Am I delusional? - Rock artist needs advice

[xxl]

are you really 20 years old? life and career advice should never be taken from someone your age. i've found that their decision making skills are horrible.

it's not career advice, the guy obviously has a job. you can't rely on the dream alone. i'm on my third year of college and this is what i'm relying on, the education. if i make it in music then great if not i always have my degree. the guy already has a job so why not dream big?

don't be so stupid with the age thing, it makes you look like an idiot. you could be a 39 year old high school dropout for all i know.

experience is not the same thing as knowledge or intelligence.

 

[ez_willis]

when you are young, you don't burden yourself with all that baggage...you just go with your imagination and you chase after your dreams with a blind innocence and great expectation.

and that's awesome when you're young. it's not so awesome when you are 40 and unemployable, living on a stripper's couch.

 

[ez_willis]

experience is not the same thing as knowledge or intelligence.

i know, and fortunately i have all of that.


and a college degree is not the same as a lifetime of experience.

 

[dintymoore]

It takes a certain amount of ignorance and unfounded confidence to be successful in any field.

If most people who are successful really knew what they were up against they probably wouldn't have gone for it.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Look ...... life is for living.
If you have a passion for something ..... you should do it if possible.
Why do you think I'm a professional musician? For the money?!?!?? hahaha
I work more than just about anyone and I just get by.
But there was never anything else that I was gonna do. I absolutely could be making good money in some other field ...... no doubt about it.
But life is fleeting and brief ........ it must be lived with joy and gusto.

So I'm the last guy that would tell someone not to pursue their dreams. If that's where your muse leads you, then that's where you should go.
But you can still be realistic and realize what the true monetary realities are of any career you choose.
Anything is possible but the likelihood is that a music career will never bring in more than a modest income.
It's enough for me ........ won't be enough for everyone.

 

[ez_willis]

I'm the last guy that would tell someone not to pursue their dreams.

then i'm the 2nd to last guy.

i never said don't pursue his dreams. i was more taking the angle of not ditching any current responsibilities. having a backup plan and job skills never hurt either.

I achieved everything i ever wanted musically. fortunately i was 20 years old at the time and leaving on tour for 3 months at a time wasn't an issue. at this point in my life, "pursuing a dream" seems like a childhood fantasy. i wouldn't throw away what i have worked for and built up because i have a dream of getting rich off of music(and i'm way more talented than most of you guys ). dude didn't mention his situation. if he has resposibilities, i'd say meet them and don't chase the dream. if he's young and has a knack for it i'd say go for it.

 

[miroslav]

and that's awesome when you're young. it's not so awesome when you are 40 and unemployable, living on a stripper's couch.

Well of course...you need to eat and live a somewhat decent life.
When you're young it's easy to ignore both of those things, but that's where being older and more mature with experience comes in, and then you can still pursue your dream if you got the other two things covered...of course, it may need to be an "adjusted" dream from the one you had when you were 20.

I actually feel more librated now than when I was younger...because now I do have a solid job and only need to add to that some of the youthful enthusiasm and belief in a dream worth pursuing.

 

[rayc]

I know a couple of people who made their passions their careers and their passions slowly became their jobs and they lost their spark.
Now, that's just two people.
I didn't at any time suggest the OP not aspire to things; I merely stated the truth: that one would have to be delusional to believe that "success" in the modern celebrity/money/notoriety sense would be easily achieved on a fixed budget & with limited time/energy to expend on the "dream" ie: in the terms spelt out by the OP. in her/his words "...but if that just means decent, then I’d rather concentrate on things I know I’m good at."
This doesn't suggest passion, fire, dersire, enjoyment of the process or need for anything other than a significant degree of acceptance/success. It does suggest an aspiration to be seen/noted/acknowledged to be good, (as in better than decent, mediocre, OK), at SOMETHING. (Find a sub culture, find a niche, find something they like that you can do & do it to the best of your ability - plate spinning used to get on Ed Sullivan quite regularly).
I have hopes that more than three people will listen to my music & that 50% of those will actually like it, (nah, truth be told I'd hope a few hundred would like it), as unrealistic as that is.
I do know that I like making & recording music, collaborating with a few folk across the seas, oceans & lands via the good old internet as well as listening to & talking about music & hope that the songs, recording and performances are improving. I also know that my wife won't listen to my stuff - but then again she won't listen to most of the LPs & CDs I have - we have rather different tastes in almost all things.
Mind you, I don't require everyone else to come down to my miserable level for company.
But OP, if you're still following this thread, your songs are cool & you should keep at it - if for no other reason than that I'll be lurking somewhere around these pages ready to listen to you.

 

[Lt. Bob]

I know a couple of people who made their passions their careers and their passions slowly became their jobs and they lost their spark.
Now, that's just two people.

ya' know that frequently happens. Out of all the people that I started playing music with so many years ago, I'm about the only one that's still obsesses over music.
For some reason I never lost my love of it and, at 58, I'm really rare in that I'll do a gig (sometimes two) and then go where someone I know is playing and play some more just for fun even though I've just been gigging for hours.
VERY few guys still do that after 40 years of it.
That's why I say that maybe instead of loving music I just have an obsessive-compulsive disorder.

But rayc has a point. When you start to HAVE to play because you need the money ..... it can become nothing more than a job to you.

 

[kerriobrown]

Wow, there's a lot of comments here that I can relate to, I just wanted to take it all in first and then respond individually. First though, thank you all for keeping this thread alive so long! I can't believe people are here still helping me and I appreciate all opinions, especially when they differ.

 

[kerriobrown]

first off, you are talented. i'm not trying to be nice or lying to you in any way, your songs are probably some of the best concepts i've heard from independent artists up to this day (locally and online).

Thank you, this really made me day! I have a feeling it will keep doing so for a while. Obviously, it's the most positive feedback I've received. lonewhitefly responded earlier that "...some people will love it, some people will hate it and the vast majority will not care about it either way." I think this was the point I was missing most. I assumed that because the people close to me cared about me they would care about music like I do and that is delusional.

What's great now is I feel at that at least one person besides myself appreciates what I'm going for with these songs and that's enough for me to know I'm not delusional in the sense I meant. I know a lot of people who think Led Zep are overrated, but the number of people who don't like them doesn't correlate with the quality of the music because its purpose is for those who can relate to it. If one person besides myself sees what I was going for then it means I wasn't delusional about the songs themselves, just about the idea that a lot of people would relate. That's all I need, and it means there has to be others out there. Of course, I need to fix things up before I do anything, though I am really fighting just taking all the advice and record something new altogether.

Good idea on getting opinions throughout the process. I was avoiding this because I didn't want to give bad 1st impressions or have people grow weary. But given that most of the people I know like to hear the same song on the radio for 10 years+, it's probably worth doing and I'll take this approach for my next song.

Regarding the lyrics, I get that there are formulas that should be followed to get wide appeal. After a lot of thought about what unique purpose lyrics could serve I realized what was the most important thing other's lyrics do for me, which is evoke familiar but indescribable emotions. The combination of music, melody, and words has a special power to evoke memories that may not have any clear visual or describable aspect, but can be so strong emotionally. Like a dream where you don't remember anything about it but can still feel now how it felt then.

Obviously, this is not a new concept, but since it is so inherently personal, it is impossible to fake. Likewise, it can easily fail. Just like the music, if no one gets it because they never experience the feelings I'm trying to evoke, that's fine. But if I can't evoke those feelings from people that do have those abstract experiences, then I am delusional. I write all this b/c I thought it might help explain what I meant by the appreciation I was seeking w/ the music, since the purpose of my lyrics closely mirrors the same idea.

That said, it's not impossible that I can find abstract emotional episodes to write about that would appeal more broadly and many of the bands I love sing about the subjects you mention. It's about how they express them, and I definitely will consider this as an avenue of growth. I've got some ideas for my next song.

Thanks,
Kerrio

 

[kerriobrown]

It takes a certain amount of ignorance and unfounded confidence to be successful in any field.

So true. I never would have gone into my non-music field had I known I'd be working 80+ hours a week for very little pay, and even have to hide I have another interest. But I love it anyways. Nothings perfect, but if we knew that we'd never follow any dreams I guess.

 

[kerriobrown]

I actually feel more librated now than when I was younger...because now I do have a solid job and only need to add to that some of the youthful enthusiasm and belief in a dream worth pursuing.

This is really important for me to hear. Part of the reason the "delusional" thing was stressing me out is b/c I'm worried my writing potential will diminish over time. I don't see any reason why. All other artists (e.g. authors, painters, etc.) only get better with age. But for some reason I rarely hear rock artists putting out as great of quality of music as they did in their 20's and 30's. Note that I did not say they don't put out good stuff, they just seem to peak at a younger age.

I can name some exceptions. But I've always wondered why this is mostly true. I know it can't be due to loss of creative ability. I guess it's usually just other commitments or changing goals. But I'm glad to hear there are some who feel they continue to improve.

BTW, If anyone agrees and knows the answer to why it doesn't seem the case for most people I'd like to know so I can start preventing now.

Thanks,
Kerrio

 

[kerriobrown]

This doesn't suggest passion, fire, dersire, enjoyment of the process or need for anything other than a significant degree of acceptance/success.

Don't get me wrong, I needed to know if my music is any good, precisely b/c I love creating it so much, more than anything. The fact that it consumes me at all times, means I really need to know if I am in deed creating what I think I am, at the very least to erase the (recently) ever-present tinge of paranoia that I'm just polishing crap that only sounds great in my head. Now I can enjoy it even more.

Considering what else you say in your response, I have a feeling we're kind of similar in our drive. Thanks for letting me know of your willingness to help.

Kerrio

 

[kerriobrown]

VERY few guys still do that after 40 years of it.
That's why I say that maybe instead of loving music I just have an obsessive-compulsive disorder.

Yup, this is me in a nutshell. I spend more time listening to music than watching TV, and am always on the lookout for new stuff. My friends, even the musicians, stopped appreciating music like we did as teenagers, but I haven't changed at all. I'm sure it's OCD, because I have to always have a stack of unheard songs in my Ipod so I can go through them, rate them, and add them to my hyper-organized playlists. Then I make my friends listen to my playlists because it pisses me off that they don't care about broadening their horizons even though they're trying to make new music. I'm that jerk, but great songs really still get me like nothing else, and I have to share that like others share political opinions.

Kerrio

 

[dintymoore]

Buddy Rich had a concept of "constant growth and improvement" and I think that that's an important concept.

The best players I know don't play very safe and are always right on the edge of not pulling off the licks. Tony Williams had a fantastic concept of always playing beyond your abilities - I love that!

Also, the best players I know have a child-like character to their playing. People miss this, but you know when you "play" with toy cars in a sandbox? Well it should be just like that when you "play" a musical instrument. You're playing, it should be like that, where you are lost in it and don't care about anything else. Think playing with toy cars when you were 5. Playing for sheer joy.

Plus, study the greats from the past. Everyone should know about Art Tatum.

 

[kerriobrown]

Art Tatum, that's some ridiculous talent. I remember being impressed watching him on the Ken Burns Jazz special on PBS. But I decided to start my jazz collection with Miles Davis and John Coltrane, got confused, and stopped. After you mentioned him, I went to youtube and watched. Much more accessible.

 

[rayc]

Make & record your music.
Post it in the MP3 Clinic for comments & ideas about mixing, etc.
Post it in the Songwriting forum (they made a mistake dropping singing/vocasl & Swriting into one forum - but hey that's a management issue) for ideas about structure, lyrics etc.
BUT, it'd be REALLY useful if you introduce yourself in those zones by listening & commenting as well as posting your songs - in other words becoming a member of the active musical online community.

 

[dintymoore]

Art Tatum, that's some ridiculous talent. I remember being impressed watching him on the Ken Burns Jazz special on PBS. But I decided to start my jazz collection with Miles Davis and John Coltrane, got confused, and stopped. After you mentioned him, I went to youtube and watched. Much more accessible.

Jazz is hard to get into if you didn't grow up around it because so much of it is pretty bad. There's an album by Miles Davis called "Round About Midnight" which is totally accessible, not busy, normal music.

But really, jazz is a mindset. To me, Hendrix was more a jazz musician than many musicians that call themselves jazz musicians. If you play a jazz standard with a distorted Les Paul through a wall of Marshalls, and you have lots of hair, all of a sudden it's rock music. If you have a real piano and a stand up bass people will say it's jazz.

So screw the categories, if there was any one thing that is to me "jazz" it's deciding you're never going to play a song the same way.

Most of the time when they say it's jazz...................... it isn't. Sometimes when they say it's rock..................... it's jazz.

 

[Lt. Bob]

I'm wary of labels altogether ....... music is music.
So often labels are meaningless or, more often, aren't accurate or too confining. They rarely descibe one and only one genre of music.
Let's see ...... Texas swing is just the blues with a cowboy hat on ......... current country is the pop of the late 70's ...... alternative is often 60's singer/songwriter sounding stuff ....... it's all the same ........ it's just music.