2014 Daw Build.

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ShanPeyton

ShanPeyton

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I think i need to build a DAW. (sorry jimmy69 i did message you once or twice and didn't respond in a very timely fashion, i am horrible at internet) I have been toying with the idea now for several months and have weighed my options between mac vs. pc and a few other questions. I am however stuck on a few things.

Is there a reference anywhere on this site or the internet that breaks down tracks per cpu? For instance, it would make sense to just go out and buy the top of the line processor but what if all you are recording are two acoustics, one vocal track and a mouth harp with a little verb on them? Does that warrant an i7 CPU? I am sort of lost here. I typically use between 16 to 30 tracks, 8 of those are Ezdrummer i may possibly expand to Superior Drummer. I use an eq on most of the other tracks plus all the other fixins? I have been told i fall into a weird grey area of an i5 being adequte but may not leave enough room to grow and an i7 would be overkill.

Then on top of all that when i go to price up an i5 and i7 processor they aren't ever just an i5 or an i7 there seems to be handfuls of incarnations of each one? With varying price options. What numbers are important to me when i see something like this >>> i7 4770 3.2 ghz? ???

This is job number one for now, i have 7.3 gigabytes of other questions but i think i need to solve this one first as it seems this is the brains of the operation

Lastly, does anyone else use the website pcpartpicker for their builds or parts? If so could you post a link to some builds completed or otherwise that could be used as a reference?
 
ShanPeyton said:
I think i need to build a DAW. (sorry jimmy69 i did message you once or twice and didn't respond in a very timely fashion, i am horrible at internet) I have been toying with the idea now for several months and have weighed my options between mac vs. pc and a few other questions. I am however stuck on a few things.

Is there a reference anywhere on this site or the internet that breaks down tracks per cpu? For instance, it would make sense to just go out and buy the top of the line processor but what if all you are recording are two acoustics, one vocal track and a mouth harp with a little verb on them? Does that warrant an i7 CPU? I am sort of lost here. I typically use between 16 to 30 tracks, 8 of those are i may possibly expand to Superior Drummer. I use an eq on most of the other tracks plus all the other fixins? I have been told i fall into a weird grey area of an i5 being adequte but may not leave enough room to grow and an i7 would be overkill.

Then on top of all that when i go to price up an i5 and i7 processor they aren't ever an i5 or an i7 there seems to be handfuls of incarnations of each one? With varying price options. What numbers are important to me when i see something like this >>> i7 4770 3.2 ghz? ???

This is job number one for now, i have 7.3 gigabytes of other questions but i think i need to solve this one first as it seems this is the brains of the operation

Lastly, does anyone else use the website pcpartpicker for their builds or parts? If so could you post a link to some builds completed or otherwise that could be used as a reference?
Click to expand...

Why get into the frustrating money pit of trying to get a computer to do something today's DAW software can't deliver? It's a money pit. There is no good or logical reason to track on a computer. It's expensive and there are better ways of doing it.

As to Mac vs PC, it's a toss up.

If you can write code design a DAW that works right. You will be rich beyond your wildest dreams. Test it and release it when it is no longer buggy betaware. Once it's good, don't fix what ain't broke.
 
SeesAll said:
Why get into the frustrating money pit of trying to get a computer to do something today's DAW software can't deliver? It's a money pit. There is no good or logical reason to track on a computer. It's expensive and there are better ways of doing it.
Click to expand...

So, I would like to know what is a better way. Please enlighten us.
 
ShanPeyton said:
I Does that warrant an i7 CPU? I am sort of lost here. I typically use between 16 to 30 tracks, 8 of those are Ezdrummer i may possibly expand to Superior Drummer. I use an eq on most of the other tracks plus all the other fixins? I have been told i fall into a weird grey area of an i5 being adequte but may not leave enough room to grow and an i7 would be overkill.

Then on top of all that when i go to price up an i5 and i7 processor they aren't ever just an i5 or an i7 there seems to be handfuls of incarnations of each one? With varying price options. What numbers are important to me when i see something like this >>> i7 4770 3.2 ghz? ???
Click to expand...

What I have found, is that VSTi take about a core each to run with plenty of power. So from what you described, you could get away with a Duo core cpu and 8mb ram (to be safe)

However, at this point why not just go with an i5 (Quad Core) and have the power to run more VSTi (s) or heavy load plugins. An i5 (setup properly) should run 4-8 VSTi and another 24 tracks of audio with it.

It requires some work and reading to set up a DAW but once you do it can be great fun. I run Cubase 7 on a Quad core and its a virtual 24 track studio, there are no bugs and it rarely stops working. I don't regret the time and investment I made at all
 
DM60 said:
So, I would like to know what is a better way. Please enlighten us.
Click to expand...

Yea, ditto that. I am guessing that might have been someone from the analog camp??

Thanks guys.

i'd like to budget in around 1000 - 1300 dollars. And that would be in funny Canadian money! HA!

Interesting, i have had some of my more nerdy friends piece together a few builds, and they have been building some pretty amazing workhorses in and around the 1000 dollar ranges. Now i think i just need to keep looking into the parts compatibility and stuff like that.

@PDP, what were your biggest hang ups setting everything up? Did you have a lot of windows tweaks to do? Which version of Windows did you go with?
 
I think that range should get you a nice rig, but depending on the software and determine if you want Firewire or PCI. I like PCI, but it is getting harder to really find mid-priced gear in PCI. Only issue I have read with Firewire (1394 is another name for it) is to get a Firewire PCI card that has the Texas Instrument Chip in it.

On the CPU, I like AMD, 6-8 core, but Intel's i7 chip is getting good reviews. I would not worry too much about graphics, get a good capable card, 1Gb's are pretty low, mine is like 512 and I don't have any issues. You could use the built in card (most mother boards's have them), but that uses RAM from the MB. You can try and add one in later if you performance is bad. 8 Gig of quality RAM, I also suggest a good quality power supply of 750+ watts. Give you plenty of power. 7200 RMP hard drive, not more than 1TB, I have a 2TB and it was causing performance issues, had to move everything back to the 500Gb and just use the 2TB for archives. The SSDs are coming down, 250GB is running about $150 US.

Interface, two major things to look for there is, make sure it has its own ASIO driver and the pre-amps are quality. Two channels work for many here, but if your recording drums, band, then you need obviously more. Tascam make a nice 8 channel, you can catch it on sale for maybe 300. Lots of good advice on here for that question.

I think others can add into this, but that is start at least.
 
Intel i7s outperform AMD, but come at a premium. A modern i7 (quad core with hyper threading, so can run 8 threads) will set you back ~£250 here, a decent i5 (quad core, 4 threads) is more like £150. There is decent on chip graphics on the Intels, but, as dm60 says above, this uses the main RAM. However, 16gb of good RAM is very affordable within your budget.

In my own build, I just use a 120gb SSD for windows, programs and projects and it works fine. I have Komplete libraries installed on a USB3 external drive and backup projects to a NAS. I researched and bought very quiet CPU cooler, case and power supply so my system is silent. You should consider whether this is important in your setup - it isn't so expensive to achieve.
 
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This site seems to have decent reviews of the latest processors: -

Processors rated | TechRadar

Interestingly, the i7 2600K I bought 3 years ago is not much outperformed by the latest prosumer level processors and is still as expensive, however, big improvements have been made to the onboard graphics.
 
I am looking at doing a similar build. I have a friend who is more knowledgeable than myself helping with the details. I am trying to achieve performance and also stay within a budget. I am thinking I will get an AMD 6 core processor. Is that a mistake? They are just so much cheaper than the Intel i7s.
 
Todays basic PCs outperform three year old cutting edge ones - but I've been recording on Cubase for so many years now, I can't remember the type of processors any longer. i5 or i7 is fine for practically everything unless you intend running lots of software synths and memory intensive stuff.

As for this
Why get into the frustrating money pit of trying to get a computer to do something today's DAW software can't deliver?
Click to expand...
I've no idea what this means - what software doesn't deliver? Seems rather a sweeping statement, that from my background, isn't right at all. I've not recording on actual hardware for so many years - the pile of ADAT tapes I can't play is quite big, but all the dates on them predate the century.
 
rob aylestone said:
Todays basic PCs outperform three year old cutting edge ones.
Click to expand...

That's not the case. Today's Haswell architecture processors don't bring much more performance than the Sandy Bridge processors of three years ago. The Ivy Bridge processors that came out in between are a die-shrink of the Sandy Bridge microarchitecture. The Haswell architecture mainly improves the on chip graphics. The recent major improvements that Intel were able to make were made in the Sandy Bridge chips.

This is probably why the Sandy Bridge (2nd generation Core chips) still cost the same as their Haswell (4th generation Core) counterparts.
 
SeesAll said:
Why get into the frustrating money pit of trying to get a computer to do something today's DAW software can't deliver? It's a money pit. There is no good or logical reason to track on a computer. It's expensive and there are better ways of doing it.

As to Mac vs PC, it's a toss up.

If you can write code design a DAW that works right. You will be rich beyond your wildest dreams. Test it and release it when it is no longer buggy betaware. Once it's good, don't fix what ain't broke.
Click to expand...

Good grief... where did you fly in from? :facepalm:
 
ShanPeyton said:
I think i need to build a DAW. (sorry jimmy69 i did message you once or twice and didn't respond in a very timely fashion, i am horrible at internet) I have been toying with the idea now for several months and have weighed my options between mac vs. pc and a few other questions. I am however stuck on a few things.

Is there a reference anywhere on this site or the internet that breaks down tracks per cpu? For instance, it would make sense to just go out and buy the top of the line processor but what if all you are recording are two acoustics, one vocal track and a mouth harp with a little verb on them? Does that warrant an i7 CPU? I am sort of lost here. I typically use between 16 to 30 tracks, 8 of those are Ezdrummer i may possibly expand to Superior Drummer. I use an eq on most of the other tracks plus all the other fixins? I have been told i fall into a weird grey area of an i5 being adequte but may not leave enough room to grow and an i7 would be overkill.

Then on top of all that when i go to price up an i5 and i7 processor they aren't ever just an i5 or an i7 there seems to be handfuls of incarnations of each one? With varying price options. What numbers are important to me when i see something like this >>> i7 4770 3.2 ghz? ???

This is job number one for now, i have 7.3 gigabytes of other questions but i think i need to solve this one first as it seems this is the brains of the operation

Lastly, does anyone else use the website pcpartpicker for their builds or parts? If so could you post a link to some builds completed or otherwise that could be used as a reference?
Click to expand...

I only skimmed through the replies and not sure if your questions were really answered. Mind you, it's only my opinion, so take it for what it's worth.... :o

The speed of the hard drive usually limits the total number of tracks you can have. 7200RPM drive seems ideal and I believe are readily available. I seriously doubt you would ever hit a limit on tracks. Your hard drive speed might also affect bit depth and sample rate; or rather be affected by bit depth and sample rate. 32 bit and 192khz can eat up a lot of hard drive space.

CPU power usually limits the number of processing plugs and synth type VSTi's. It will also be affected by bit depth and sample rate and my gut feel is it isn't linear. Double your sample rate and you eat more than double the processing power.

RAM limits total tracks and number of sample based VSTi's like EZD.

However, mixing audio doesn't take a whole lot of processing horsepower. I have an i7 based computer with 16 gig of ram and am doing basically the same projects as I was on a P4 with 2 gig of ram. I never had a problem with the P4. I only upgraded to do video work which does take a lot of processing power. And that raises another point, future proof yourself. Even though your projects now may not require a lot of processing power, you might want to give yourself some extra headroom so you're not looking at replacing your computer in a few years.

I buy most everything through Newegg. Never heard of pcparts site.
 
Chili said:
And that raises another point, future proof yourself. Even though your projects now may not require a lot of processing power, you might want to give yourself some extra headroom so you're not looking at replacing your computer in a few years.
Click to expand...

I second this. Get the best parts you can afford. A good i7 processor would be around a third of your budget, which is similar to my build, so you should be able to come out with a kickass machine.

A friend of mine installed a WD 7,200 drive recently and it was very noisy. He swapped it for a WD Green (5,400, I think) and it's silent. SSDs are also silent; worth bearing in mind.
 
A lot of really good points raised. I am actually focused on a quiet machine as everything i record is done in the same room mostly vocals and acoustic instruments so i had factored all that in.

What i wasn't aware of however was the issue with on board graphics using up ram. That was a huge piece of advice!!! I was going to try to get away from a dedicated graphics card, but i should probably spring for something in that department.

Thank chili and johnny deep for the future expansion advice. This is sort of the reason why i am attempting a home based build rather than go to best buy and buy a "top-o-the-line" HP or something like that. I think frankensteining together a little workstation really open up more doors for future expansion. Much more so than tricking out the aforementioned big box computer.

I had looked into some places that specifically made computers for the studio like MusicXPC and Rock Box i think it was called, but that stuff ended up being far more pricey than an imac for crying out loud!

I believe with the community here and on the pcpartspickers site i am going to end up with a pretty kick ass rig. Now i just need to make a dent in the Christmas debt and then order this stuff.

Santa found some snowboards at a boxing day sale that sort of trumped the home studio computer.
 
Onboard graphics works fine, but you will lose a little ram for the graphics - this isn't a problem if you have 16gb and as you're only running your DAW and plug in GUIs and some windows, it won't tax it too much. If you do go for a discrete graphics card, look for a fanless one. I can (and often do) recommend SeaSonic power supplies, Scythe Mugen CPU coolers, OCZ Agility SSD, Fractal R3 cases and Corsair Vengeance low profile ram (that fits under the cooler).
 
First a question: Why so focused on the processor architecture and speed? Clock speed is not a good measure of a processors performance by any stretch with modern DMI/QPI technology (Assuming Intel inside...). As for architecture, if you know what to look for, you may find that even an old core 2 or pentium will suffice. So, my first bit of advice is to read up a bit on modern processors GT/s rating. This little gem is real information about how many transactions the processor can handle per second. You will be surprised to find that not all processors are made equally in that, some 'slower' processors (2.0Ghz) for example will produce higher GT/s than 'faster' (2.5Ghz) processors. Why? I wish I knew enough about processor design and core technology to explain, but, take for example the very expensive Intel Xeon E5-4650L 8 way running at 2.6GHz. Is there a 'faster' i7, sure for example i7-3770K. Will the i7-3770K at 3.5Ghz process 8GT/s? H-E-double hockey sticks, no. So, before you hone in on a processor besed solely on an old marketing tactic (Processor speed), do your home work. That all said, is there a bad choice considering nearly any modern processor could probably cure cancer in a week if someone new the correct logic? No. With modern processors, what bottle necks solutions like computer based recording implementations are the surrounding components (us old computer dudes called them 'peripharals', now they are just called 'accessories' LOL). Yup, some monkey goes out and buys the most expensive processor they can find, cheap mobo using onboard sound and graphics with a 5400 RPM external drive and can't understand why their recordings pop or click or can't record more than 2 tracks with out issues or why their projects take 5 minutes to load. Indeed, the overall solution is key, not just any single component. I know this is a shock to some of our systems, but, the processor is no longer the single most important piece of the computing pie. Therefore, find a modern proc that is affordable and then move on to your other components. Certainly do look past 'Celeron' type processors but, you don't need a server class dual E5 8 way processor to record at home or even in s 'studio' (What ever that difference is..). As for the website to purchase parts, I recommend researching any site with a quick google search to look at their reviews. I personally order from newegg, not the cheapest perhaps, but, if I have an issue, I am not dealing with some 15 year old kid who figured out how e-commerce works, I get a real company who is authorized to actually sell the brand I am purchasing. Anyway, hope this helps a bit, best of luck!
 
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