Analog Primer

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Michael Jones

Michael Jones

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Is there an analog primer on-line somewhere that could give a really good introduction into tape machine maintanence?

I think, at some point, I'd like to offer 2" analog, but I am completely in the dark as far as maintanence, calibration, etc...

Any 2" machines to stay away from?

What to look for in a used machine? Aside from hours on the heads?
 
Hello Michael, if you wander over to prosound web, theres a thread that thoroughly describes analog tape maintenence and calibration etc. Its under Fletchers forum.

http://recpit.prosoundweb.com/

You've probably visited there already. If not, get ready for an enlightenment. Ha!
Look out for slipperman:D Plus, the engineers(I say that with tongue in cheek, since you are a "real" engineer Michael, and no offence to AE's)on mixermans forum, take delight in eating alive newbes:rolleyes: . Some, not so nice. Kind of a AE's comeradere club, but not to my liking.

Hey, you goin analog or what? I run 2 synched 16 trks myself, as well as the digital. Haven't got ALL my digital stuff cabled yet. Still have a PM90 reverb card to put on the Lexicon core 32. But enough about that here.

What are you thinking about in analog? Are you thinking multitrack analog all the way to 2 track R/R or hybrid? I bet once you hear it though, you'll get turned on, and while your at it, read what the mastering engineers REALLY have to say about the type of media they prefer for mastering. I don't won't start a war here though.....hahahahah!

One word of warning. There are those here who feel anything less than 2" is not going to do the job. Well....how much money you got! Thats exactly what it comes down to. My 16 trks are 1/2", and tape is cheap. 1" is expensive and getting rarer. 2" costs MUCHO bucks, not to mention the rest of the signal chain. And for 2", every signal chain to it would all have to be +4 balanced. Mine are all semi-pro, -10 unbalanced cableing. But if you do go +4, thats great.

I know one thing. If your used to digital, the analog maintenence thing is something to think about, not to mention tape itself. Lots to learn. But I for one, don't record enough to make it a daily chore, but to keep your machines/signal chain clean is a real challange for daily analog session work. Theres no way around it. Plus, you need some electronic tools for top rate performance. But I'm certainly no expert Michael, just an enthusiast.

BTW, theres a KILLER Tascam ATR80 2" 24 trk for sale on ebay. I WOULD TRADE MY SOUL....well maybe not that bad:D but close to it. Ha!

fitz
 
I stumbled upon this while searching google for "audio cassette alignment".

See:

http://www.johnvestman.com/alignment.htm

==============

This looks like pretty good info, and you can extrapolate 2-tracks into as many tracks as you wanted, I suppose.

Also, the mfgr's actual service manual would give detailed specific calibration instructions for your particular analog unit.

I'm a huge fan of Tascam analog. I like everything in the way of Tascam analog reels and Portastudios, and I own many of them, but I didn't hop on this thread to recite my equipment list again. You might find it on another thread, maybe, or if you really asked, I'd go through it again, but I have many pieces of Tascam analog gear from low end & on up.

I think analog prices are very favorable on great used decks & mixers, across the board, deals too numerous to mention. I've seen ever increasingly good deals made on MS-16's and MSR-24's, which are pretty high up on the Tascam food chain, 1". The MSR Series is plug-sync compatible. See:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2504535934&category=15199

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2504297329&category=15199

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15199&item=2507783794&rd=1

Fostex isn't a huge favorite of mine, but I'll admit to having a few Fostex analog reels too, a couple cheesy Fostex mixers, and some really great Fostex rackmount effects, as well as an FD4. Again, I'm not here to recite my gear list, but my point is that Fostex offers a competing line to Tascam, if you're so inclined. Fostex made a G-24 1", and several 1/2" 16-tracks. Most newer Fostex decks are plug compatible & sync friendly.

The Tascam ATR-80 2"/24 is about as topline as you'll get in Tascam analog. Now out of production and occasionally featured on Ebay. See one out there right now. See:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=15199&item=2507942051&rd=1

Another real killer deck, F/I, is the Tascam ATR-60/4, 1/2"-4-track, dbx optional. That thing must sound huge. Seen very rarely on Ebay, and last two times I saw them sell for $500 and $700, which is very reasonable, and made me wish I had the money to pop, at the time.

Okay, I'm basically a Tascam person, and that's all I know or recommend. It's good gear for the money, especially nowadays, when we're paying 10-30c on the dollar as compared to new.

All the other professional multitrack decks, like Scullys, MCIs, Sonys, Studers,... all those guys with HUGE 1"-8-tracks and HUGE 2"-16-tracks, frankly,... I'd be concernd about how much power those units would consume, and/or how much heat they would produce.

Energy cost in California is so outrageously high, that power usage of these decks would be a COSTLY concern. Probably more than you'd reasonably expect, much more. We're getting absolutely raped on power costs in California.

I'm pretty sure I couldn't afford to pay to run a big old Scully 1" 8-track, that stands maybe 5 or 6 feet tall. Think of all those DISCRETE components in those old behemoth recording preamps, and probably even TUBES. Think of the POWER it would SUCK.

========

For the record, I'll stick with Tascam & I'm fine.
 
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Hello Reel Person, Wow, I didn't know you lived in California. Where? I thought you lived in the Midwest. Boy, do I get people confused with locations sometimes. I live in Sacramento(actually Citrus Heights which is 20 miles out).
And as far as Tascam stuff, I love their stuff too!
fitz
 
Hey Rick -
Well, I'm just kind of kicking around the idea of offering analog.
My preference would be 2" 16 or 24 tracks.
Prices right now seem pretty good: Studer A80's for under 5 grand, and Sony/MCI JH24's for $3500 tops; that's rivaling top notch DAW's right now. Once you have the PC, the s/w, the AD/DA converters, you could be easily into 5 grand for a digital set-up. (I know I am!)

So, right now, its just a pie in the sky idea, but I'd love to be able to offer it at some point. The thing is, I know nothing about its operation and maintanence.

2" analog could very well be a fantastic marketing tool! And the one thing that sets a studio apart from the flood of $20/hr digital studios.

None of this will happen until constrtuction is complete of course, but I'm always on the look-out for deals and there's no time like the present for education.

Reel -
Thanks for the links.
You brought up some valid concerns, especially with regards to power.
My concern isn't based so much on consumption, but I am curious as to what the power demands/requirements of some of the 2" machines are. Do they require 110?, 220?
How much current, in amperes, do they draw?

Media (tape) for these machines is somewhere on the order of $300 - $350 per reel right?
If you ran at say 30ips, how much recording time would a reel give? If memory serves, its somewhere around 24 minutes?

An expensive endevour to be sure, but something I'd still like to consider.
 
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Yeah Rick, Palmdale, about 55 Miles NE of Los Angeles, just up past the 'smog belt',

in the high desert. This California power situation has really bled me dry financially since the entire fiasco started, in 2001. Dude, I have the LARGEST back yard swimming pool in the entire Antelope Valley,... 30' x 50' rectangular with 8' x 9' outset spa, 3' deep in the shallow, and 9' deep in the deep end. The pool is nearly 70,000 gallons of water, which by volume should be [2-pumps & 2-full size filters] pumped about 6-7 hours a day,... ideally, but I can't really even afford that. I only have a single pump/filter system pumping about 4-hours a day, and no more,... I simply can't afford more. Yeah, this ridiculous screwing we're getting by EDISON and the GOVERNOR, Gray-FUCKUP-Davis, who signed all these exhorbitant long term energy contracts, and took California from a ~40-Billion SURPLUSS to a ~40-Billion DEFICIT in ONE YEAR! Dude, that should be criminal, and the governor should be impeached for his own incompetence! Sorry, just a sore subject for me.

Anyway, I don't have any specs for 'ya on large 2"-24-track power consumption, but suffice to say that all the largest decks would concern me about power consumption levels. Depending on your local area, this might not be a huge concern,... but California? We're getting screwed, man! Screwed.

F/I, just to illustrate, in July and August, the two hottest months of the year, when we have to practically run the A/C 24x7, and there's COMPULSORY filtering of the pool that's absolutely necessary [summer months=high maintenance months], my HOUSEHOLD power bill is up around $550/month, each of the hottest months. I'm kidding you NOT, electric power is a SCREW JOB here! I'm pissed. This whole phoney-staged, corrupt/fake power crisis took my immediate standard of living down a few notches, and likewise for almost all the rest of Californians, except the very most wealthy Californians.

Hint: I don't think SPIELBERG needed to cut down on his pool filtering and air conditioning any. What'dya think?
 
Sorry,... it's a sore subject for me,... I'm off my rant now.

Good luck finding the right 2"/24-track, Michael!

Except for my own concerns about power consumption, I think 2"/24-track would be really nice to have,... basically a fully pro analog format. What's not to like? Running costs would be high, but you'd have to buy into that idea at the outset, otherwise just stick with narrower pro-sumer type formats, which are quite a bit more affordable for the average person.

With me being your basic home-recording musician, though my Tascam analog collection is large, I only run the equipment I'm using at that immediate moment, otherwise the bulk of my equipment stays OFF, when not being used. I guess that's just common sense.
 
F**k Grey Davis AND California. I'm getting my house ready right now for sale. I'm outta here as fast as possible. I live in Sacramento, the capitol of this fucking money grubbing state. As far as I'm concerned, they can stick this city AND state where the sun don't shine. And toss in the music biz in CA too! And its not just the stuff you mentioned. Its the LAWS and those who supposidly serve us also. Heres an example.
I was arrested in my own house last New Years after some cops came to my door at 3:00 in the morning. I was in bed. When I went to the door they asked me if they could come in. I asked why. They just said they wanted to talk to me. I told them no, and slammed the door and went back to bed. The next thing I knew, someone woke me up yelling at me to come to the head of the stairs.

My bedroom was upstairs, and I was in my skivee's, so when I did, all of a sudden two bright lights were shined in my eyes, but I could see 2 pistols pointed at me. I held up my hands and asked who was there and what they wanted, but instead of identifying themself, they asked if I had any weapons on ME. Now theres something to behold. I'm standing there in my shorts. WHERE was I going to hide one:rolleyes: Before I knew it, seven sheriffs ran up the stairs and threw me to the floor.(my wife had let them in under threat of arrest) They handcuffed me, pulled some sweat pants on me after going through everything in the bedroom and tearing up my whole house. I was arrested for resisting arrest. Ha! I asked them how I could be resisting arrest, if they hadn't arrested me yet, and WHAT were the arresting me for in the first place. They didn't like being pinned down. I was roughed up, manhandled and taken to jail. No rights, no answers, no fucking anything. When I got out of jail, I walked across the street to an attorneys office IN MY SWEATS ONLY, they immedietly took the case. It was thrown out of court, as the sheriffs didn't show up, but the Judge admonished the sheriffs office AND the DA. I could have sued, but had no money to work with, and attorneys don't like to take on the DA. Especially here. If you saw what I saw in this jail, you would be astounded. I saw a beating by the sheriffs, and when the sheriffs saw me, they threatened me too. Well, needless to say, its a police state here. Being the capitol, they have the meanest sheriffs you ever seen. Well thats my rant. If your thinking about moving to CALIFORNIA, I'd think twice. This is NOT the golden state anymore. Its the gestapo state.
fitz
:mad:
 
I'm sorry for posting that here, but I'll NEVER be off that rant. Thats not the only time.
fitz
 
So Rick, why did they come to your door?
What were you charged with besides resisting arrest?
 
That sounds terrible Rick. I'm glad you're getting out of the People's Republik or Kalifornia.

I've never been that far west, but I converse with many who are leaving there and who have lived there in the past.

Their Gestapo tactics work so well because no one in government will stand up to the LE agencies. The tax-sucking crowd in Sacramento don't want to ruffle the feathers of anyone, lest they might not be living so high-on-the-hog come next election.

Historians called the SS and the Gestapo a state within a state. I think that applies equally well to Kalifornia's law enforcement tactics and mentality. And the fact that they can get away with it without repercusion, shows that to be true.
 
Hey Micheal;) Buy a 2" machine!

Typical 24 trk 2" weighs about 400 lbs sans remote and pwr supply. Wiring the bugger will cost your a little over $2000 if you doing patchbays. You also going to want a console thats complimentary to the machine. Studers are to much money, but you can get a decent Otari MX90II or III for cheap or even a MX80. Steer clear of the MX70, they have problems you don't want. The MCI's are pretty good deals, a JH24 is around the same as MX80's, but they sound a little different.
Tape is usually $180 for 15 minute reel at 30 ips, you sometimes can get used for studio's who have become Alsihad converts.
You will save big bucks by learning how to do your own debugging and maintaining of the machine. Most of the problems will come from the cards and the remote, typically unless your running it all the time it will take a while before you need relapping and alignment. Oh. Alignment tapes are $220. Man I wish I still had access to one.

http://www.odysseyprosound.com/used.html#24

Buy this setup;)

http://www.odysseyprosound.com/MCIJH24-SV.html and with

this:
http://www.odysseyprosound.com/Trident70-MG.html

Make me shiver......heh heh

SoMm
 
So Rick, why did they come to your door?

Hello Michael and Michael, Ha! Well, the answer was never found, as the police failed to show up in court. My attorney told me this though.
Califonia police as well as other states are at the least, routinely in the habit of ignoring and stepping on peoples constitutional rights. Look whats happening because of the terrorist threat. Pretty soon, they will be able to arrest you with no rights whatsoever, and held with out charge. As he explained it, in order to fight it, you loose rights in the process,

AND the police take advantage of the fact that the burden of proof as well as the financial responsibility, falls on the accused. I was arrested, for pissing off the sheriffs as they had no legal recourse to enter my house without a warrant, and I knew it. When power challanged, the usual course of action they pursue is ILLEGAL. I have no idea why they came to my door, but many prior exchanges with the police here have left me with the feelings, memories, and emotional scars as a result. It is no wonder, that unless the police have a court order to even talk to me about anything, I will resist
co-operational dialog with them. THEY are the enemy, not the potential criminal, as THEY are the criminal in my mind. This case was only ONE of many dealing with the local gestapo.

My city, which was incorporated recently, has a police force that has now attained the #1 rating,(last time I looked anyway) for bad cops, which you can find on the net at BADCOP.com. What does that tell you, if people have had to go so far as create a webpage to keep track of the MANY instances of police brutality, illegal arrests, and personal affronts. Let me give you one other example of being overrun by illegal police actions here.

I own a small residential home, and a few years back, a house one block away became available for rent, and as my daughter and son in law were looking to move, I arranged for them to rent it with me as the LEASEE, as I was a homeowner. In exchange for my assuming responsibility for the house, I was allowed to build a shop in
a seperate 2 car garage, as they really had no other use for it. A year later they moved and I rented it to a friend, because the lease was still in my name.
In this city, the "powers that be" decided to create a department called "Neighborhood Enhancement", with their own force of "code enforcement" gestapo, who immediatly set forth to ENFORSE local codes, that were soon created to bring the neighborhood into compiance with "standards" set forth by city powers. It just so happens, the City Council is occupied by three members, who OWN the Largest Shopping mall in our city, and is across the street from City Hall. It is a documented fact, that these members routinely vote to spend taxpayers moneys, to "enhance" their
MALL, and the streets that surround it, which now have resulted in numerous suits brought by citizen leagues and associations.
Our "code enforcement" gestapo, routinely drive around in 4 vehicles, with the responsibility to investigate and enforce "code infractions", and in this pursuit, also routinely disregard peoples civil liberties. Heres what they did to me.

In front of the garage, in the driveway, I had a trailer and another car, which I stored there back against the garage door, for lack of a better place, untill such time as I could sell them. They were currently registered, but since California law states as long as they are on private property, the TAGS do not have to be ON THE LICENSE PLATE. Haveing already run up against the police and neighborhood enhancement officals for these same vehicles ON MY PROPERTY, and given my attitude towards the officials, I am also ROUTINELY harrassed by them. No sooner than the vehicles were parked in the driveway, I was issued tickets for non registration. Ha! SECOND TIME.
First time was on my property. I took time off from work to show City Hall proof of registration.

This time, they claimed that the vehicles, even though REGISTERED, MUST DISPLAY
the tags, or have a NON OP. I went to a CA DMV office, who after explaining the demands of City Code, wrote a letter to my City Hall, demnading to know by what LAW, they could supersede the LAWS OF the STATE OF CALIFORNIA. When presented to the city attorney, he got so mad, he called in three policeman to stand behind me in the lobby, while he THREW the letter at me. What does that tell you? But that wasn't the end to it. It still gets better.

Within 2 days, 2 code "enforcement" officials showed up at the door of my friend, who when asked if I still live there(I never did?????)was then asked if they could come in. Having no reason to say no, he let them in, and was immedietly informed that numerous complaints had been filed by neighbors, whom would by law be held confidential. Ha, you can be accused without recourse to proof. At that point, my friend was told they were going to INSPECT the interior, AND exterior of the house. Since my friend didn't really know the law, and was intemidated by the BRIGHT ORANGE T-shirts with "CODE ENFORCEMENT" written in bold letters on thier chest, he allowed them to inspect, which resulted in 5 misdemeanor infractions, which were the most OBNOXIOUS abuse of power I have ever witnessed. I won't list them because you wouldn't beleive me. They then wrote a letter to the owner, who resulted in having to pay a $250 fine. Needless to say, He as well as I was PISSED! It gets better. While inspecting, these officials proceeded to tell my friend, that I was a known drug dealer:eek: , had a rap sheet a mile long and numerous other accusations which finally pissed my 30 yr friend off, AS HE KNOWS IT WAS UNTRUE, so he asked them to leave. HE is now routinely stopped by the police. As well as ME. 5 times in the last month alone, for NOTHING, AND they searched my vehicle, leaving everything on the ground for me to pick up.

ARRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGAGRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!

Sorry for the rant. THIS IS WHY I AM LEAVING THIS STATE FOR GOOD!!!! Think it won't happen to you eventually. Just wait. There are at least 20 suits against the police here right now.
FITZ:mad:
 
Well, I have heard about Sacremento, I guess the stories are true.

It sounds a lot like our own Georgetown, Texas and Williamson County.
Williamson Co. Sherrif are so bad:
One time this guy I know was driving in Williamson Co., in G-Town, and he stopped at a convience store. One of those where you park up front, but the parking spaces are angled, so that if you come in from one driveway, you park on this side of the door, and if you come in the other driveway, you park on the other side.

Well, the spaces for "his" driveway were full, so he pulls up a bit, and backs into the other side's spaces. Nothing wrong with that, perfectly legal maneveur. But the sherrif's see him do it, and start questioning him, and telling him that he obviously had something to hide in his trunk, else-wise, why would you back in like that?

So they demand to search his vehicle. He refuses, citing the lack of a warrant and probable cause.
He's handcuffed, taken to jail, his car impounded, and he's charged with, you guessed it, resisting arrrest.
Next day, the charges are dropped, and he's released, but still has to pay impound and tow fees, all of which go to....... Williamson Co.!

That is just downright extortion!

G-Town is a little po-dunk about 30 miles north of Austin. I have no reason to go there, and many reasons not to!
 
SoMm - I'm always on the look out for deals!
Thanks for the link, I think I've seen that site before.

I'm looking along the lines of the JH24. What's the power requirement? 110? 220?
Wonder how well a Ghost would drive it??
 
ghost is a very good choice for a mid-level console for any format...there are upgrades for the mic pres..ie burr brown ics stuff like that...i run mine off of a variac at 127 volts and it sounds creamy.......love em...!!
 
I would think they would work fine together. As far as the power question I think its like alot of multi-country professional products. The power supply should have multiple transformers to run in all three types of power, just like a Marshall amp head. I can't say for sure but I'e always assumed this since Ive never seen UK variations...?

Anyone else know?


Peace,
SoMm
 
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