Agony - Original hard rock...rough cut

Bruthish

Hair Metal Roxx!
Been a while since my last submission. Updated my computer and a new Headrush board and this is the first from it.

First of all.....really rough...gonna need to go back a clean a bunch of stuff up. Just wanted some initial thoughts. Started this song yesterday and not much mixing, polishing, and perfecting yet.
Lyrics:

Somehow a change came to be
Somewhere I left the golden road
But now I am back in line
The agony I left behind

The air I breathe, is not mine to give
The pain I feel, shall keep me alive
But now I am back in line
The enemy I left behind

Treachery, against all my thoughts
prefacing how my time will end
But now I am back in line
the agony I left behind

OLD:


New 3/23

 
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BCF1

Member
Can't really make any comments on mix or production as I'm listening on my phone(yikes!)
I definitely dig the the track and genre. A little A.I.C with the crawling, seething feel...
Yes, i like this
Will give it a proper listen later this evening and provide more thoughts. Great job
 

Bruthish

Hair Metal Roxx!
Thanks for the listen! After listening to it on other sources I see some things are really off like the crashes and such.
 

jonlint

Member
Hi there,

Thanks for sharing. I am a huge AIC fan and write a lot of songs with a similar vibe, so you got my attention. Love the song man! Production wise of course improvement is possible, but the song structure comes first. I like it a lot. If you want some advise on how to improve the production, I am happy to provide from my humble experience.
 

Bruthish

Hair Metal Roxx!
Hey thanks for the comments. AIC is a big influence for sure but it wasn’t intended as such. Just came up with a riff and tried to get decent vocal harmonies and it just came out. I have a couple things I am hoping to change tomorrow and will post the update! Thanks again!
 

Bruthish

Hair Metal Roxx!
Updated link in first post. Tightened up the vocals a bit and tried to make a couple of the cymbals less harsh.

Update#2 : There was some sour notes in the lead part at beginning and tried to fix those. May have to re-do. Also did a little EQ on Gits
 
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NL5

Unpossible!
Overall, I think it sounds pretty good. I'd push up the main vox in the center up a bit still. Guitars sound good. Bass seems a bit loud on my monitors - but I like the tone of it. There is something about the drums though, that I can't put my finger on. What did you do on the drum tracks? What reverb are you using? Did you mic the bottom of the snare?
 

Stratomaster

Active member
Nice groove-Love the beat, guitars sound great-really jumping out of the speakers and tight playing. Bass sounds great...I think the vocals could be arranged to be sure the words are at least barely audible, the high voice obscures the lower voice that's carrying in the verses imo. The drums are doing the job-sometimes they sound great, sometimes it seems like they drag. The roomy sound..is that straight from drum program or a verb plugin? The high hat verb in the quieter verse section is a bit distracting..My ear wants to hear a longer decay on the snare.. Listening again..it might be that the vocals are ahead of the beat that makes the drums sound draggy in a few spots. Overall the mix is great, the heaviness of the groove is translating, it sounds big and full but not harsh. Nice work!
 

Bruthish

Hair Metal Roxx!
Overall, I think it sounds pretty good. I'd push up the main vox in the center up a bit still. Guitars sound good. Bass seems a bit loud on my monitors - but I like the tone of it. There is something about the drums though, that I can't put my finger on. What did you do on the drum tracks? What reverb are you using? Did you mic the bottom of the snare?

Thanks for the listen....I was wondering if anyone would comment on the bass being too loud as I thought it may be a touch loud but it drives the song so I was going with it. NO mic'ing the kit bro....programmed by yours truly. But yes, I have a hard time with getting the snare to sound right. I will look back into it and see if I can adjust a little. Thanks!
 

Bruthish

Hair Metal Roxx!
Nice groove-Love the beat, guitars sound great-really jumping out of the speakers and tight playing. Bass sounds great...I think the vocals could be arranged to be sure the words are at least barely audible, the high voice obscures the lower voice that's carrying in the verses imo. The drums are doing the job-sometimes they sound great, sometimes it seems like they drag. The roomy sound..is that straight from drum program or a verb plugin? The high hat verb in the quieter verse section is a bit distracting..My ear wants to hear a longer decay on the snare.. Listening again..it might be that the vocals are ahead of the beat that makes the drums sound draggy in a few spots. Overall the mix is great, the heaviness of the groove is translating, it sounds big and full but not harsh. Nice work!

Thanks for the detailed analysis! I never really listened to the high-hat verb in detail so I will have to go back and listen and see if I can hear an issue. I totally get the dragging vocals...It was literally one take and tried to sound "laid back"....maybe I snoozed I little too much on it lol. BTW the drum verb is straight from AD2 and I didn't add any to the bus at all. Is the "roomy sound" bad? I was actually going for a little more than is in this take but maybe its ok?
 

Stratomaster

Active member
Thanks for the detailed analysis! I never really listened to the high-hat verb in detail so I will have to go back and listen and see if I can hear an issue. I totally get the dragging vocals...It was literally one take and tried to sound "laid back"....maybe I snoozed I little too much on it lol. BTW the drum verb is straight from AD2 and I didn't add any to the bus at all. Is the "roomy sound" bad? I was actually going for a little more than is in this take but maybe its ok?

I thought that was AD2 since i use it also...I didn't mean to sound so specific with "high hat reverb" when they're trashy they sound fine but the closed hits i hear that smearing sound that i recognize from the ad2 room sound, it always sounds better to me before its rendered for some reason...But yeah at times these could pass for real drums which is impressive, it's the times that they don't that i notice. What kit is it?
 

Bruthish

Hair Metal Roxx!
I thought that was AD2 since i use it also...I didn't mean to sound so specific with "high hat reverb" when they're trashy they sound fine but the closed hits i hear that smearing sound that i recognize from the ad2 room sound, it always sounds better to me before its rendered for some reason...But yeah at times these could pass for real drums which is impressive, it's the times that they don't that i notice. What kit is it?

It's the Fairfax Transparent room as my start...its got the Gretsch Stop sign toms, Tama Starclassic Kick and Ludwig Black beauty snare. For the High-hat I am using the Iveson 16" custom.

I have been comparing this song also with others and there seems to be a muffled build-up in low mids. It may be the bass so I will have to go back and do a re-mix.
 

fakas

Member
Nice song!
I'd add a little more "weight on the snare" and for me the toms at the solo part are too muffled and a bit out of tune.

Cheers!
 

Chili

Site Moderator
I think, too, there is some mid-low build up. But before making EQ edits on the master buss, you should revisit the tone of the bass. Gotta say, it is not coming out the way I think you want it to. Or, at least, I'd like to hear a more distortion on it to make it cut through the mix. Then after that, sculpt the guitar parts to fit around the bass. I bet that would clear the lower end up a bit. I think you're cranking up the bass to get it heard and it is bringing out the freqs you don't want to emphasize. Well, that's how I hear it anyway.

There is a missed note in the first measure or two that is pretty noticeable.

All else is good. You definitely do the genre justice.
 

The Rocker

New member
HI, just listened... It's need a good mix and it could rock your head off... There's room for clarity and I hear a lot of room for space. To be honest I'd have to say I would address the mix differently and the outcome would be more of what you'd like probably.
WIthout knowing how you addressed things, dig the mud out everywhere. Tighten some things to gain room for space. EQ and compress for separation and excitement. High and Low Pass with panning will give room for separation, but make it groove with automation on reverbs and delays... Saturation will help too...

THat's just off the top of my head. Be too much to dive in individual instruments. But apply the above for everything, including making sure the song doesn't fall apart sonicly if something is muted. And check in Mono after instrument edits are complete each time adding a track to the mix.

It could be an untreated room is what I hear. I wouldn't be able to tell with out tossing the tracks in the daw here.

Following,,, Like the song :D
Have fun, that's why we are here, we love this stuff !!!
 

Bruthish

Hair Metal Roxx!
I think, too, there is some mid-low build up. But before making EQ edits on the master buss, you should revisit the tone of the bass. Gotta say, it is not coming out the way I think you want it to. Or, at least, I'd like to hear a more distortion on it to make it cut through the mix. Then after that, sculpt the guitar parts to fit around the bass. I bet that would clear the lower end up a bit. I think you're cranking up the bass to get it heard and it is bringing out the freqs you don't want to emphasize. Well, that's how I hear it anyway.

There is a missed note in the first measure or two that is pretty noticeable.

All else is good. You definitely do the genre justice.

I agree with everything you said. The bass is more than likely the culprit. I actually have two bass tracks running...one clean and one distorted. But the low mids/tone is bringing the mud I believe. I am off today so gonna play around with it some more. Thanks for the listen!
 

Bruthish

Hair Metal Roxx!
HI, just listened... It's need a good mix and it could rock your head off... There's room for clarity and I hear a lot of room for space. To be honest I'd have to say I would address the mix differently and the outcome would be more of what you'd like probably.
WIthout knowing how you addressed things, dig the mud out everywhere. Tighten some things to gain room for space. EQ and compress for separation and excitement. High and Low Pass with panning will give room for separation, but make it groove with automation on reverbs and delays... Saturation will help too...

THat's just off the top of my head. Be too much to dive in individual instruments. But apply the above for everything, including making sure the song doesn't fall apart sonicly if something is muted. And check in Mono after instrument edits are complete each time adding a track to the mix.

It could be an untreated room is what I hear. I wouldn't be able to tell with out tossing the tracks in the daw here.

Following,,, Like the song :D
Have fun, that's why we are here, we love this stuff !!!

Absolutely. The link that was posted was the second edit...so I didn't yet "going through and clean it up" yet. Hopefully can start today with some of those things you mentioned. Thanks for the listen!
 

Bruthish

Hair Metal Roxx!
OK spent a few hours today and really not not sure I got anywhere with it. I took some of your all's suggests and tried to make it work. Found some EQ plugs that shouldn't have been in place so it was like I was DBL EQ'ing some things which could have caused issues. Worked the bass to try and settle it down some. Let me know what you think.

 

NL5

Unpossible!
BTW the drum verb is straight from AD2 and I didn't add any to the bus at all. Is the "roomy sound" bad? I was actually going for a little more than is in this take but maybe its ok?

I think this may be what's bugging me about the drums. If it were me, I'd remove all the verb from the drum program, and send them to whatever verb you are using for the rest of the song. That would help them glue with the rest f the song I think, and help them to sound less fake.
 
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