RWRP middle pickup question

[ashcat_lt]

i guess I'm not really sure how RWRP impact tone?

It can’t. If you really prefer having more noise than necessary, I guess go ahead on. The actual sound from the strings will be as close to the same as the pickups are.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

It can’t. If you really prefer having more noise than necessary, I guess go ahead on. The actual sound from the strings will be as close to the same as the pickups are.

Yeah, barring possibly position 2 and 4, I can't see a difference either -basically all you did, more or less, was flip the orientation of a pickup that's by design symmetrical. But I certainly would hear out arguments I'm wrong, always happy to explore ideas for science...

 

[ashcat_lt]

Yeah, barring possibly position 2 and 4…

The ONLY difference will be noise and yes that will be in 2 and 4. The string sound in ALL positions will not change.

 

[jimistone]

You mean in position 2 and 4, where you have those sort of in-between "quack" sounds? I love those sounds, and as a guy with a Hendrix-themed username I'm really surprised you don't too.

That's why I don't like the reverse would. Positions 2 and 4 don't sound as good with the RWMP. That's my opinion and has been my experience. I've logged a lot of hours with reverse wound middle and traditional wound middle both. I hear a difference in positions 2 and 4.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

That's why I don't like the reverse would. Positions 2 and 4 don't sound as good with the RWMP. That's my opinion and has been my experience. I've logged a lot of hours with reverse wound middle and traditional wound middle both. I hear a difference in positions 2 and 4.

I'd love to hear some clips - I honestly don't know if I've ever played a NON-RWRP middle, so I'm legitimately curious what the differences are like.

For me, the in-between positions I'm currently getting with a RWRP middle are awesome enough that I'm really happy with the results I'm getting, but I'm always happy to hear something different.

 

[jimistone]

I'd love to hear some clips - I honestly don't know if I've ever played a NON-RWRP middle, so I'm legitimately curious what the differences are like.

For me, the in-between positions I'm currently getting with a RWRP middle are awesome enough that I'm really happy with the results I'm getting, but I'm always happy to hear something different.

I don't have reverse wound loaded in a strat anymore

 

[DrewPeterson7]

An A/B comparison with a RWRP and a non-RWRP would be hard anyway, short of taking a single guitar and dropping in a RWRP middle wound otherwise to the same specs - 'd be curious to just hear position 2 and 4 from one of your existing guitars to see if there's anything audibly unusual about it.

 

[RFR]

An A/B comparison with a RWRP and a non-RWRP would be hard anyway, short of taking a single guitar and dropping in a RWRP middle wound otherwise to the same specs - 'd be curious to just hear position 2 and 4 from one of your existing guitars to see if there's anything audibly unusual about it.

Positions 2 and 4 would sound different just because the lack of single coil hum. Then when you switch to the other positions the SC hum returns. That’s kind of weird. But you get used to it.

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Positions 2 and 4 would sound different just because the lack of single coil hum. Then when you switch to the other positions the SC hum returns. That’s kind of weird. But you get used to it.

Hey, my expectations would be this, and the only differences would be attributable to the pickup winding itself, and no polarity and wind direction. But jimistone is adament it sounds different so I'm at least willing to hear him out.

 

[ashcat_lt]

Some pickups you could physically flip the magnet and then switch the wires. If you can remove and replace the pickgaurd and strings back to exactly how it was set up…

…you’d probably still insist that you hear a difference because that’s how guitarist brains work.

 

[RFR]

Some pickups you could physically flip the magnet and then switch the wires. If you can remove and replace the pickgaurd and strings back to exactly how it was set up…

…you’d probably still insist that you hear a difference because that’s how guitarist brains work.

Guitarists brains are indeed very…….eh, finish the sentence as you wish.

 

[jimistone]

It sounds different to my ears. That's all.
To others there may be no difference at all

 

[DrewPeterson7]

It sounds different to my ears. That's all.
To others there may be no difference at all

That sounds a lot like a placebo effect difference, then, and not at all like the sort of thing that would have someone saying with such authority and confidence that RWRP was worse-sounding and that tone suffers if you use one.

 

[jimistone]

That sounds a lot like a placebo effect difference, then, and not at all like the sort of thing that would have someone saying with such authority and confidence that RWRP was worse-sounding and that tone suffers if you use one.

I can say with absolute authority that it sounds different to me. On top of the #2 and #4 positions sounding different, when playing with high gain and holding a sustained note, switching the pickup selector back and forth from neck to bridge pickup sounds like shit.
Here is an example of what I'm talking about...
In this recording that I made a while back, not too far after the intro, before the vocal starts, I hold a distorted note and joggle the selector switch.
You can't get that same effect with a RWMP.
Just doesn't sound the same. When thw switch passes the RWMP there is an audible pop...click...skip...whatever you want to call it. The first time I ever played "Voodoo Child (slight return)" with a RWMP, I knew I hated the SOB and it had to come out.
Listen to voodoo child by jimistone on #SoundCloud

 

[DrewPeterson7]

Are you sure that's not just the switch? I get the same effect but with the faintest audible click with my Strat... but I'm also getting it from a guitar with a pair of humbuckers with nothing wired RWRP, which makes me think it's not the middle pickup.

 

[PorterhouseMusic]

Drop this here, fwiw. Excellent book that I bought recently:

Complete Guitar Wiring: Everything you need to understand, modify, and troubleshoot your guitar's wiring: Hayes, Gerry: 9781919649429: Amazon.com: Books

Complete Guitar Wiring: Everything you need to understand, modify, and troubleshoot your guitar's wiring [Hayes, Gerry] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. Complete Guitar Wiring: Everything you need to understand, modify, and troubleshoot your guitar's wiring

a.co

 

[Sky Blue Lou]

I picked this up using ChatGPT/Open AI> I asked the question:
what happens when you wire a RWRP pickup in the middle position with a humbucker in the bridge position

ChatGPT said:​

When you wire a RWRP single coil in the middle position with a humbucker in the bridge position, a few different things happen, depending on how they are wired together and used. Let’s break it down:

---

Wiring & Sound Scenarios​

1.​

• Middle (RWRP Single Coil):
  • Functions as a regular single coil.
  • Will still pick up 60-cycle hum like any normal single coil.
• Bridge (Humbucker):
  • Functions normally.
  • Cancels hum internally due to its two coils wired in opposite phase and polarity.

No interaction between the pickups in this case — each works on its own.

---

2.​

This is where it gets more interesting — it depends how they are wired:

If Wired in Phase and Correct Polarity:​

• The RWRP pickup and one coil of the humbucker may act together to cancel hum, partially.
• You can get some hum-canceling effect, but not guaranteed, because:
  • A humbucker has two coils, and you’re blending it with a single coil.
  • Unless you split the humbucker (coil-split it to one coil only), the interaction is more complex and may not be fully hum-canceling.

If Out of Phase:​

• The middle + bridge sound will be thin and hollow due to phase cancellation.
• This can be corrected by reversing the hot and ground of one pickup.

---

Key Technical Notes​

RWRP Does NOT Mean "Humbucking with a Humbucker":​

• RWRP is designed to cancel hum with another single coil, not with a humbucker.
• For true hum cancellation when combining pickups, both pickups must:
  • Have opposite magnetic polarity
  • Be wired electrically out of phase
  • Be of similar coil configuration

In this case, because a single coil and humbucker are different beasts, hum canceling is not guaranteed — especially if the humbucker is not split.

---

Recommended Options:​

If you want hum canceling in the middle+bridge position:​

• Coil-split the humbucker and combine it with the RWRP middle pickup.
  • This gives you two single coils with opposite wind/polarity → potential for hum canceling.
• Be sure to test and match phase and polarity carefully.

Fuck AI.

sorry

 

[Sky Blue Lou]

I need to think about how this could fit in as a minor plot point (it's a tossed off line, really, the old motto for the school that the protagonist, a 17 year old tennis phenom, that his father founded).

But, the best I've got on having only learned about the mistranslation this morning and then not giving it much thought since is this - Hal's father was, in addition to a laundry list of other notable accomplishments very relavent to the plot but not really here, was an increasingly no-longer-functioning alcoholic, and after the probable completion of one of his last film products, committed suicide in the family's kitchen by, with the aid of some creativity with a hacksaw, sticking his head in a microwave, packing it with aluyminum foil, and turning it on high. Then 12-year-old Hal was the one who found him. His family sent him to a grief therapist after that, and Hal, a brilliant, brilliant student and innate people pleaser, found himself unable to figure out what this therapist needed to hear from him in order to determine he was processing appropriately, and the whole process started to push him towards a breakdown. Very long story short, Hal eventually decided to come at this from the standpoint of a practitioner and not a patient, and staged this elaborate breakdown where one day he lost his cool at the therapist, satarts yelling at him about how he never wanted any of this, never wanted be the one to find him, and that, yelling now at the top of his lungs, it was absolutely not his fault that... and stops and then in a small voice finishes, "that I was hungry," and finally confesses the first thing he thought when he walked into the house that night was that something smells delicious. He was pretty much absolved of any need for further therapy on the spot.

But, the mistranslation of the motto DOES fit in rather nicely, in that context.

Fuckin Cliff Notes? Outstanding! Thank you.

I had wondered about the quote but never read the author. Wondering if I should.

 

[Sky Blue Lou]

I can say with absolute authority that it sounds different to me. On top of the #2 and #4 positions sounding different, when playing with high gain and holding a sustained note, switching the pickup selector back and forth from neck to bridge pickup sounds like shit.
Here is an example of what I'm talking about...
In this recording that I made a while back, not too far after the intro, before the vocal starts, I hold a distorted note and joggle the selector switch.
You can't get that same effect with a RWMP.
Just doesn't sound the same. When thw switch passes the RWMP there is an audible pop...click...skip...whatever you want to call it. The first time I ever played "Voodoo Child (slight return)" with a RWMP, I knew I hated the SOB and it had to come out.
Listen to voodoo child by jimistone on #SoundCloud

BruthaStone

 

[Sky Blue Lou]

Apologies for the interruption(s). Just catching up.