Alright what do ns10s sound like?

[rob aylestone]

As I understand it, that software is designed to make in ears or closed headphones sound like speakers in a room. Adding back the left ear hearing right and right hearing left that is missing. The difference is complex, but is both amplitude and time domain tricks that exist with two speakers in a room with two ears. The software puts back in the missing elements. How well it does it I have no idea. I suppose if it does it well, then a properly treated and great sounding space with excellent monitors isnt needed? I wonder?

 

[Farview]

moniters arent supposed to sound good" im asking what do they sound like because iv never heard them. there still somewhat a standard to this day though for professional mixers thats a fact. you make em sound good on there to fix the midrange from what i know.

Yes, that is how they used to be used. Like I said, it is an outdated reference.

People still have them because they see them in pictures of big old studios and realize that the only thing in the pictures that they can begin to afford are the NS-10s.

I found them papery sounding and very sensitive to the power amp I used to power them. I used a Hafler Amp (yes, something else that hasn't been made in 20 years)

 

[panax_27]

Yes, that is how they used to be used. Like I said, it is an outdated reference.

People still have them because they see them in pictures of big old studios and realize that the only thing in the pictures that they can begin to afford are the NS-10s.

I found them papery sounding and very sensitive to the power amp I used to power them. I used a Hafler Amp (yes, something else that hasn't been made in 20 years)

yeah i understand that less and less people for the last 15 years are using them but around during that transition records mostly (mid range Rock,metal,jazz etc instrument sounding records) have been sounding worse coincidently so whats the new reference moniter then ? what did people replace there ns10s with?

 

[rob aylestone]

The NS10s were popular when most studios had their monitors in the mid field, running higher volumes in full range - so the idea was comparision. Home studios were rare. Now we have plenty of small speakers that can actually do bass at decent volume. We're trying to explain that the NS10 was never really a reference monitor - the term tended to be used to donate a speaker that was sophisicated and designed well enough to reveal the music detail - as in a really truthful monitor. The NS10 was a comparison monitor, designed to replicate what most home listeners had in their homes. The change in music has nothing to do with monitoring, it's just music evolution. Pressing a button in the studio and hearing the NS10 sound made you realise that B string on the 5 string bass that really was amazing, would sound like a mistake on many hi-fi systems of the time, where most people had set the smiley face on their graphic EQ!

 

[jamesperrett]

Some people called them check monitors. The timeline as I see it went

70s - Auratone
80s - AR18
90s - NS10
10s - Avantone (basically an Auratone copy)

So we went full circle.

However, lots of engineers take their own monitors that they know well to different studios or they just do all their work from their own studio.

 

[TimOD]

yeah i understand that less and less people for the last 15 years are using them but around during that transition records mostly (mid range Rock,metal,jazz etc instrument sounding records) have been sounding worse coincidently so whats the new reference moniter then ? what did people replace there ns10s with?

Well, with the digital technology today, the NS-10s were "replaced" (not every studio used them of course) with a staggering variety of monitors that even at lower price points work very well indeed. As far as high-end studios, there's at least a dozen different brands and types of monitors in use. What records are "sounding worse" for (since?) the last 15 years or so? Are you suggesting that as NS-10s are used less and less, this is the reason for your claim that records are (were) sounding worse during the "transition" period? It sounds like you're fetishizing the NS-10.

 

[rob aylestone]

Yes, please don’t try to make these speakers special. If a pair of perfect ones appeared on ebay at fifty quid, I’d not buy them, they don’t really serve a purpose any more.

 

[panax_27]

Well, with the digital technology today, the NS-10s were "replaced" (not every studio used them of course) with a staggering variety of monitors that even at lower price points work very well indeed. As far as high-end studios, there's at least a dozen different brands and types of monitors in use. What records are "sounding worse" for (since?) the last 15 years or so? Are you suggesting that as NS-10s are used less and less, this is the reason for your claim that records are (were) sounding worse during the "transition" period? It sounds like you're fetishizing the Ns10s

easy, almost everything just listen to your old favorite musicians new album, and then listen to there old work from 30 or 40 or 50 years ago and then tell me the midrange sounds fine. and im not claiming anything theres more to the puzzle i believe but monitering (mostly midrange frequencies) is a big piece of the puzzle its just an observation over the years thats all... and your last comment is interesting... maybe but idk about that but i find them used on some of my favorite records and probably some of yours too ... im just saying they work for dialing in the midrange. what moniters would you prefer?

 

[panax_27]

Some people called them check monitors. The timeline as I see it went

70s - Auratone
80s - AR18
90s - NS10
10s - Avantone (basically an Auratone copy)

So we went full circle.

However, lots of engineers take their own monitors that they know well to different studios or they just do all their work from their own studio.

awesome thanks love your answer never heard of ar18s before interesting . what are some example records done with ar18s? oh and what about the earlier 2000s? gemelecs maybe?

 

[panax_27]

Yes, please don’t try to make these speakers special. If a pair of perfect ones appeared on ebay at fifty quid, I’d not buy them, they don’t really serve a purpose any more.

oh ok so all those hit records done with them dont serve a purpose anymore as if we dont use the same instruments and microphones... interesting

 

[panax_27]

The NS10s were popular when most studios had their monitors in the mid field, running higher volumes in full range - so the idea was comparision. Home studios were rare. Now we have plenty of small speakers that can actually do bass at decent volume. We're trying to explain that the NS10 was never really a reference monitor - the term tended to be used to donate a speaker that was sophisicated and designed well enough to reveal the music detail - as in a really truthful monitor. The NS10 was a comparison monitor, designed to replicate what most home listeners had in their homes. The change in music has nothing to do with monitoring, it's just music evolution. Pressing a button in the studio and hearing the NS10 sound made you realise that B string on the 5 string bass that really was amazing, would sound like a mistake on many hi-fi systems of the time, where most people had set the smiley face on their graphic EQ!

no i dont think so, they were used during the whole process usually and then sometimes they used there big boy moniters towards the end once they got it dialed in

 

[Papanate]

no i dont think so, they were used during the whole process usually and then sometimes they used there big boy moniters towards the end once they got it dialed in

Some people did that - Most Notably Bob Clearmountain who used NS10s on many ireleases like Roxy Music’s Avalon, David Bowie’s Let’s Dance, & Bruce Springsteen’s Born in the USA - He is also credited for hanging tissue paper over the tweeter to dull overwrought trebles - there were plenty of other hits that never saw an NS10s - most notably Mutt Langes string of 80s and 90s songs - but in every case all the engineers and producers had more accurate monitoring available - it's hard to discern what went on in those days - Clearmountain and Langes are fairly silent on gear they used.

 

[rob aylestone]

It's easy to get locked into a concept. All I can say is that the numerous studios I've enjoyed/suffered over the years who had big monitors, used them pretty much all the time for tracking and the basic mix and EQ stages. Switching to the NS10s to check. Most people hated the damn things. They were useful because most people did their listening on small stereo boxes, the radio and olf fashioned limited systems. If a mix sounded OK on the NS10s, you had a win. Often, in the run of the mill studios, not the Abbey Roads of the day, it was the producer who insisted on using the NS10s, then interfering if the mix sounded dreadful on them.

 

[RFR]

I dunno, maybe I’m the retard out of the bunch, but I like the NS10s. I’m used to them.

But I’ve always had multiple speakers to check things on. I used to use some JBL surround sound speakers I got from a movie theater those were pretty nice, and full range.


But one set of speakers I absolutely loved are the Urei 813s

I wish I still had mine.

 

[Farview]

The last iteration of my studio, I had Urei 813's and Genelec 1031's I found that if you got the mix to sound essentially the same on both, you had a win.

In an earlier iteration, I had the NS-10s in there as well. The difference was too much for me to go back and forth between and they would give me ear fatigue very quickly. My natural tendency is to mix things a little dull, so having super bright monitors doesn't work for me at all.

This is 1997, 2002 and 2012

 

[RFR]

Am I seeing some EVENTS? I’m definitely seeing a pair of Alesis Monitor twos.

I still have a pair of those. (Alesis) Blew out the tweets and replaced with a set of Vifa tweeters.

They’re my workshop speakers now.

Ps. I see you have your Uries soffit mounted.

 

[Farview]

Yup, if you were starting a studio in 1996, you were using events, ns10s and Alesis Monitor twos.

I think I have a set of tweeters for the monitors twos sitting around here somewhere. I stopped using them 20 years ago and moved them to the lounge as TV speakers.

I got the Urie's when I was still at the first studio, they weren't soffit mounted and were WAAAYYY too big for the control room. I designed the next control room around them and got the Genelecs. I still have the genelecs, they are the only things I have left from either of the studios. I should sell them to someone who will use them.

 

[RFR]

Yup, if you were starting a studio in 1996, you were using events, ns10s and Alesis Monitor twos.

I think I have a set of tweeters for the monitors twos sitting around here somewhere. I stopped using them 20 years ago and moved them to the lounge as TV speakers.

I got the Urie's when I was still at the first studio, they weren't soffit mounted and were WAAAYYY too big for the control room. I designed the next control room around them and got the Genelecs. I still have the genelecs, they are the only things I have left from either of the studios. I should sell them to someone who will use them.

You familiar with ADS speakers?

I wonder how they would have been as studio monitors. I had a set for years, and they were quite lovely sounding speakers. I threw them away once the foam surrounds started disintegrating. I had no idea at the tim that they could just be refoamed .

Mine were the L710, bought them new played them till they wore out

 

[TimOD]

easy, almost everything just listen to your old favorite musicians new album, and then listen to there old work from 30 or 40 or 50 years ago and then tell me the midrange sounds fine. and im not claiming anything theres more to the puzzle i believe but monitering (mostly midrange frequencies) is a big piece of the puzzle its just an observation over the years thats all... and your last comment is interesting... maybe but idk about that but i find them used on some of my favorite records and probably some of yours too ... im just saying they work for dialing in the midrange. what moniters would you prefer?

Which ones do I prefer? The ones I have, because those are the ones I chose, in consideration of reviews and my budget. That would be the Focal Alpha 80. And a pair of ATH-50's, a set of Bose Sport wired earbuds (for night-time listening to mixes in bed, and any daytime listening), and a set of Sennheiser HD-400 open-backed. I suppose I should mention I've got my Widex hearing "aids" in always in the studio, but not always at other listening times. If I had an unlimited budget? Genelec top-line, or really a half a dozen other brands' top-line (like, say, PMC). And, really? Of course midrange response is important--there's no argument there, but to make the grandiose, sweeping, and impossible-to-verify claim that "almost everything" sounds different (from my "old favorite musicians") "30 or 40 or 50 years ago" (!) compared to today's recordings because of midrange perception being off or skewed because of . . . Ns-10's or lack thereof during the mixing . . . is perhaps someone experiencing tunnel-vision. Here's something to factor in: the advent of computer use in the studio, and digital equipment in general. And of course the use of tape by my "old favorite musicians" back in the day, and then the moving to digital by most studios (there are certainly exceptions to that) from tape, with many of my "old favorite musicians" embracing new technology.

And there's the fact that most people listen on earbuds; also, many people have noticed that much commercial (-ized) music today seems a bit bright. That would be by design, by trends that pop up and stick around, the design of the afore-mentioned earbuds (bright and bassy), etc. And all that without an NS-10 in sight. Finally, my favorite band, to this day, is Yes, and their best period, their middle period, is when Close To The Edge, their masterwork, was recorded. On to tape, of course. Produced by Eddie Offord (important to mention because of how he produced the record). I have no idea what they used for monitoring. It was made in 1972. I am intimately familiar with the sound of that record. In their late period, they released The Ladder. That record is quite different in sound from CTTE. It's brighter, and they seem to have used a lot of compression, especially on the drums (digital was around by then, but I don't know if they used it). Things change: taste, technology, and the general feeling of the times, and that is why things sound different.

 

[panax_27]

well i finally bought a pair of old non studio version ns10s... and they dont sound fine. in fact there very nice and clear sounding. they definitely magnify the midrange frequencies which is the most important to me... im hearing certain details i havent heard before in songs I've heard many times. good sounding records will sound great through them especially . i actually heard a pair at a studio compared to auratones right after i bought them and if anything the auratones is the "bad" sounding speaker. but honestly i think people should mix more on "bad" sounding speakers... I think maybe people hate ns10s because they think theres always something better out there. but as a new guy i like what works throughout studying music history and not be too phased by "newer and better" monitors. i will try auratones next because there like ns10s x2 in a way. and i would say if your yamahas really sound that bad then maybe you should ask yourself how well are your recordings sounding in general ... ?