A Guide to a Louder Mix

Anybody else rock one of these? I was pretty little, but had one.

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I remember my first portable CD player as well, like big ass brick. I think I got 5 hours on a set of batteries, no skip or shock protection. Bought it early 90s. The one I had before going ipod ran on one AA battery, was just a little bigger than a CD, read mp.3 discs and had so much skip protection I don't think I ever got it to skip. haha
 
Regardless this is an interesting topic. If you guys are talking about the overall volume of the finalized tune, this really is important. I personally have a hard time getting my mixes to the same level as a pro mix. I'm guessing it's my gear that is lacking here. I'm guessing that my meters are telling me I'm at a certain level, but I'm far from it. So maybe it's a calibration issue.

Good reading! Thanks

Thanks!
 
dbogdan said:
Regardless this is an interesting topic. If you guys are talking about the overall volume of the finalized tune, this really is important. I personally have a hard time getting my mixes to the same level as a pro mix. I'm guessing it's my gear that is lacking here. I'm guessing that my meters are telling me I'm at a certain level, but I'm far from it. So maybe it's a calibration issue.

Good reading! Thanks

Thanks!
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I seriously doubt it has anything to do with your meter calibration. RMS is a very rough calculation.

Your monitoring and listening environment are the most important issue after experience with critical listening. Getting the frequency balance set without destroying the transient information is key.
 
Mo Facta said:
WHY do we have an obsession with LOUD?
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because louder mixes sell better, it's a fact of the industry. go do your research. a good record isn't worth shit if its not gonna get sold. music is a business, sorry to let you down.

it would be less of an issue if anyone actually listened to CDs anymore cause you can change the volume. but if you have an itunes playlist, which is now what almost EVERY consumer is using, they're gonna be pissed when they have to keep going back and fucking with the knob when they're trying to have a party or just hang out.

So please, take your obsessive irrelevant views elsewhere, because us recording engineers need to get paid and eat tonight, and its not gonna happen with a quiet record.
 
Isn't this a "home" recording forum? WTF do we care about you barcode mongers? Go ahead and smash and distort your pre-fab Disney music for the mindless hordes and leave us alone!

BTW - there are in fact "real" working engineers out there who somehow manage to make a living with opinions very much like those you are flaming. Perhaps you've heard of this dude named Albini? Made this record in the 90s that debuted at #1 and sold over 3 million copies?

PPS - iTunes, WMP, and most of the other popular player apps have ways of normalizing the levels between tracks that they play, so if your playlist is all over the place its due to your laziness.
 
ashcat_lt said:
Isn't this a "home" recording forum? WTF do we care about you barcode mongers? Go ahead and smash and distort your pre-fab Disney music for the mindless hordes and leave us alone!

BTW - there are in fact "real" working engineers out there who somehow manage to make a living with opinions very much like those you are flaming. Perhaps you've heard of this dude named Albini? Made this record in the 90s that debuted at #1 and sold over 3 million copies?

PPS - iTunes, WMP, and most of the other popular player apps have ways of normalizing the levels between tracks that they play, so if your playlist is all over the place its due to your laziness.
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motivator806e949cb1de6e22455c7fee0ccce7b2ab1f126b.jpg
 
Yep, that's me! Haven't recorded anything but amp sims and drum triggers in 20 years. Bailed on analog technology ASAFP. The epitome of elitist, purist, audiophile snobbery.

The point I was trying to make is that this is a forum - a place where folks can have a discussion and offer opinions without being told to fuck off. I can see how that would be lost since I kind of got down in the mud with the prick. I was also trying to point out that we are in it for a variety of reasons, and $$$ is not necessarily the driving factor for many of us.
 
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AlecBeretz said:
because louder mixes sell better, it's a fact of the industry. go do your research. a good record isn't worth shit if its not gonna get sold. music is a business, sorry to let you down.

it would be less of an issue if anyone actually listened to CDs anymore cause you can change the volume. but if you have an itunes playlist, which is now what almost EVERY consumer is using, they're gonna be pissed when they have to keep going back and fucking with the knob when they're trying to have a party or just hang out.

So please, take your obsessive irrelevant views elsewhere, because us recording engineers need to get paid and eat tonight, and its not gonna happen with a quiet record.
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Don't read much, do you?
 
Tom, Thanks for responding. If the masters you kicked out at your place were 3 to 6 db quieter than anyone else's you would be a little concerned too.

In reference to your comment. I do agree that is the most important thing, however, I truly believe it IS a calibration issue, and I'll tell you why. When I get tracks in from other studios and I look at the tracks themselves, they are pretty hot. Usually between -4 and -2db on my meters and on the track view. They are basically ready to clip as far as my equipment is concerned. They tell me they sent the track at -6 to -8, so right there I know there is a difference. I cannot even get close to these levels without doing all kinds of things such as highlight the track and increase the gain multiple times, short of normalizing to get it there. I shouldn't have to do that. I should have the luxury of destroying any track I like if I want to :-) by goosing the faders. My end result on a good day is a max of around -8 until I do the tweaks. If I don't do the above, the results sound good, but the recording is noticeably quieter.

Another example is: I set my board faders for 0, say on a mic'ed guitar track, raising and lowering a little so the DAW is peaking at -3 tops. I do the recording and then get ready to play back. It comes out as -15 thru -8 on the track view. As far as I am concerned, the recorded track in this case should be peaking at -3 when I play it back or the same level it was recorded at. No effects, no compressors, no nothing in the chain. just mic/board/da converter/computater. (Sonar X1)

I'm at a loss as to where to start with this. Thanks again for your response.

Dave
 
The falling out of the Lone Ranger and Tonto......

AlecBeretz said:
go do your research. a good record isn't worth shit if its not gonna get sold. music is a business, sorry to let you down.

but if you have an itunes playlist, which is now what almost EVERY consumer is using, they're gonna be pissed when they have to keep going back and fucking with the knob when they're trying to have a party or just hang out.

So please, take your obsessive irrelevant views elsewhere, because us recording engineers need to get paid and eat tonight, and its not gonna happen with a quiet record.
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Woah, easy there now, Texas !

ashcat_lt said:
Isn't this a "home" recording forum? WTF do we care about you barcode mongers? Go ahead and smash and distort your pre-fab Disney music for the mindless hordes and leave us alone!

PPS - iTunes, WMP, and most of the other popular player apps have ways of normalizing the levels between tracks that they play, so if your playlist is all over the place its due to your laziness.
Click to expand...
Woooo, easy there now, Montana !
 
dbogdan said:
Another example is: I set my board faders for 0, say on a mic'ed guitar track, raising and lowering a little so the DAW is peaking at -3 tops. I do the recording and then get ready to play back. It comes out as -15 thru -8 on the track view. As far as I am concerned, the recorded track in this case should be peaking at -3 when I play it back or the same level it was recorded at. No effects, no compressors, no nothing in the chain. just mic/board/da converter/computer. (Sonar X1)
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When you say "board" is that a console that you're plugging mics into to go to a daw? What make and model? Also you would be going out of the console through a AD (analog to digital) converter if it's an analog board to get to the daw.

When you say it is peaking at -3 dBfs in the daw and then comes out on the track view as -15 thru -8.. Is the track view in the daw or console? does it still peak at -3 dB in the daw?

This seems more like a tracking / mixing situation and not so much a mastering situation (as I thought it was) and if that is the case it could be how your trims are set up on the console or how your converters are calibrated or any number of things.

Here is a chart to help understand how the levels would differ from the analog console to the digital metersAnalogue - Digital scale.JPG
 
Nice chart! And this is all about the DAW, not the console. And you are correct, it is more about tracking, not mastering, however I do some mastering as well. If I attempt to master what I record here I have the same issue. Sorry I wasn't clear enough. I'm using a Tascam M-1600 analog console. There's 4 - 25 pin cables that attach into 2 M-Audio Delta 1010 AD/DA converters. From there on to the DAW. This gives me the ability to record 16 tracks at once (direct out, bypassing the standard 8 bus and mains).

All the metering I am referring to (except for initially setting up a reference point for the mics on the analog console somewhere near zero) is on the DAW. So, I adjust the levels on the analog console to make the meters on the DAW peak around -3. This is actual input from the instrument, driving the mic through the chain of equipment to the DAW to make the meter of the DAW software console do it's thing. Then I do a take. I expect to see the same levels at playback on the DAW software console. Here in lies the issue. The software console will not show the original levels, nor does the actual track in track vue.

Thank you so much for reading this. And it sounds to me that you are agreeing this is a calibration issue. I'm beginning to think it's between the software and the disk. I don't even know if that makes sense.
 
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