Cooper PPS-100 for under three dollars.

but yeah, once it's in the computer it's just to burn off CDs and such.
 
i'm thinking to get the sound to my recordings that i want i should make the switch to analog. my plan was to record onto tape and then output the tracks individually into the computer. if i do that am i defeating the purpose of recording analog in the first place?

i had looked at a few threads and noticed teac's came up a lot. i'd like to get something four track. i currently have a lexicon omega and record with that interface into vegas audio and then tweek with soundforge.

thanks for any advice
Click to expand...

If you're looking at four tape tracks, it might make sense to get a M-Audio Delta 44 or 66, (4 in 4 out analog, the 66 adds a S/PDIF) they are pretty cheap (I think the retail price is $150 or so) then you can transfer the tracks together to the computer in real time without sync problems.

You also have the option then of mixing either analog (using the 4 out) or in software. Also, you can overdub with digital only tracks and mix on the computer.

Somebody else will have to advise on using a synchronizer like the fostex 4030 or JL Cooper PPS-100.
 
DukeDauphin said:
Are there any other sync tools for the fostex R8 to sync up to a macbook/mbox pro 2?
Click to expand...

Fostex 4030 I think. Also, search the threads here, as sweetbeats has a post re: this, and I think syncing hte tape to the computer rather than the computer to the tape.
 
Will an R8 slave?
Click to expand...

I'm not a sync guy, but the manual says it will accept MTC control on the serial port, and it has the connector for the 4030. The 4030 manual shows a model 80 as slave to a video machine.
 
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nate_dennis said:
(don't laugh at me.....) Mix to Hi-Fi VHS. You get analog summing, tracked to tape with inexpensive gear.
Click to expand...

VHS Hi Fi will not give you an "analog tape" sound. You can say it's "not digital" and it's "tape" but it records and plays back in a very different way from normal analog reel to reel or cassette.

Just try it and listen. Push the record level into the red and you just get clipping and harshness.
 
I also don't like the fact that many VHS decks have automatic compression. I'd rather mix to audio cassette or computer.
 
Engineers record to analog tape to get tape saturation. Saturation occurs when you overdrive level going to tape. You can never achieve this in a digital domain because when you over drive anything digital it clips. Once the tape saturation is there you can move it to digital without losing anything.

Word
 
nate_dennis said:
You can get these cheap now days. I got a really nice JL Cooper PPS-100 for under three dollars.

but yeah, once it's in the computer it's just to burn off CDs and such.
Click to expand...

awesome...so if going from analog to digital be prepared to have a piece of equipment in between that syncs them--easy enough. i'm definitely going to try the VHS thing as well. i read comments about compression but also have been reading that can be avoided with the right deck (one that has manual lever control).
 
Blue Jinn said:
I'm not a sync guy, but the manual says it will accept MTC control on the serial port, and it has the connector for the 4030. The 4030 manual shows a model 80 as slave to a video machine.
Click to expand...

Well there you go...then the R8's capstan can be externally controlled.

Engineers record to analog tape to get tape saturation.
Click to expand...

This is a terrible generalization IMO.

Once the tape saturation is there you can move it to digital without losing anything.
Click to expand...

And again.

People record to analog for a variety of reasons. There have been experiments done to try and answer what benefit there is tracking to analog and then transferring to digital for mixing or mixing in analog and then transferring the master to digital. Whatever floats your boat but you're not going to get the same result tracking to analog and then transferring to digital for mixing as you would summing in analog and mastering to an analog deck and then transferring. You will indeed capture analog flavor if you transfer your multitrack project from tape to digital, but something still gets lost in the translation and it is short-sighted to say you can "move it to digital without losing anything".
 
DukeDauphin said:
Are there any other sync tools for the fostex R8 to sync up to a macbook/mbox pro 2?
Click to expand...

If you want to sync analog audio with digital audio, a simple LTC->MTC synchronizer won't suffice. You need something that can generate both MTC and WordClick out of the LTC stream, like the MOTU Midi Time Piece AV. I recently got one for 150 euros (the old model without USB). This machine will read the SMPTE coming from your tape deck and translate it to MTC that controls the sequencer (song position, start, stop) and WordClock that will keep your soundcard in sync with all tape flutterings.
 
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