Aborting Sound Projects Mic Testing.

[Harvey Gerst]

Aborting Studio Projects Mic Testing.

After this exchange with Alan Hyatt in George Massenburg's forum, I've decided to stop evaluating the rest of the Studio Projects line of microphones. My reasons are listed in my answer to Alan below:

Originally posted by Alan Hyatt:
I can understand Harvey's and other's initial reaction of perhaps feeling gypped out of a bunch of screws, but this is simply not the case. This is a case of newer technology at work.
I hope this will satisfy the groups concern over this matter.

"Feeling gypped out of a bunch of screws"? Damn, that's a pretty cheap shot, isn't it, Alan? I open up the mic, I'm impressed with it, but then, I find a ring with a lotta holes for screws (just like the ring on the front of the capsule), but only two screws holding it in place. Do I feel like I've been gypped outta some screws, or am I concerned about QC?

Let's say that I take the wheel covers off my brand new car, only to discover that one of the wheels is only held on with two screws, but the wheel has screw holes for all the missing screws. Do I feel like I've been "gypped outta some screws" or do I wonder if this is normal?

Notice I didn't say in the report "this is fucked", I wasn't sure if that was the way it was supposed to look. And so I called you ASAP to find out if that was normal. And then I immediately commented in all the newsgroups that this was normal; I didn't take any cheap shots at your decision to just use two screws, and I went on to praise the sound of the C1 mic.

I'm getting the impression that you don't really want these mics looked at very hard, or real evaluations made, Alan. You' seem to be just looking for fast, glowing reviews that you can use to plaster the newsgroups. I told you up front that I won't play that game. My reputation is more important to me than that. Sad really, because I think your mics woulda turned out pretty good in my tests, but maybe it annoys you that I'm not comparing them to Neumann U87s and C12s.

Anyway, my tests are over on your mics, Alan. Sorry to have wasted your time. I'll send them to Tom Cram if you'd like, or to Ty Ford, your choice. I'll even pay for shipping them, to get them outta here. Tom or Ty will both provide you with an honest evaluations. Ty is a real expert at mic testing.

My conclusions? The C1 seems to be a good value, but without listening to a second unit, I can't comment on it's reliability or consistency. When I receive the second C1, I'll pass it on to whomever you want to use to continue the tests. Maybe another tester will be more tractable.

Respectfully,

Harvey Gerst,
Bottom-Feeder

 

[8trackmind]

Thank you Harvey,

You seem to be a smart and knowledgable guy,your insight and expertise is much appreciated here.Sorry to hear no more testing will be done on your part.

 

[alanhyatt]

Harvey,

Like you said to me on the phone yesterday, its a matter of perception on these groups, and you took it wrong, or I said it wrong. It is not like the telephone, you are right about that.

There were several posts on the capsule and one of them mentioned that they were gypped because they did not get all the screws on the rear. I posted my initial thoughts to address that issue on another group because you said you also had a concern about it, and Teller also asked if I would comment on it, so I did which is why I used your name because you referenced that concern of the missing screws.

If my post came out to make it look like you said it, it was not meant that way. I did not intentionally mean to say you were gypped, I only meant to reference that that was said. I am sorry, but what else can I say.

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Re: Thank you Harvey,

You seem to be a smart and knowledgable guy,your insight and expertise is much appreciated here.Sorry to hear no more testing will be done on your part.

If I'm gonna be fair in testing these things, I don't want the manufacturer putting a lotta spin on my findings while I'm still evaluating the damn things. A simple "two screws are normal since the rear diaphragm is epoxied in place" woulda been just fine - the "Harvey feeling gypped out of a bunch of screws" bit was way over the line for me. That kinda shit I don't need.

If Stephen Paul or Klaus Heynes comments on the mics, I'll post their findings here as well. I wish Alan a lot of success with his new line, but I won't associate my name with them, since I never finished testing them. This will give me more time to finish up the mic design thread anyway, so there is a bright side to it.

 

[JerryD]

Just doing honest reviews.

I agree with Harvey. When you do a review of a mic your looking at everything. Missing screws would be questionable. He didn't say the mic wasn't any good. He just said it was missing some damn screws.

I'm wondering why they used two screws. Maybe one screw could have held it together long enough to sell.

 

[alanhyatt]

JerryD,

Harvey has a lot of support on this group, so I expect all will support him, and I am not looking for anything other than to set the record straight.

If Harvey wants to drop the test, I can’t stop him. I suppose I can't convince the group of my intention to which I said what I said.

I only remember somewhere someone posting something about being gypped, or getting screwed, so when I replied to the other group, I was simply addressing the concerns of the people who stated they were missing screws, or got gypped.

I want to make it clear that what I was addressing was and I quote "others" concerns, and it was the "others" that I was referring to as some of them said they were getting gypped or getting screwed. I did not mean Harvey said he got screwed.

Like I said, he took it wrong, and he posted my words for all to see. It clearly says: I can understand Harvey's and others initial reaction.

So that is what it is I was referring to, the "other" reactions, not Harvey’s. So yes, it is a shame, as I am not guilty of Harvey's interpretation.

Sorry it turned out this way.

 

[tubedude]

Damn allen, you aren't having any luck around here are ya? I think maybe the sudden heat has gotten to everyone a little or something. It gets this way from time to time on here.
Harvey, sorry to hear you're dropping the review... we were all looking forward to it... so far it had been quite a thorough review, far more than I would have expected.
<sigh> there is a disturbance in the force....

 

[Dot]

My SP mic tests are still on.

Actually, Alan is having quite a lot of luck w/ people who are actually listening to and using the Studio Projects mics. I have had many people of various levels of expertise email me or post in forums thanking me for my enthusiastic C1 recommendations, and commenting on how the C1 far surpassed their expectations. In many cases the C1 is now their "mic of choice" for a large condenser – and this is not just A/B'ed w/ Marshall mics, but also Neumanns, Gefells, Shures and AKGs.

I have written a "first impressions" review on the C1 with which I started the thread in GM's forum, and that review was just a cleaned-up version of the original response I posted at the VSPlanet – which is now linked from the front page of the Studio Projects site. I will continue to post my impressions of the C1 as I use it in more varied applications. I have also made arrangements w/ Studio Projects to audition the T3 valve mic as well as the VTP-1 mic pre when it's ready.

I don't work for Studio Projects, I am just someone who feels strongly that Alan and his company have introduced another David into a market overrun w/ Goliaths.

– Dan Richards

 

[Tekker]

Harvey, sorry to hear you're dropping the review... we were all looking forward to it... so far it had been quite a thorough review, far more than I would have expected.

Well now that everything is straightened out (everything IS straightened out, right?) then maybe Harvey doesn't have to pass on the review..... (?) Because I too was looking forward to this review. It's not everyday (at least not for me anyway) that you can get first class equipment reviews on equipment from a completely unbiased source, (magazines?...., webpages?....sometimes). But sometimes it's hard to filter out the hype from the actual truth about the products online, which is exactly what Harvey was doing for us.

Thanx Harvey for doin' what your doin' for us here, we all appreciate it very, (VERY) much.

(I really hope you decide to not drop the review)

-tkr

 

[Tom Cram]

Right on!

Harvey I applaud your integrity. I started out life as a journalist (quickly derailed by music). And you cannot be expected to review a product/business/service with the proprietor countering your every comment.

I had this happen once when I was writing for The Park Record. I was reviewing a new art museum/store and the owner came down to the offices to "assist" me. Right in the bullpen, right in front of my peers (my editor was at lunch) he started editing my copy. After a frustrating half an hour, I looked him in the eye and said "I think I'll forgo the review of your store and do a story about this instead." He apologized and hastily left.

I don't think that he was intentionally derailing the process, he just got caught up. He needed someone to reel him in. Some people get in "Sales Weasel" mode and can't stop (it's a sickness). However, some people are just control freaks, plain and simple. Time and action will tell which one Alan is. Alan is getting hit from all sides on a lot of different bbs' for a lot of different reasons. Some valid, some not, IMHO.

Adversity brings out the best and the worst in people.

Tom Cram
dbx Senior Technical Support
(801) 568-7530
tcram@dbxpro.com

 

[CyanJaguar]

yo dot,

I feel your opinion on the c1. Its got me hyped up. But can you post some mp3s already?.

You can go through the hhb radius 40. I would like to hear a comparison between say a tlm 103, a rode ntk, and the c1.

THe owner of the company does not make any big claims, just that he sells a good mic at a good price( well, prorec said the best $200 mic you ever heard,) but if you could post vocal examples comparing this mic to the 103 or ntk, then we will all be much more inclined to believe you, and in our best interest too, cos we'll be getting a tlm103 beater for less than a third of the price.

So what do you say mate?.

 

[BBB]

Re: Right on!

I had this happen once when I was writing for The Park Record. I was reviewing a new art museum/store and the owner came down to the offices to "assist" me. Right in the bullpen, right in front of my peers (my editor was at lunch) he started editing my copy. After a frustrating half an hour, I looked him in the eye and said "I think I'll forgo the review of your store and do a story about this instead." He apologized and hastily left.

Nice point Tom. I'm all for Alan's input because I'm interested in the decisions and tradeoffs he's made in designing the mic. However, in light of your insight here, Harvey should be allowed to conduct his review without being challenged at every step of the way. Some rebuttal is fine, as long as it isn't incessant (don't ask me to delineate where incenssancy starts)

Matt

 

[Dougie Johnson]

No Harvey!!!

ABORTION IS WRONG!!!
Please bring this beautiful baby you've been carrying into it's birthing phase.
Or I'll call Operation Mic Resue on your behind.
Bottom Feeder, my nads!
You are the most knowlegable person on mics to have EVER graced these pages.

 

[MISTERQCUE]

I very rarely visit the mic forum as I often do my own A/B/C/D comparisons at Sammy's or various NYC studios, but d@mnnnn, this was deep. A whole lotta' info in just 1 thread. Keep it up guys!

BTW, I taught Harvey everything he know's about mics!!!!

 

[Harvey Gerst]

Re: No Harvey!!!

Originally posted by Dougie Johnson Bottom Feeder, my nads!
You are the most knowlegable person on mics to have EVER graced these pages.

If that's really true, then we're in a whole lot more trouble than everybody realises.

 

[gibs]

Harvey, I never post in this forum, but I read it often.....I'm pretty ignorant of the differences (other than the really obvious i.e. karioke/radshak vs. marshall/rhode etc.).....and that's why I don't open my mouth here......but I love to listen in.....I wish you'd re-consider doing the comparison, but I also would respect your not doing so because you feel you got screwed, pun intended.........gibs


(northeast texas guy who only has a silly carvin CM 68 and some unknown pawn shop mics plus one really ancient Realistic 33-1071 (made in Japan circa 1977 before radshak put the store name on stuff..... it's a CARDIOID DYNAMIC MICROPHONE!...lol)

 

[Harvey Gerst]

I intend to keep on testing the Studio Projects mic line.

 

[gibs]

Thanks!!!!...on behalf of all the mic-challenged folks here, of which I'm the most in need!.....gibs

 

[Fab4ever]

Thanks, Harvey, from one of the hundreds of readers of your threads!

 

[Recording Engineer]

Well To Be Fair...

...Bruce Bartlett and Stephen Paul have posted on these pages too. Stephen had his throat jump-down enough by one to not want to come-back and I do know what happened with Bruce.