The New Tone Thread

[ShanPeyton]

I have been primarily playing through an Orange OR100 for a couple of years now -- sounds great - has several very good sounds, actually. I think the OR15 has a similar circuit. Before that I spent a few days with a Tiny Terror - didn't like it much, and then about a year with a TH100 - that was nice, but probably better for modern metal than for what I wanted.

The OR100 seems like a no brainer. If i had disposeable income i would get one of those and the Rockerverb50. Oh and uh i mean, *coughs* a Marhsall too of some flavoring.

 

[Lt. Bob]

Maybe if somebody has spent the time to create it in a preset but if you're just going to clone an amp yourself the Kemper doesn't have a way of knowing the panel controls. At least from what I've seen.

ah ...... you're right about that.
I was thinking modelers in general ..... something like Line 6 or fractal where the factory does the modeling they're supposed to do all that but when you're doing it yourself you're only gonna get whatever the controls were set at when you model it.

Also from I've read about the Kemper you have to get models with the different gain structures you'd want to set the amp at.
So if you want a sound with the gain cranked and master down that'd be one model and if you want one with the gain turned way down for clean you'd have to get a model of that and then store them in 2 different presets.

 

[ShanPeyton]

ah ...... you're right about that.
I was thinking modelers in general ..... something like Line 6 or fractal where the factory does the modeling they're supposed to do all that but when you're doing it yourself you're only gonna get whatever the controls were set at when you model it.

I might throw a high five in the direction of Line 6 in this department. I find on my PodX3 some of the amp head model/sims viritual knobs respond a little differently then some of the other models "knobs" It might just be me and my ears and what they think they hear but i swear that this is the case. Like the knobs aren't just generic Bass, mid and treb knobs. I notice with the Plexi, Hiwatt, Vox and Mesa sims i have those little knobs don't always color a tone equally amongst them. I notice it the most with the Plexi and the Hiwatt most of all. And the Soldano Sim i have the tone really changes with the "master volume" It's kind of messed up.

Does that make sense to anyone?

Like, i really think Line6 had the best intentions to make each sim it's own unique little thing to play with when they made those PODs they just still stink of that digital color. I dunno.

 

[Greg_L]

Some of that kind of stuff is accurate to the real amps they're mimicking. Many amps change a lot when you turn them up - particularly older amp designs. Many Fender amps are known for robust cleans, but turn one way up and they get gnarly. Steve Jones and Johnny Thunders raunchy crunch sound is the sound of cranked up Fender amps. Plexis and JCM 800s change a lot the more you crank them. The tone knobs on Plexis interact and goose the amp differently than the same knobs on other amps. To their credit, I think a few of the sim makers took some care to recreate the nuances of some of these amps.

 

[JDOD]

With sims, it still seams that modelling convincing distortion is the trickiest thing to do. I remember the first time I heard sim distortion on Cool Edit Pro 2 in the early 2000s. I couldn't believe how bad it was!

Sim distortion still sounds like a load of buzzy noise quite a lot of the time. Suppose you get what you pay for.

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

ah ...... you're right about that.
I was thinking modelers in general ..... something like Line 6 or fractal where the factory does the modeling they're supposed to do all that but when you're doing it yourself you're only gonna get whatever the controls were set at when you model it.

Also from I've read about the Kemper you have to get models with the different gain structures you'd want to set the amp at.
So if you want a sound with the gain cranked and master down that'd be one model and if you want one with the gain turned way down for clean you'd have to get a model of that and then store them in 2 different presets.

It actually rolls off and adds gain to a cloned sound rather well. It's most definitely not true to the origin of the source but it works very well by itself. You're definitely not stuck with one gain level and nothing else that's useable.
Fractal went pretty far with what you can manipulate. You can change transistor and resistor values for certain parts of the simulated amplifiers.

When I was using the Rectifier yesterday I was also comparing it to what the Axe-Fx has got. It's got a "Green", "Orange" and "Red" preset, so one for each channel of the dual or triple rec but nowhere to switch between the "Raw", "Vintage" and "Modern" voicings on the real amp. Plus the real Mesa has an "Output" and a "Master" knob where I don't really know what the difference is.
It's a lot of little things like that are hard to recreate.

Sim distortion still sounds like a load of buzzy noise quite a lot of the time. Suppose you get what you pay for.

This is very true as well. You kind of have the mid range sims like the Pod and the Eleven Rack and then there is a 1000$ price gap and the Kemper and Axe-Fx appear. Guitar Rig and Amplitube are probably the most bang for your buck that you're ever going to get with digital. Diminishing returns and lots of 'em...

 

[JDOD]

Guitar Rig and Amplitube are probably the most bang for your buck that you're ever going to get with digital. Diminishing returns and lots of 'em...

I just tried Amplitube on the iPad; installed the free bit just to test it, this is their lead sound. It sounded like a bag of dicks. I won't be spending any cash on a fuller version unless they let me have a go of it first. I can't understand why they'd give you something so crap when they're trying to get you to buy stuff.

I also got GarageBand which isn't great, but it has a far more options available from the basic package and is free.

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

The free versions of some of sim programs are really trash. "Eleven Free" is the worst sounding sim I've ever used but the Eleven Rack with the exact same presets sounds completely different. It's like they want you to hate it.

 

[antichef]

Cool, I think they sound awesome. I've been recording scratch tracks for a song recently and in my head it has an Orange OD sound - I've recorded it on Guitar Rig, which does sound like an Orange, but obviously a sim version.

It's three weeks to Glastonbury today, which means it's three weeks and two days until Motorhead. I only know Ace of Spades (as far as I know), but it's going to be badass.

I can hook you up with a reamp through my OR100

 

[JDOD]

I saw Motorhead a long time ago, and it was painfully loud. But it was awesome as shit. I'm seeing them in a few months myself, but their current setlist leaves me scratching my head sometimes. Of course Ace of Spades is in there, but a lot of what's commonly thought of as their best stuff is missing. I guess Lemmy is tired of his greatest hits. There's a line in Ace of Spades that goes "That's the way I like it baby, I don't wanna live forever!" But now he's adding "But apparently I am" at the end of that line. Lol. And he says it in a way that seems like he's totally over all of this. It's kind of depressing to me actually. Like he's done all he can do to die a rock and roll death, but he's such a fucking badass that he just keeps hanging on, and he's not happy about it. Lemmy can't even kill Lemmy!

I saw Motorhead in Hyde Park about 8 years ago. They were excellent. I expected them to be shit but they sounded great. Most impressively, they didn't sound bored - they sounded like they were really up for it.

 

[ShanPeyton]

lol @ Cool Edit Pro 2.0 Amp sims. I am way to familiar with those 'tones' haha.


@Antichef do you really do that sort of thing? Hook up a guy up with a reamp? Why isn't this a more common practice? Maybe it is a common practice? How ingenious. That would be a great way for an individual to make a few extra bucks. Sell your amps tone to newbs to 25 bucks a pop.

 

[Schwarzenyaeger]

@Antichef do you really do that sort of thing? Hook up a guy up with a reamp? Why isn't this a more common practice? Maybe it is a common practice? How ingenious. That would be a great way for an individual to make a few extra bucks. Sell your amps tone to newbs to 25 bucks a pop.

People already do it with the Kemper

 

[antichef]

I mean for free - jeez - this thread is about research after all. I do see reamp services offered on the internet. I can't imagine anyone's buying but maybe they are.

 

[minerman]

@Antichef do you really do that sort of thing? Hook up a guy up with a reamp? Why isn't this a more common practice? Maybe it is a common practice? How ingenious. That would be a great way for an individual to make a few extra bucks. Sell your amps tone to newbs to 25 bucks a pop.

That is pretty common practice Shan, in other forums, there a lots of guys charging $$$ for re-amping...Been goin' on for years...

 

[ShanPeyton]

People already do it with the Kemper

No. A real amp. Not a modeler. Reamp via a real amp. That's what i meant. I wouldn't really consider the using a Kemper and having someone reamp my raw signal track through their ballin amp to be remotely the same. At all.

I mean for free - jeez - this thread is about research after all. I do see reamp services offered on the internet. I can't imagine anyone's buying but maybe they are.

I know, i don't think my sarcastic tone translated well through the Internets. They might pay maybe? I think if i ever got desperate enough i'd consider shelling out for a certain sound. Hard to say ? People do the damndest things.

That is pretty common practice Shan, in other forums, there a lots of guys charging $$$ for re-amping...Been goin' on for years...

Dang. And here I was thinking I was onto something. Back the drawing board i guess. HaHa

 

[antichef]

I see - yes, sarcasm is tough to get through the packets. Reamping seems cool - and I have a reamping box that works pretty well. But it introduces more variables than just the amp - like the mic and placement and stuff. Also, with these big bottle amps, to me a lot of the fun is having the wood and wire (the guitar that is) in the same airspace as the speakers - feedback/sustain is a desirable part of the sound, imo, and you have to have the whole circuit for that. But still - happy to give it a go

 

[ShanPeyton]

I see - yes, sarcasm is tough to get through the packets. Reamping seems cool - and I have a reamping box that works pretty well. But it introduces more variables than just the amp - like the mic and placement and stuff. Also, with these big bottle amps, to me a lot of the fun is having the wood and wire (the guitar that is) in the same airspace as the speakers - feedback/sustain is a desirable part of the sound, imo, and you have to have the whole circuit for that. But still - happy to give it a go

Agreed. I enjoy feed back and the creative avenues it can open up. and currently in my own set up i can get it cause the cab and mic are two rooms away from e so that stinks. But i get where you are coming from. Maybe might be fun to try sometime. I just need to figure out how i can split the signal from my guitar. I am pretty limited for inputs. I got other stuff to worry about for now. lol. I have a very bad habit of putting about 60 carts in front of my one horse hollering 'giddy up'.

 

[Greg_L]

If you're paying to reamp through a Kemper, or any modeler, then you probably need to be killed. Seriously, what the fucking fuck.


Anyway, I've offered some reamping to people if they want it. If you want Marshall sound, I'm your guy. I only do Marshall though. I'll do a track or two for anyone. If you want more, you gotta pay up.

 

[Greg_L]

I see - yes, sarcasm is tough to get through the packets. Reamping seems cool - and I have a reamping box that works pretty well. But it introduces more variables than just the amp - like the mic and placement and stuff. Also, with these big bottle amps, to me a lot of the fun is having the wood and wire (the guitar that is) in the same airspace as the speakers - feedback/sustain is a desirable part of the sound, imo, and you have to have the whole circuit for that. But still - happy to give it a go

Absolutely. There is nothing better than a note or chord sustaining into glorious all natural blooming feedback.

 

[ShanPeyton]

Absolutely. There is nothing better than a note or chord sustaining into glorious all natural blooming feedback.

There was a punkish band from England in the 90's called Broccoli and they had this one song that was just a gnarly almost symphonic arrangement of feedbacks. I'll have to dig through my hard drives and see if i still have it. It was pretty impressive. It impressed me anyways.