All about structure

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hey when i write songs I'm all about structure.... I love coming up with a whole buch of riffs and hooks and then arranging them (and rewriting some for smooth transition). Do any of you guys have interesting structured songs? What are your thoughts on this approach?

~dn
 
I wish I could say I'm constantly playing with structure in my songs to amaze and entertain but sadly, they mostly fall into the verse1 - verse2 - chorus- verse3 - chorus - bridge - chorus - chorus.

not too exciting. I do however have songs that have refrains instead of choruses. I find it works well if there are more than three verses to introduce the strophic style of writing, a la B. Dylan's "A Hard Rain's Gonna Fall." It basically holds that you have several (more than five) intentionally long verses of varying length capped at the end with a refrain line as opposed to a musically discrete chorus.

Check that song out, and his entire catalog for that matter, to hear a real master and to feed yourself ideas.

Stone
 
here's a few non-standard structures I've used:

chorus riff - verse - chorus - solo - verse - chorus

intro - verse - verse bridge - verse - chorus - bridge/time or tempo change - verse - verse bridge - chorus

alternating between short verses and choruses a bunch of times, with different instruments playing the main riffs behind each verse

verse - chorus - verse - chorus - solo bridge - chorus - solo bridge - chorus - solo bridge 2 - solo bridge - solo bridge 2

verse - chorus - verse - half verse, half altered verse - chorus - bridge - half verse, half altered verse - chorus

Cy
 
I'm so big on structure! Even down to timing in many cases. For me, getting into the chorus ASAP is really important, whether after the first verse or by a sort of overture in an extended intro like Cryokk has.

My favourite structure is:

Intro - Verse - Chorus - Verse - 'Brolo' (Bridge/Lead Solo) - (Altered) Chorus - Outro
 
Yeah, I fool around with structure quite a bit, but not consciously. For me, it's more of a matter of what form will best serve the song and make it the most listenable.
 
What's a chorus? :D

I have yet to write anything with lyrics, so all my instrumentals rarely repeat anything, in a verse chorus kind of way. I pretty much write 'em front to back. The song I'm workin on now is starting to sound like an overture. So I think I'm gonna have to finally attempt lyrics. Anyone played around with changed key/mode verse, chorus etc? Maybe the same vocal melody - different riff/progression?
 
I think structure can be whatever keeps the song interesting. Using two verses before a chorus is fine as long as you don't lose the listener. Long intros, whatever...are fine as long as the song doesn't die before it gets started. I'm speaking from a commercial standpoint. If your goal is to market your music, it must keep the listener interested. I don't personally get too hung up on the actual structure so much as the flow or the projection.

just my opinion...

bd
 
To me....
Song structure is a starting point.....
sort of like framing a house.....
a place to begin....

What you do after that is unique....

or not....

The marriage of the right lyric .....
to the right music is the key.....


mia dos' centavos :D
 
I think ur right about what ur saying on lyrics... but when i write music, i write everything except the lyrics. Then I'll have a one of my singing friends lay down a track (all depending on which voice would suit the song better). When I write I keep structure conscious so that lyrics can almost just snap into my songs... I play around with structure so that the music can stand alone with or without a lyricist.

~dn
 
hey, some good ideas here -

I've tried heaps of different formats, and the one i feel works best is to write the lyrics first..

Then all different ideas for riffs and chords go into your head as you speak the words back to yourself.

then i use different chord progreesions and riffs that would suit the song - not words to suit the music - thats just what i think - ive tried other ways.

also - i think its pretty efefective to, for example, in the third verse say the same thing as the 1st verse, but just worded differently or in a different tense.

unless its a story unfolding- but even then it could be before and after blah blah blah...

ok thanks for the ideas..

y
 
my songs structure themselves-i end up stringing a couple/fex/several riffs i'm music with together, start liking the flow, then put lyrics to it, typically. there is no pattern, though i do find that some common structures work at times (like when i have a really catchy chorus)
 
yiordanaki said:
I've tried heaps of different formats, and the one i feel works best is to write the lyrics first..

also - i think its pretty efefective to, for example, in the third verse say the same thing as the 1st verse, but just worded differently or in a different tense.
y
Click to expand...

Hey Yiordanki, that's the way I approach it too. And I'm from Brisbane as well. Man, was it hot today, hey! No home recker living in Brisbane should be w/out air con!
 
You guys make me SICK.... it's like 10 degrees F here! I am so tired of winter this year, more ice and snow than I care to see again in a looong time.

So...please no more references to it being too HOT!

bd:D
 
If you're talkin' Nashville. I'm learning that there are definitely certain standards as far as structure goes. Once in a while a star performer who also co-writes to produce songs, will deviate widely from established norms, but his or her reputation is the only thing that allows them to get away with it.

Meter is also really important in the country genre. You don't get the meter right and no one can sing it no matter how great the music or the lyric is.

If you write country, might want to pick up some books by Pat Pattison on Rhyming and song structure.

Good Luck!
 
Re: re: All about structure

limoguy said:
If you're talkin' Nashville. I'm learning that there are definitely certain standards as far as structure goes. Once in a while a star performer who also co-writes to produce songs, will deviate widely from established norms, but his or her reputation is the only thing that allows them to get away with it.

Meter is also really important in the country genre. You don't get the meter right and no one can sing it no matter how great the music or the lyric is.

If you write country, might want to pick up some books by Pat Pattison on Rhyming and song structure.

Good Luck!
Click to expand...

Seconded.

I live in Nashville and learned all that the hard way :D
 
Peter D said:
Yeah, I fool around with structure quite a bit, but not consciously. For me, it's more of a matter of what form will best serve the song and make it the most listenable.
Click to expand...

I would agree, it's what best fits the song at that moment; to make it most listenable. I have tried to the strict way [like CY], but the song only turned out to suck balls.
 
If you're talkin' Nashville. I'm learning that there are definitely certain standards as far as structure goes
Click to expand...

Thirded :)

I recently recorded a track for a friend. Later I asked her sister what she thought of the song and she said she liked it apart from the bit in the middle where it appears to stop....pardon?? I assumed it was because the song had no bridge, which is what she probably expected.

I later found out that she hadn't noticed that I'd put the track on the CD twice!! DUH!!

cheers
john
 
country songs dont seem to have that much room for improvising around a set structure it seems.

My mate went to the TAMWORTH COUNTRY MUSIC festival (dont ask me why - im not much of a country fan) this weekend and the songs and bands that stuck to a boring old intro verse chorus verse chorus bridge chorus thing really sucked.

you gotta be different to catch peoples attention nowadays.

Rodeo! Gday mate!

whereabouts in bris. are you?

y
 
btw, someone prove me wrong about the country music "sucking" thing....... I feel my mind needs to be opened.
 
'y' - I've PM'd you

I can't tolerate much generic country either. Yet I utterly appreciate it because of its place in the web of US music 'evolution'.
I DO really dig bluegrass/banjo/dobro style music along the lines of that in O Brother Where Out Thou and the Travis picking of Lindsey Buckingham, cause it's just that 'million note a minute' raw talent. But then I guess that's more 'folk' than 'country'. What about calling it 'country folk' music?? lol
 
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