A/D Converters

[gcapel]

BTW guys, don't listen to the guys in Guitar Center or Sam Ash when they say there isn't a difference between converters on an apogee vs the brand (presonus, etc..) that they have in stock. They are just trying to sale you something right then and there.

 

[fraserhutch]

uhhhh, hellooooooooo......... if you take the advice of anyone who works at GC, you deserve what you get

BTW guys, don't listen to the guys in Guitar Center or Sam Ash when they say there isn't a difference between converters on an apogee vs the brand (presonus, etc..) that they have in stock. They are just trying to sale you something right then and there.

 

[boulty]

It's DI, so the room is out of the equation as well - pretty much the engineer too.

They were played back at the same studio with the same gear as well.....

Was the DI going into a high quality pre aswell though? that would have affect the sound aswell.

Also, regarding that goodyear tyre analogy, I think it's incorrect as I would consider monitoring and converters as the engine not the tyres.

 

[chessrock]

I'm sorry, but the only way a valid comparison could have been made was if you were to lug your Delta 1010 in to the studio with you and compare it head-to-head with all other conditions being equal.

I'm not saying the Apogee isn't better. It very well might be worlds better ... but to think that you've somehow made a valid comparison isolating the conversion as the only variable is pretty naive. Better monitoring will help you make much more valid decisions when tweaking the tone knobs. Simply playing on a different day will have at least some effect.

I realize this is a board full of musicians and all ... and musicians aren't the most scientific breed to say the least. That said, I think there is a lot that some people around here could learn about how to conduct a valid comparison.
.

 

[BRIEFCASEMANX]

BTW guys, don't listen to the guys in Guitar Center or Sam Ash when they say there isn't a difference between converters on an apogee vs the brand (presonus, etc..) that they have in stock. They are just trying to sale you something right then and there.

I would have stopped your post at "don't listen to the guys in Guitar Center or Sam Ash."

 

[mef_1975]

A/D converters weren't the only difference...

On the first reply SuperHuman posted he mentioned that the speakers were different too...

"The monitors in the studio no doubt had a large roll to play, they were a set of Genelec's as opposed to my own Tannoy Reveals. "

 

[fraserhutch]

Oops, yeah, there was a lot of differences in the chain.

 

[NL5]

On the first reply SuperHuman posted he mentioned that the speakers were different too...

"The monitors in the studio no doubt had a large roll to play, they were a set of Genelec's as opposed to my own Tannoy Reveals. "

"I recorded a few riffs at home with the idea of importing them into a studio project but after they were loaded into ProTools and played alongside fresh studio recordings using the same gear (except for the AD converter) the sound was very different. The Delta recordings sounded kind of flat along side the Apogee which was brighter and seemed to have more depth and clarity."

Ooops - apparently, I thought him saying that everything was the same except the for the AD converter meant that everything was the same except the for the AD converter. How stupid of me.

Anyway - I will say this with 100% accuracy. In MY experience, converters made a hell of a lot more difference than preamps (that are always the topic of discussion on how to get great sound). I think the pre is the LAST thing that matters in the chain. I have used Maudio, MOTU, Kurzweil, Eventide, and Apogee converters - I have had 4 outta 5 in here at one time, and could a/b/c them. Granted, it was not a Blind test, but none-the-less, the difference to me was HUGE. RNP to Great River/API - not nearly as big of a difference.

Maudio converters can make a decent recording, no doubt, but there is quite a difference between them and a "pro" quality converter.

Anyway, I am not looking for a pissing contest - truth is, the musician, room, and instrument make the most difference. I just built a somewhat pro control room and WOW - what a difference - best place to put your money IMHO.

Peace.

 

[tmix]

- truth is, the musician, room, and instrument make the most difference. I just built a somewhat pro control room and WOW - what a difference - best place to put your money IMHO.

Peace.

I agree. I know it ALL makes SOME difference, and I also realise some folks don't have the luxury of more that a 10 by 10 bedroom. But a good recording and mixing environment and good instruments and players makes a lot more difference.
Do I want better A/D converters? HECK YEAH!

 

[MadMax]

When I upgraded from my Alesis Monitor 1's to my JBL LSR 28p's, I noticed a huge difference. It changed everything.

When I upgraded from my Delta 1010 to the RME Fireface, I noticed an audible difference. The Fireface sounded noticeably better.

When I finally got around to treating my control room, I noticed a difference. Not HUGE, but I can hear the bass better and my mixes now translate better.

When I got a Royer 121, I noticed a WORLD of difference between that and a 57 on guitars. Definitely different, and now after listening for a month or so, I like it better on Marshall cabinets. But I still use the two together. The combination is now my go to guitar sound.

When I built my SCA preamps (which to date has been my biggest single $$$ investment) it has made a difference over my A&H console pre's. Is it worth the $2300 they cost? Depends on my financial situation. They don't make as much difference as any of the other stuff, but they add something, and I like it.

When I got my Microtech Gefell M930 and plugged it into an SCA A12, it just sounds good. No artifacts, no bumps, just good, clear and clean. A noticeable step up from my SP C-1 into A&H pre.

I feel that my studio is now complete and all of the big buxx spending is behind me. I have some nice tools to work with and upgrading from where I am now is pointless.

 

[fraserhutch]

You say that now.... give it a month.......

I feel that my studio is now complete and all of the big buxx spending is behind me. I have some nice tools to work with and upgrading from where I am now is pointless.

 

[ozraves]

I currently have a rack mounted M-Audio Delta 1010, the sound has always been pristine to my ears. Recently I went to a studio and recorded a bunch of guitar tracks through an Apogee AD8000... the difference on sound quality was mind blowing! The Delta 1010 looks the business on paper and untill now I never thought otherwise... do I have it set up wrong (interface settings) or is the AD8000 actually THAT much better??

Anyone got any tips on how to get the most out of an AD converter? I record guitar and bass exclusively.

Cheers

Your experience pretty much sums up my feelings on the Delta 1010.

 

[NL5]

When I upgraded from my Delta 1010 to the RME Fireface, I noticed an audible difference. The Fireface sounded noticeably better.

I'm surprised there was that much difference between those two converters.

 

[chessrock]

Fellas ...


I gotta' be honest with ya, here. With all due respect and I don't mean any offense to anyone ... But I used to think the exact same way as some of you. I thought I heard a night and day difference between converters. I could have sworn up and down that I heard it plain as day.

Then I actually did a controlled test. We're talking a double-blind test between samples done through exactly the same signal chain ...same day, even the same performance/take in some circumstances. Quality monitors and quality listening environment.

Guys, I felt like a total dumbass. My ears tricked me, and I was duped.

There just wasn't that much of a difference. We're talking consumer-grade stuff like Delta 1010, 1010LT, Echo Audiofire, and Soundcarddeluxe. Against the Lucid 9624 and Apoge Rosetta.

Under controlled conditions and with levels matched ... there just wasn't that much of a difference between the 1010LT and the Apoge, to be completely honest with ya.

.

 

[FALKEN]

Under controlled conditions and with levels matched ... there just wasn't that much of a difference between the 1010LT and the Apoge, to be completely honest with ya.

.

fair enough. right now I am only using my converters to transfer in the master from tape. I recently upgraded to mytek from echo layla. I thought the difference was mind-blowing. Part of that might be that the mytek has better buit in dithering than the software I have. either way, the improvement was huge, and mostly in the low end.

Now, I'm not talking huge like the difference between a dynamic and a condenser, or huge like the difference between a fender and a marshall. more like the difference between an Am. std. strat and a squier. some people will argue for the squier all day long. and in the end, nobody is really right or wrong.

 

[chessrock]

Falken, I hear ya.

But I'm not really hearin ya until you tell me that you're basing this on a valid double-blind listening test, using sound testing methodology. We're talkin' all levels matched, same signal chain, using only balanced connections to balanced inputs, etc. etc. Exact same performance on the same day, etc. etc.

If you can tell me you did a test just like the one above, and you accurately distinguished between the two every time in a valid double-blind ... then I'll take your word as gospel.

Until then, you're just elevator music to me ... playin in the background. I can hear it and all. You're music's playin' but I'm not really listenin.'

.

 

[MadMax]

Sorry, Chess. I didn't need to do a calibrated double blind test to hear the difference between a 1010 and a Fireface. It's not night and day, but it's there.
Now preamps are a different story.

 

[FALKEN]

chess,

nah, no double blind test. I had just transfered in a mix from 1/4" using my layla and burned a cd and listened to my car a few times when the mytek came. installation took about 5 minutes and I re-printed the same mix, listened in my car, and noticed a huge improvement in the low end. It sounded a lot more like the original tape. I guess if anyone wants I could take one of their mixes, send it to 1/2", and back in again using the two different converters, using whatever parameters you want.

 

[NL5]

Chess -

Could you please explain your process for the double-blind test. I would like to conduct a similiar test to see if what I hear is indeed there or just a psychosomatic response.

 

[NL5]

Chess -

Could you please explain your process for the double-blind test. I would like to conduct a similiar test to see if what I hear is indeed there or just a psychosomatic response.

Awww, c'mon......