all you singers out there...

[zed32]

ok well i didn't know where to post this, and its a little embarassing for me, but i was wondering how many of you singers out there were kind of embarassed/nervous about your singing when you first started? i'm 22 years old now and i've been singing probably since i was 12 or 13. the problem is, i think i'm the only one who's ever heard me sing. i've never been able to sing in front of anyone (well except like 2 of my ex girlfriends but they dont count!). at this point in my life, i'm like a musical mess. i've always wanted to sing or play drums ever since i was young, but now guitar is my main instrument (parents wouldn't get me a drumset) and i'm too embarassed to sing in front of others, or to even let people know that i sing. the only times that people have heard me sing is when i was really drunk or sometimes i'd sing in the car with the above mentioned ex girlfriends, and each of those times i was told that i sing really good. i find myself singing along to every song i have in my CD collection when i'm driving (but only at night or else someone might see me), and i have a really good range, and some decent power to my vocals, and not to toot my own horn but i think i'd make a pretty darn good singer. i've also recorded myself singing in the past and it sounded decent. the problem is, i just cant do it around other people. like sometimes if i'm playing guitar around someone else, i'll sing jokingly, or maybe imitate someone else's voice (which i can do very well) and i might get a laugh or compliment but i shrug it off and get really embarassed if someone asks me to really sing. i'm even embarassed to record myself singing now because i'm afraid that someone outside of the house might hear it. so what the hell do i do? it kinda sucks too cus this guy that just moved in next door to my mom's house is an awesome bass player, and theres another guy down the street from my mom's that is a pretty decent guitar player, and they want to make a band but can't find a SINGER! i'm too embarassed to tell them that it could be me. and also, i was at mom's this weekend and some dude was there next door singing with them and he sounded AWFUL, always off key and pushed the vocals too hard and sounded lame. i know i could do way better than that. i just hope i'm not past my prime already so that if i finally do start singing, i'll have no hope of making it anywhere because of my age. oh and for the record the stuff i like to sing varies from hard rock to metal to punk and most of the stuff in between. i have a pretty decent "scream" too but i hardly do it cus i heard its really bad for the cords. my range is similar to that dude from Incubus i guess would be the closest comparison. anyway, any help, suggestions, stories, or ridicule you can give me would be very much appreciated. thanks...

 

[Garry Sharp]

No ridicule applies - perfectly sensible post.

The fact is that having the voice is only a part of it; almost all good live singers (my wife is one) are natural show offs and attention seekers. Especially the kind of stuff you are talking about. If you don't get your kicks out of lots of people watching and listening to you, it's not going to happen. Of course the more you do it, the more confidence you get (if it goes well!).

It sounds like you have the confidence deep down in your voice, the question is whether you can envisage yourself fronting a band in front of a hundred people who are looking at YOU to entertain them. (The singer gets nearly all the attention at a gig). Only you can answer that.

 

[zed32]

thanks Garry. the thing is, that i think if i was on stage and stuff i could do a very good job, but i have a really hard time in front of small groups of people that i know. especially around my family members for some reason. i've played bass in a couple bands and being on stage in front of people doesn't bother me at all, in fact i feel better playing in front of a crowd, but when it comes to singing for whatever reason i just can't bring myself to do it. i guess i just have to get the ball rolling somehow...it's tough for me because i come from a musical family on my mom's side, but on my dad's side they are the more "academic" type, so as a kid i was forced into school work and couldnt play as much music as i would have liked. my cousins on my mom's side of the family were all encouraged to play music as kids though, and they are all good at it now. i've been sort of the musical "lost child" of the family since i got into the game late, and there are people in my family who have already established themselves as good musicians and singers so i'm like an afterthought to them; i feel like i get hardly any respect as a musician. i play bass, guitar, and drums nowadays but im not particularly great at any of them. the one thing i think i can do best would be to sing. but i just cant do it! and what else sucks is that i really want to try out being a drummer in a band, but if i get good at drumming then i wont be able to sing! i'm not a good multitasker at all. i can usually handle playing guitar and singing, but drumming would probably be out of the question, because i'd end up half-assing the drums and probably half-assing singing too. i've come to the sad realization that my guitar playing isn't going to get me anywhere. i mean, i can play rhythms, i can play many songs and my timing is solid, but i have ZERO chops. my bass playing isn't gonna get me anywhere because it's hard for me to get "creative" on the bass, i mostly do the ol' follow-the-guitar routine. as for drumming i've been practicing every day for a couple hours for the past 3 weeks and im steadily improving, i think i can be good with a couple years of practice. but singing might be my one shot to get into a band and at least play a couple shows in front of some people. i'm not looking to get rich and famous, i just want to make music and play a few gigs here and there. but argh i just gotta find a way to get going before its too late haha...

geez, sorry for the long ramble, i tend to be sort of the over-analytical and rant-y type but anyway, any more advice?

 

[Garry Sharp]

Oh, just get out and do it. You'll grow old hating yourself if you don't try. And just remember that nervousness is normal.

 

[mikeh]

Getting nervous is normal. Courage is not the absence of fear but rather the willingness to proceed in the face of fear.

Perhaps joining a choir or some type of singing group where your voice is simply one of many would allow you to sing without feeling too much attention is focused on only your voice.

Joining a band and singing harmony (vs. lead) vocals also would allow you to gain more confidence without having your voice as the primary focus.

As Gary said, only you know what level of comfort you could have in any public venue, however it does appear like you believe you have the ability to sing and have a desire to sing in some type of public forum. Get out there and do it.

For what it's worth, I've been giigging for close to 40 years (about 4,000 gigs) and while I'm not a great singer, I have been singing harmony and select lead vocals for that entire time. I still feel a certain lack of confidence in my vocal ability and can get "nervous" when I know there are great singers listening - but I choose not to let that prevent me from doing something I enjoy and have a passion for!

 

[zed32]

Garry and mikeh, thanks alot for the words of encouragement. i would love to be in a situation where i can sing harmonies haha, i think that would be cool, i'm pretty good at doing upper harmonies and that's something ive practiced alot, almost any song i listen to i try to imagine what the 2nd harmony would sound like, even if the vocals doesnt have one, i'll sing along to it in harmony to find something that sounds cool hehe. anyway, thanks again for the encouraging advice, hopefully very soon i'll post up something in the MP3 clinic to show you guys what i'm talking about when it comes to my singing...

 

[Folkie]

You do have a number of choices--what has been said above "Just do it!" is one of them. Getting psychiatric help would be another (although perhaps a bit extreme. Fear of rejection a problem? We can help....We're Pshrinks Anonymous.)
You say you have recorded yourself singing. If the band who is looking for a singer is willing, play them the tape (cd, whatever), and see what they say. If they like it, try a step by step approach--first the tape, then live with just them, then with a few of their friends, then yours. As each "group" of listeners shows approval, your absolute fear may diminish (trust me, though, it may never go away--after 30 years, I still get stage fright--I just plug on and it goes away after a few songs).

A good voice coach is another option.

Just some ideas. Good luck with it.

 

[azraelswings]

You gotta want it

I had/have the same problem. My solutions:

1. Had the opera singer gf teach me to sing.

2. Sang for small groups of friends I really trusted

3. Practice practice practice practice practice

You need to believe, and I think you do. Ease into it. Also, I find that being able to laugh at yourself is a great help. A particularly great way to learn how to do so, is to learn a few vocal warm ups. The ones I know sound absolutely RIDICULOUS. Try singing the alphabet up and down the first 5 notes of a major scale, ascending chromatically. Or singing the highest note you can reach, and gradually descending to the lowest. By the time you've listened to yourself sound so silly, you'll have just a bit more confidence.

I checked out The Idiot's Guide to Singing, which was rather helpful. Though not nearly so helpful as the aforementioned opera singer girlfriend.

Best of luck.

 

[Emusic]

Well.
You can hide forever. Or you can go out there and sing. It´s your call. I bet you one day will stay on a stage and be proud of what you are doing. Thats what music is about. Just don´t let it take forever.
Hints?
Try to find someone that you can trust that can play along you and give you a feedback on your voice. Thinking you have a great potential isn´t the same as having one. But from the way you described the singer that didn´t sound too good, I think you have an ear for singing/music. And thats an important part of singing as well. From the way you describe it all I think you have potential. I´m more than willing to give you an honest feedback.
I´m a songwriter here in Norway - running Wizard Studios (website soon to come) and feel free to email me a short piece (20 seconds will do) to emusic@emaker.no and I will give you a honest feedback instantly and delete the take.
If you aren´t capable of doing that you really are stuck buddy.
Do it! Sing out loud and be proud of it. It´s your call. Don´t waste your voice wondering - whatever the quality of it is.

 

[andyhix]

Yeah, you just gotta do it. One way or another, start with backing vox, or a choir, or whatever. But do it and do it soon. The nerves of it can become part of the fun. Being nervous can be an adrenaline rush (maybe not physiologically - I dunno, but similar), and can be quite a buzz. Learn to enjoy the challenge. You seem very confident in your voice. you just need to get it out there.

FWIW, I think there IS a place for lead singers who is modest and not a showboat. I tend to get turned off by singers who are too into themselves, ala David Lee Roth. Just have a strong voice, and make sure you face the crowd when you sing, and you'll be starting off just fine.

 

[NLAlston]

Hi Zed,

I agree wholeheartedly with Garry Sharp: Just throw caution (or, in this case - nervousness) to the wind - jump in those waters, and go for it.

I think that one of the worst things in life is looking back over the years, at a non-explored situation of interest, and wondering [B]"What if?".[/B] You seem to have desire, enough. Now, all you have to do is equate matters by dishing out a proper dose of "nerves". You know, I am 56 years old, and have been singing since very early on (my mother has often related how I, as a very little thing, would stand before the radio and try to sing before I could even talk ). I have sung before hundreds upon hundreds of people, as well as considerably smaller crowds. And you know...I never ever lost all of my nervousness. Just like with you, the larger the crowd - the more my sense of boldness increased. With lesser people, I always felt the 'butterflys'. I remember back to the early eighties, when I was flown down to Sausilito, CA, (Record Plant Recording Studio) to give of myself as a bass/baritone vocalist with Rick James & The Stone City Band (In and Out) album. That was the absolute worst time of nervousness for me. It wasn't bad at all when I was tracking vocals with other band members. But there came the time when Rick wanted a bass dialogue on a couple of the songs - and I stood in the booth alone. Two of the Pointer sisters sat staring at me, from the control room, as well as Rick, a number of the band members and the engineer. Knowing that their eyes and ears were trained at me - just me - put me in a state of nervousness that I had never known before. And what made that feeling travel even deeper was the fact of knowing that the engineer could (and probably would) mute all backing tracks, at some points, so as to hear more clearly how I was doing. I pulled it off, but not without very shakey legs ).

I have known many so called vocalists (and still do) who had nerves of steel - but CAN'T SING A LICK. On the other hand, there is a huge number who never ceases to feel those 'butterflys' - and who can really 'blow'. And as far as your being concerned as to your age - don't. I refuse to let age dictate anything to me - and feel that everyone should adopt this manner of thinking. Besides, you're just twenty-two ).

Let yourself go - and grow - within this grand area that you wish to explore. Will you completely conquer the nervous feelings? Maybe, maybe not. But I can assure you that you will (at least) get it to a manageable state. I don't get as bad as I used to get, when singing in front of a limited number of people. But I guess that I will always feel more comfortable singing before greater masses.

I wish you the very best.

 

[Garry Sharp]

Great post Nate. Good stories. In a booth with two of the Pointers looking at you....

 

[Tim Brown]

What you need to do is make yourself a self hypnosis track and listen to it several times a day, and play it all night long while you sleep.

I'm going to let you in on a secret - virtually ever singer in the world has these types of feelings.

It takes one thing to be a singer - a complete lack of any sense of shame!
You just have to be willing to screw up in front of people.

Let me give you some advice that really helps: Look around for a professional vocal instructor, and take a few lessons. Tell them your situation. A willingness to sing is all it takes.
I love singing, it's one of the greatest freedoms there is, but when I was a teenager, I had a brother who used to always say that I sucked - it turned out he was lying and just said it to bother me, but for me it was a devastating thing, and I wouldn't sing in front of people for YEARS. I mean, it was really a major blow.

Nobody knew I sang. My bass player and I were hunting for a new singer for our band in the mid 90's, and we went through a TON of auditions.

We had recorded a demo without vocals on it on my 8 track reel to reel, and just for the heck of it, I started laying vocal tracks.

http://www.acrosstyck.com/music/doppelganger-rage(demo).mp3

This was prior to my ever taking any vocal lessons. I just did it for the heck of it, and I forgot about it. I had made some mix tapes and included it, and somehow Mick got a hold of one, and his wife freaked out because - sadly - I was better than any of the guys who auditioned for us.

Go ahead and laugh at my vocals if you want. You know why? I don't care.

That's right, I don't give a shit.
You know who taught me to be that way? my vocal instructor.
She said, "do you like singing? if somebody says anything bad about your singing, screw them! You can't please everybody, so do what you can do and don't worry about what other people think."

Since I quit smoking, and started really working on my voice - I have a 3.5 octave range, and I can hit notes and hold them for 30 seconds.

I constantly work on my voice.

I can suggest two great books with CD's for you:

Set Your Voice Free by Roger Love

Roger Love's book/CD will teach you exercises to be able to bridge the gap between your chest voice and your head voice (the exact area where my voice was going weak in that mp3 if you listen to it. The cigarette smoking was killing me; sadly, it was almost 10 years before I finally quit smoking.)

Strengthen your Singing Voice by Elizabeth Sabine


Sabine's work is kind of like "Primal Scream"-ing, in the sense that you learn to connect your voice to emotions. Great stuff. She teaches an operatic/classical style that's modified for hard rock/heavy metal.


Between these two schools of vocal thought, you'll be able to build a strong, powerful, and healthy voice with at least a 3 octave range, and you will be able to sing from the bottom of your range through the top without any breaks.


If you really enjoy singing, go for it!

I got tired of lugging a drumset around, so I'm going to become a singer who drums, instead of a drummer who sings once in a while.



Tim

 

[zed32]

man that clip you posted is awesome! you have a great voice. it's very inspirational to hear this song knowing that you were the same way as i am about your vocals at the time. is that you on the drums also? thats a really cool song. anyway, thanks again to everyone for the encouraging words and helpful advice! i'm going to look into those books you mentioned Tim, and i'm gonna start singing very soon. i'm moving into a new place next month where i'm actually going to start doing some "permanent" studio construction type stuff. i've been moving from place to place alot in the past couple years, but this place im moving to starting next month is finally going to be the place where i'm going to settle my studio. so i'll be posting pics and tons of new sound clips for everyone's enjoyment (or disgust, either way...). anyway thanks again to everyone, this place rocks!

 

[Tim Brown]

FWIW, I think there IS a place for lead singers who is modest and not a showboat. I tend to get turned off by singers who are too into themselves, ala David Lee Roth. Just have a strong voice, and make sure you face the crowd when you sing, and you'll be starting off just fine.

What?!?! No Jim Morrison imitations? The Lizard King himself used to face John Densmore (the Doors drummer) because he was too embrassed to face the audience!
Then look at him, within a year or so he was pulling out his wanger in front of thousands on stage in Florida!

Do what I do: Go into Character!

I have a separate persona that I take on as a vocalist, and similar to Vincent Furnier/Alice Cooper, I only let that personality out on stage.



Tim

 

[Tim Brown]

man that clip you posted is awesome! you have a great voice. it's very inspirational to hear this song knowing that you were the same way as i am about your vocals at the time. is that you on the drums also? thats a really cool song. anyway, thanks again to everyone for the encouraging words and helpful advice! i'm going to look into those books you mentioned Tim, and i'm gonna start singing very soon. i'm moving into a new place next month where i'm actually going to start doing some "permanent" studio construction type stuff. i've been moving from place to place alot in the past couple years, but this place im moving to starting next month is finally going to be the place where i'm going to settle my studio. so i'll be posting pics and tons of new sound clips for everyone's enjoyment (or disgust, either way...). anyway thanks again to everyone, this place rocks!

Yeah. That's me playing drums.

Go for it. You can do it. I'll let you in on another secret - it's a lot of fun!
There's a major emotional release for me.
Sure, the nerves get you, but the key is practice, get your voice in good shape, and then when you sing - commit to the song. Commitment is everything.

I'll tell you why I suggest Elizabeth Sabine's book. A lot of singers who try to sing with a lot of power, try to do it by pushing AIR. Do this enough and you will blow out your vocal chords.
Your body works on electricty, and when you learn to have proper breath support, you'll find that you can sing correctly, with a lot less airflow than you would think. It's like you send an electrical impulse to your vocal chords.
Think about it - a new born baby is loud as hell, and can scream and cry for long periods of time - yet they have tiny lungs! It's because they are crying from their diaphragm.

Oh, btw - you can get Elizabeth Sabine's book/CD from Overstock.com for $9.66 + shipping.

http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?page=proframe&prod_id=1017659

One of her students was Axl Rose. That's how he learned to scream like he can.


I blew my voice out at one point, and literally could not talk for a month. it was 3 months before I could singe agian, and let me tell you - those were the most miserable three months of my life! You don't realize how much you love singing, until you can't do it anymore.
So at that point, I began getting really serious about building a strong healthy voice.

Just remember - you can do it, and you'll have a lot of fun doing it.
You will need to do some "private vocalization" (where you sing things like "Nay, No, and Naa" like a bratty little kid. these things are like making goofy noises, but what they will do, is get the muscles in shape in your throat, sort of like lifting weights for your throat.

All it takes to be able to sing in middle voice (that part where everyone's voice is really weak in the middle) is to practice these vocal exercises, and then you'll be able to roam your range at will.
The goal is to be able to sing every vowel at every note in your range, with equal volume. Once you can do that, it's all attitude!


Tim

 

[zed32]

sounds cool. i'll check out that book ASAP. i know what you mean about release. sometimes when i'm pissed or somethin, i'll hop in the car and drive around and sing for a while. it really helps chill me out and i think its a great way to release some stress. hopefully soon i'll be sharing my release with others...

 

[Kasey]

this sounds pretty normal to me.. and quite frankly i dont have anything to add to this thread other than whats posted already - join a band or something and that will help. What i have done to kind of 'ween' myself into singing in front of other people has been to record myself singing one of my songs, let a lot of people listen to it (i get positive feedback and i dont even have that good of a voice... i get by just cause i'm more of a folk singer...aka i cant sing worth much), and then once theyve already heard you on a recording its not as hard to sing live. just what worked for me, maybe it works in your case, maybe not.

 

[grn]

yeah, get over it and go sing. you're going to be nervous... even if you've done it for awhile... accept it and put that energy in to the performance.

 

[azraelswings]

W
Since I quit smoking, and started really working on my voice - I have a 3.5 octave range, and I can hit notes and hold them for 30 seconds.

I constantly work on my voice.

I can suggest two great books with CD's for you:

Set Your Voice Free by Roger Love

Roger Love's book/CD will teach you exercises to be able to bridge the gap between your chest voice and your head voice (the exact area where my voice was going weak in that mp3 if you listen to it. The cigarette smoking was killing me; sadly, it was almost 10 years before I finally quit smoking.)

Strengthen your Singing Voice by Elizabeth Sabine


Sabine's work is kind of like "Primal Scream"-ing, in the sense that you learn to connect your voice to emotions. Great stuff. She teaches an operatic/classical style that's modified for hard rock/heavy metal.


Between these two schools of vocal thought, you'll be able to build a strong, powerful, and healthy voice with at least a 3 octave range, and you will be able to sing from the bottom of your range through the top without any breaks.

Tim

Are those 3.5 and 3 octaves including or excluding falsetto?