-10/+4 plz explain the difference

  • Thread starter Thread starter Henrik
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Henrik

Henrik

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Will someone please explain the difference between the levels -10 and +4 used in different types of audio gear?!

Why is +4 considered better? Are there any situations where you would prefer -10?

Thanks
/Henrik
 
psst, er... Ed.... the difference is about 12db (actually 11.79)...


+4 dBu = 20 * log (voltage / .775 V)
voltage = 1.228 Volts

-10 dBV = 20 * log (voltage / 1V)
voltage = 0.3162 Volts

20 * log (1.228V / 0.3162V) = 11.79 dB


;)


But I'm just being picky... after all, you did say "about 14db!" :D :D

Bruce
 
Last edited:
Blue Bear Sound said:
psst, er... Ed.... the difference is about 12db (actually 11.79)...


+4 dBu = 20 * log (voltage / .775 V)
voltage = 1.228 Volts

-10 dBV = 20 * log (voltage / 1V)
voltage = 0.3162 Volts

20 * log (1.228V / 0.3162V) = 11.79 dB


;)


But I'm just being picky... after all, you did say "about 14db!" :D :D

Bruce
Click to expand...
]

smartass! ;)

Ed
 
Originally posted by Pot (to Kettle) Black
Click to expand...

Just make sure all your stuff matches.
+4 is generally labeled "Pro" level and -10 is generally labeled "Consumer".

This is mainly done to sell more converters. :D

Queue
 
Henrik said:
Thanks Skippy!
The rest of you - jeeeez!
Click to expand...

Hey! I gave a mostly right answer! So did Bruce!

Some of us are NOT as wordy as skippy! :) (I have been know to rant, but skippy can write books!)

Ed
 
Sonusman,
That's not the point.

I asked for an explanation of the different levels used and why +4 seems to be the preferred level over -10. And neither you nor Bruce answered that. I know algebra, and if I should ever have a question on that, I really don't think this would be the right forum to post it.
 
You asked for the difference... and we gave it to you....

(ok... tongue in cheek maybe... but hey... we put smilies!!!!!!!!!)

:D
 
I asked for the difference in use, which should be petty clear. But whatever. Get your tongue out of your cheek and give me a useful answer to this:

The different levels seem to be closely connected to balanced and unbalanced signals. You rarely see +4 levels on unbalanced outputs, and vice versa. Is this just how things happen to be, or are these standards more closely related, technically?
 
They are not related to balanced/unbalanced lines in any way - they are simply different gain structures.

It just so happens that most pro gear runs at the +4 gain structure, AND is also wired balanced for noise immunity.

Coincidence by design, but the 2 issues are NOT related.

Bruce
 
OK, thanks! That's what I thought. Now you can put your tongue back whereever you want it.

(that came out somewhat differently than I intended, but I think I'll just leave it)
 
Now you can put your tongue back whereever you want it.
Click to expand...

Henrik,

Intended or not, very funny. :D

You're getting the hang of things around here...

Lots of good info from lots of good people. Lots of good-natured humor interspersed.

Queue
 
"Now you can put your tongue back whereever you want it.

(that came out somewhat differently than I intended"

Never mind. So did his tongue.
 
You didn't ask for the difference in algebra dude! Lighten up.....

You also didn't ask to have the difference qualified in terms of quality.

Ed
 
No, I didn't ask for the difference in algebra, but you replied as if I did (and btw obviously you didn't have much of a clue either).

What I DID ask for was the difference in quality. Let me save you the trouble of scrolling up to the first post:

"Why is +4 considered better? Are there any situations where you would prefer -10? "

But maybe that wasn't clear enough.


OK, NEVER MIND.
I got a bit upset, because the very idea with the Newbie discussion is to not hesitate to ask "stupid" questions. So I asked a stupid question and I expected to get an informative answer. I have that now, and I'm happy with it. So let's leave it at that.
 
I *did* give you an informative answer... now you know the required math to calculate the difference between 2 gain structures!

Bruce
 
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