20/24 channel mixer - suggestions?

[jpmorris]

I'm looking to upgrade from my Yamaha MG16/4, and I need something with at least 20 channels. I can get away with one or two being stereo pairs, but no more than that.

There are two units on ebay which have caught my eye at the moment, A Soundtracs Rx-8 (which has channel phase inverters and would probably fit in the existing space), and a Phonic MRS1/20, which may be a little too large and doesn't have phase inverters but which does have per-channel LED metering.
Both of these desk were around £1300 when new and are likely 12 and 9 years old respectively. Apparently the Phonic is NOS, the Soundtracs is used.

After that we have more modern offering like the Peavey PV20 and Soundcraft MPMi20 which are present-day offerings and the suspiciously-cheap Citronics CL204DSP which is probably made in China by slaves or something and has too many ganged channels anyway.

Cost and space are both factors, but at the same time I'd prefer to get something with a reasonable sound and life expectancy. I am not a great user of multiple buses so that is less of a concern.

Any comments on the above-mentioned boards?

 

[Bobbsy]

If when you say "upgrade" you are referring to more than just the channel count, frankly none of the mixers you list (with the possible exception of the Soundcraft) will be even as good as the Yamaha. Soundtracs have a reputation for being noisy, the Phonic build quality tends to be very poor and Peavey, well, is Peavey.

Frankly, I'd be looking for a good quality older Soundcraft or Allen & Heath rather than the ones you mention.

 

[sr71rules]

What's The Goal?

Why are you looking to upgrade? What are you trying to accomplish? Is this for the studio or live? How do you use the board? Pre-amps to a computer? Pre-amps to a tape machine? Will you mix through this board? Do you have any outboard gear?

That being said, I would skip the Phonic and the Peavy. I consider them on the same level as a Yamaha, a Behringer or a Samson. They are solid units, I'm sure, but they are not all that different sonically from each other. If you're looking to upgrade I would skip the common budget stuff and look around for something with a little character. Even the Soundcraft MPMi20 won't really get you a big change... better pres perhaps.

(Also, the Phonic MRS1/20 is a surround mixing board.. is that important?)

If you can explain what your goal is we can all probably chip in with a bit more helpful information. Also, is something wrong with your current board? Is it failing? Not meeting a need you have? The more detail you can offer, the better

Robert

 

[jpmorris]

Why are you looking to upgrade? What are you trying to accomplish? Is this for the studio or live? How do you use the board? Pre-amps to a computer? Pre-amps to a tape machine? Will you mix through this board? Do you have any outboard gear?

Right. I have recently acquired a 24-track TASCAM machine which I would like to exploit more fully than a 16-track desk with only 12 faders can manage.

The board is to be used solely for mixing to 2-track from line-level inputs. I am not planning to use the edge tracks for audio so a 20 channel unit is sufficient, though the full 24 might be useful for future expansion.

If you want to see a block diagram:
https://homerecording.com/bbs/gener...outing-topology-24-tracks-324850/#post3666926
...just mentally replace the TSR-8s with a single MSR-24 and you're there.

That being said, I would skip the Phonic and the Peavy. I consider them on the same level as a Yamaha, a Behringer or a Samson. They are solid units, I'm sure, but they are not all that different sonically from each other. If you're looking to upgrade I would skip the common budget stuff and look around for something with a little character. Even the Soundcraft MPMi20 won't really get you a big change... better pres perhaps.

Right. I'll admit I was suspicious of the Peavey somehow, and I have used a low-end Phonic board before.

Bottom line is that I need is more channels. If I can improve the sound over what I have at the moment that would be nice, but if all of these are roughly equal in sound quality, the chances are I simply won't be able to budget for something noticeably higher end.

I have a spring reverb which is the only outboard I'm currently using on the mixer, and that mostly to provide a sort of faux-stereo effect for the 8-track songs. Other effects are baked in during tracking.

(Also, the Phonic MRS1/20 is a surround mixing board.. is that important?)

Not really. Depending on the routing or with some mods it might have been handy to abuse for monitoring, but no. The only real attraction of that one to me is the metering.

If when you say "upgrade" you are referring to more than just the channel count, frankly none of the mixers you list (with the possible exception of the Soundcraft) will be even as good as the Yamaha. Soundtracs have a reputation for being noisy, the Phonic build quality tends to be very poor and Peavey, well, is Peavey.

Noted. Behringer is the only firm that I really have a handle on in terms of reputation. I did have a low-end Phonics once, and no, I wasn't overly impressed with the quality of it. Then again, it didn't have a list price of £1400.

Frankly, I'd be looking for a good quality older Soundcraft or Allen & Heath rather than the ones you mention.

Noted.

 

[Blue Jinn]

This may sound silly, but have you thought of getting something like a line mixer (Fostex 2016, Tascam MM-200, teac M1) etc to just expand the number of inputs to the yamaha. I looked at the block diagram though and couln'd tell if there are buss inserts, so I'm not sure if that is feasible, unless you used one of the stereo returns. That might get you enough line ins. I am guessing that space is a limiting factor against something like e.g. a Tascam 2500 or some such? I think I saw a thread on the Teac M1 and upgrading the opamps so it's quieter.

I have the aux outs from a Teac 5 going to the buss ins on a M-520. I probably will never need 28 inputs but you never know.

 

[jpmorris]

This may sound silly, but have you thought of getting something like a line mixer (Fostex 2016, Tascam MM-200, teac M1) etc to just expand the number of inputs to the yamaha.

It sounded like a bit of a frig, but yeah, I had wondered about that.

I am guessing that space is a limiting factor against something like e.g. a Tascam 2500 or some such? I think I saw a thread on the Teac M1 and upgrading the opamps so it's quieter.

Yeah, the problem with the older TASCAM mixers is that there simply aren't any for sale in this country with more than about 4 channels. Though space is a concern as well. If push comes to shove there is more space I can squeeze out of the current setup.

As it happens I seem to have won the auction for the Soundtracs, for better or for worse. If it really does have a noise problem (SOS seemed to think they were pretty quiet, but hey, it's about 12 years old now) then I might have to sell it on and try chaining the Yamaha to an MG102 or something instead.