2 Quick writing questions

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RFrecordings

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1. Does anyone get the feeling that all their lyrics suck when they first write their songs or is it just me. I often find myself saying "damn that seems so forced, or that will never work, or just plain this sucks"... sometimes I can find a work around where i'm almost satisfied but it seems to be a constant rewrite for a lot of stuff.

2. Does anyone write some of their lyrics in short bursts? I often have an idea pop into my head for a really good lyric and i'll write it down. Sometimes it's just one line, sometimes it's multiple lines or a whole verse or two. I'm not sure if I should expand on it cause if I do I might force something that sucks and ruin the lyric.
 
Yes to both. Just work with it and you might end up with a good song. If not, no loss.
 
Yeah, that reflect my experiences pretty well.

The usual process goes as follows:
Come up with an idea for a song.
Mull it over for a while, and develop the first verse (and maybe the chorus).
Write that down.
Put it away for a few days.
Come back and try to write the rest.
Get annoyed that everything after the first verse is awful. :D
Repeat.
 
RFrecordings said:
1. Does anyone get the feeling that all their lyrics suck when they first write their songs or is it just me. I often find myself saying "damn that seems so forced, or that will never work, or just plain this sucks"... sometimes I can find a work around where i'm almost satisfied but it seems to be a constant rewrite for a lot of stuff.

2. Does anyone write some of their lyrics in short bursts? I often have an idea pop into my head for a really good lyric and i'll write it down. Sometimes it's just one line, sometimes it's multiple lines or a whole verse or two. I'm not sure if I should expand on it cause if I do I might force something that sucks and ruin the lyric.
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1. Yes, all the time, I have notebooks full of half page's full of CRAP...but sometimes ill be writing and remember a little part I wrote a while back..and ill pull out the old notebook and find it..and sometimes I find something I can use!

Also..if your lyrics sometimes seem kinda CORNY to you..It might be a good thing..If your like me..when I write something that is a little to personal..I find it corny..but thats the stuff that reaches people!!

2. YES...The problem I have with that is I sometimes find that I said eveything in that short burst..and theres no place left to go..thats another book filled with half page songs!!
 
VomitHatSteve said:
Yeah, that reflect my experiences pretty well.

The usual process goes as follows:
Come up with an idea for a song.
Mull it over for a while, and develop the first verse (and maybe the chorus).
Write that down.
Put it away for a few days.
Come back and try to write the rest.
Get annoyed that everything after the first verse is awful. :D
Repeat.
Click to expand...

+1..you nailed it!!!!
 
I'm working on a song now that has a great instrumental track and great backup vocals but no lyric. I don't always write like this but this time it kinda worked out that way. I've had a few ideas for lyric but I can't seem to focus on it right now (lately). Got a great melody too!.. Fortunatly I'm finishing 4 other songs at the same time so it's not like I'm totally blocked.
Point is...the writing process can take some strange paths, and there is no "right way" to do it except to just do it..
Someone way smarter than me once said..." the art of writing lies in the re-writing."


chazba
 
Any writer has to write a lot of crap to get to the good stuff. Sometimes, the hardest part is to learn to recognize what is crap - and the next hardest part is to learn to not be overly critical (lest you define everything as crap).

Re-writing is an important part of the craft of writing and is how you can find and keep the pearls and then write around them.

I often come up with a line or phrase - and some times I only come up with a couple of words - but if I believe in those words, I'll write them down and patiently and gradually build a song. I currently have 3 songs with a basic melody and chord structure - each with a basic lyrical hook. I'm simply waiting to find the rest of the songs.

I find my process is much like VomitHat - often the first verse or chorus can come easy - but the rest of the song somes much harder........and that is were the craft comes in.
 
mikeh said:
Any writer has to write a lot of crap to get to the good stuff. Sometimes, the hardest part is to learn to recognize what is crap - and the next hardest part is to learn to not be overly critical (lest you define everything as crap).

Re-writing is an important part of the craft of writing and is how you can find and keep the pearls and then write around them.

I often come up with a line or phrase - and some times I only come up with a couple of words - but if I believe in those words, I'll write them down and patiently and gradually build a song. I currently have 3 songs with a basic melody and chord structure - each with a basic lyrical hook. I'm simply waiting to find the rest of the songs.

I find my process is much like VomitHat - often the first verse or chorus can come easy - but the rest of the song somes much harder........and that is were the craft comes in.
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You are also so right..I will come up with a good verse and chorse in the shower...get out and write it down, and they are great...but when I try to finish it later, nothig seems to get with the first part.
I think the other guy also nailed it with..PATIENTS!!!
 
LI_Slim said:
Yes to both. Just work with it and you might end up with a good song. If not, no loss.
Click to expand...

I concur, whad I'd suggest is for you to show your lyrics/work to one or two of your closest friends/relatives (from whom you will surely get an unbias opinion) and evolve from there.

Sometimes a bad opinion encourages you to pursue the work (whether its lyrics or music) and sometimes you just go like "Ok, if grandma thought it was good, it MUST be bad" haha.

Good luck! :D
 
And if you can't get any patients have some patience as if you build it they will come.
I jot scraps down & raid them later. I occasionally merge a couple of old chunks together.
A couple of the lyrics I'm happiest had 30 years between the 1st "finish" and the eventual rewriting that brought something workable from them.
 
I feel the same way as just about everyone in here. I was just looking back at some of my lyrics last night and it is full of half pages full of what I think is crap, with a few really good lines here and there. Recently I have found that my lyrics sound the most forces when I am actually trying to write lyrics. So what I have had the most success with recently is just writing alone with no guitar but maybe a very small musical idea in mind. I just put down general thoughts about whatever I happen to be writing about and when Im done with that I go back with more of an organized song in mind and I rearrange the words to fit the song. In my opinion, this makes it alot easier to express everything I originally intended to as well as avoid throwing something irrelevant in there just because it sounded right at the time. I'm not sure if I explained that quite right, but thats what I do and it has helped me alot
 
ut4ever8 said:
I feel the same way as just about everyone in here. I was just looking back at some of my lyrics last night and it is full of half pages full of what I think is crap, with a few really good lines here and there. Recently I have found that my lyrics sound the most forces when I am actually trying to write lyrics. So what I have had the most success with recently is just writing alone with no guitar but maybe a very small musical idea in mind. I just put down general thoughts about whatever I happen to be writing about and when Im done with that I go back with more of an organized song in mind and I rearrange the words to fit the song. In my opinion, this makes it alot easier to express everything I originally intended to as well as avoid throwing something irrelevant in there just because it sounded right at the time. I'm not sure if I explained that quite right, but thats what I do and it has helped me alot
Click to expand...

"just because it sounded right at the time."......Thats another one of my problems...today it sounds so good...tomarrow sounds almost embaressing!!
 
if you wonder what people will think of your lyrics... then don't. I got over it (mostly) and write freely. Try not to be someone who is constantly scratching out/erasing saying "this is so stupid/cheesy" you've got to let it flow. I really like english, so i guess it's something that comes a bit easier to me than some... in english class we used to do this thing called "free writes" where you write whatever you think... kind of . the proper definition is supposed to be: "a conscious flow of though out of your pen onto paper" or something of the sort. I kinda modified it into free singing, where I play the guitar part and just try making stuff up. When i come across something cool I work with it and add onto it, and thus derive my own meaning out of the song. I guess I don't really start with an idea in mind ( well sometimes i do) but i just go with it. It's pretty weird I know. But anyways, thats my random addition, maybe it'll come in handy (haha probably not) but regardless, keep working on lyrics ! try and let it flow naturally and you'll do great.
 
I know how you feel. My hooks are usually good & catchy, but I have a hard time filling out the song when I initially write it. So I'll leave it alone and come back to it later. However, when I go back to it everything falls in place and I end up loving it. I think usually when I write something new, I write song concepts.... not a full song. After a day or so it develops into a full song...
 
Definitely agree with the in bursts part. Today I could only come up with three lines for the first verse. I'm starting to focus on getting a good melody first. I used to do things simultaneously, but now I figure the melody's going to be the most memorable part. I also find it easier to come up with more rhythmically suitable words when I have a set melody.

Two of my biggest problems are not letting the words flow (trying to fit a cool sounding phrase that doesn't belong) and worrying how I forgot a song phrase and didn't write it down. Maybe I've amassed so many Notepad files and scribbled words that I never return to that I'm filtering out the good from the ugly at the get-go. The problem with me is that I'm impatient with it if it doesn't sound genius the moment it's written. Usually lyrics aren't brilliant until you place them in the right context, in between other lyrics and with atmospheric music.
 
yes, of course. One very liberating realization for me, was when I realized that ALL OF US feel like shit about what we create. In reality, artists are very critical of their own work... You'd be very hard pressed to find very many people who create THINGS who feel that they did an outstanding job. Just create regardless of what YOU think of your art and it'll happen eventually...

In other words...be a vessel...create... your mind is your worst enemy... just...create.
 
No one is ever happy with their own work.
What it boils down too, is saying "f@#% everyone else and what they will think of my lyrics and my music". Which is the hardest part.


Mike
 
writing lyrics

All of the above advice is more co-misery than actual help if the end result you desire is a method that will provide you with art that you feel reflects your personality at its most brilliant. There is a better way.

But first allow me to be of emotional assistance. OP you are only 18. Which has 1 main advantage and 1 main disadvantage. The con is that you likely have very little experience. Which accounts for your lack of confidence in your tunes. But dont feel bad cause you have time on your side. There are MANY illusions in the creative process that you can see through as you progress. Your goal should be to gain as much XP as you can while you can, so that you dont waste the opportunity that comes naturally with the brevity of youth.

NOW, heres how to write great lyrics every time, easily. MAKE A SEED LIST.

Seed list is a list of words that have high emotional impact, that you personally like the sound of. The word PHANTOM for example. Its a great high emotionally impacting word that also sounds cool when spoken. So go through ALL your favorite albums and books and movies and write down in categories of nouns, verbs, adjectives, etc EVERY ONE YOUD LOVE TO USE. That is the part of the process that makes it YOUR personality. You will need hundreds of each category. ONLY CHOOSE THE HIGHEST EPA WORDS. That way youll be using only or mostly words that due to connotive value in society will leap off the page. Then start narrowing the lists down over time. Circle the words and phrases you MUST use that you personally LOVE.

Then start rhyming them in couplets based on standard rhyme schemes and study up on the emotional impact of the different types of rhyme (true, near, mosaic, wrenched, etc)

In time you will do this procedurally, no longer sitting waiting for an idea to happen to you, you will make it happen.

This sht works man, youre welcome
 
Good Friend said:
All of the above advice is more co-misery than actual help if the end result you desire is a method that will provide you with art that you feel reflects your personality at its most brilliant. There is a better way.

But first allow me to be of emotional assistance. OP you are only 18. Which has 1 main advantage and 1 main disadvantage. The con is that you likely have very little experience. Which accounts for your lack of confidence in your tunes. But dont feel bad cause you have time on your side. There are MANY illusions in the creative process that you can see through as you progress. Your goal should be to gain as much XP as you can while you can, so that you dont waste the opportunity that comes naturally with the brevity of youth.

NOW, heres how to write great lyrics every time, easily. MAKE A SEED LIST.

Seed list is a list of words that have high emotional impact, that you personally like the sound of. The word PHANTOM for example. Its a great high emotionally impacting word that also sounds cool when spoken. So go through ALL your favorite albums and books and movies and write down in categories of nouns, verbs, adjectives, etc EVERY ONE YOUD LOVE TO USE. That is the part of the process that makes it YOUR personality. You will need hundreds of each category. ONLY CHOOSE THE HIGHEST EPA WORDS. That way youll be using only or mostly words that due to connotive value in society will leap off the page. Then start narrowing the lists down over time. Circle the words and phrases you MUST use that you personally LOVE.

Then start rhyming them in couplets based on standard rhyme schemes and study up on the emotional impact of the different types of rhyme (true, near, mosaic, wrenched, etc)

In time you will do this procedurally, no longer sitting waiting for an idea to happen to you, you will make it happen.

This sht works man, youre welcome
Click to expand...

lol ... welcome back, "good friend."
 
Great Friend

Im not here to argue. Besides, my advice is always rooted in genuine concern over pursuit of artistic excellence, or humor. Those are good things.
 
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