Repercussions of a failed music industry

I think there's some modest money to be made in a pay-for-play scenario if you have the skills. I turn down a lot of drum-for-hire offers simply because I don't know the people or I'm not interested in the material. But usually if I know them I'll cut em a deal or just do a one-off for free. I'm about to do a whole album for a guy in here. I've "worked" with him before and I like the guy and his music, so no problem. He can't get real drums as cheap as I'll do them for him, and it'll make me a little extra money for something I don't mind doing anyway. Win/win. But I don't think I'd want to make a job out of it.
 
That's just it, the studio was my job. Back in the 90's when I opened it, doing spec deals was pretty common and usually worked out, at least enough to make them worth doing. I kept that mentality long after the promise of money at the end of the projects went away. Even if I get 10 points on the album, not enough people will buy it to get my money back.

I was constantly in a situation where I had to do anything anyone would pay me for, just to keep the money rolling in.

Right now, I'm working for an AV company in Vegas. They keep me busy 50-60 hours a week. I have to charge enough to make it worth spending what little time I have to myself on a project. I don't need the mixing work to pay my bills, so I can be pickier about what I take on. I'm a lot happier this way.
 
The way I see it is, if you were a gardener, there's no way you would do somebody's garden for nothing, just because they say the Royal Horticultural Society might pop round to have a look at it next week. I wouldn't believe that, neither would I take a cut rate of pay with the promise of reward in the future. This business seems to be filled with self-deluded chancers more than any other. I'd do it for a mate, the rest can go auto-eroticise themselves. :D
 
Bubba po said:
The way I see it is, if you were a gardener, there's no way you would do somebody's garden for nothing, just because they say the Royal Horticultural Society might pop round to have a look at it next week. I wouldn't believe that, neither would I take a cut rate of pay with the promise of reward in the future. This business seems to be filled with self-deluded chancers more than any other. I'd do it for a mate, the rest can go auto-eroticise themselves. :D
Click to expand...
This is true, but back in the day, that's how it worked. Instead of just getting a fee, you would take a reduced fee and points. Spec deals were also the way a lot of acts were discovered. A producer would find an act, produce them, then get them a record deal. As part of the record deal, that producer would get points on a certain amount of their future work. (or points and payment for what he produced, if that is what got released)

The fact that there is no money to be made selling CD's is what makes those business models not work.
 
Greg_L said:
I think there's some modest money to be made in a pay-for-play scenario if you have the skills.
Click to expand...
there is ......a good hired gun/single act can do 2-4k a month but he has to work his ass off to do it.
Two summers ago from June 1st thru Sept.15th I had 8 gigs a week ....... with tips I was bringing in a little over 5k a month ........ but then the following two months I had like, a gig a week ... :D ..... you have to stay on the chase constantly to keep the schedule filled.
 
Armistice said:
People don't appreciate what they don't pay for...
Click to expand...

You know...that sounds cliché...but it IS so true! :D

If you try to be too fair and ask less than the typical norm for whatever you are selling...most people will think something is wrong with it, like they are not getting a good product because it seems too "cheap".

I know a lot of stupid people will gladly overpay for something, because they feel they are getting a better product with the higher price.
You are better off charging the going rates or even a touch over, that way you can always haggle down...than trying to be "nice" and practically giving it away.
 
Another thought came to mind, (I should keep track of these, they don't happen often), but Farview probably makes it look easy and therefore clients think he can easily whip something out. Oh yeah, my buddy Farview can put together a cd for me in no time. You should hear what he did with my crap demos. Plus, he's a friend, so he won't charge me much....

I said it before, people don't understand the value of service and they don't understand the value of experience.
 
Chili said:
Another thought came to mind, (I should keep track of these, they don't happen often), but Farview probably makes it look easy and therefore clients think he can easily whip something out. Oh yeah, my buddy Farview can put together a cd for me in no time. You should hear what he did with my crap demos. Plus, he's a friend, so he won't charge me much....

I said it before, people don't understand the value of service and they don't understand the value of experience.
Click to expand...
It's very easy to turn total crap into something better. That's what I did with his original demos. His mixes were terrible, mine were much better than that. However, he has confused 'better' with 'professional sounding', which they definitely are not.

No, it doesn't take very long to get a reasonable balance on a mix. But it does take a long time to actually make the song flow, make key points pop out and add impact when appropriate. It takes even longer when you are trying to do all that while trying to make wildly different tracks sound like they belong together.
 
dragonworks said:
musical quality is more important than sound quality
Click to expand...

When breaking in a set of new monitors. I listened to Mountain's "Nantucket Sleigh ride". Lousy mix by today's polished standards. Actually quite poor. Funny thing, all these years as a music fan, without my critical listening "engineer" hat on...........I never noticed. It was just a great piece of music!

The song trumps all. ALWAYS. Never forget that.
 
Greg_L said:
Many of the most famous albums ever sound like shit by today's "standards".
Click to expand...

And to expand on that, sometimes, some of todays standards sound like crap. I can look past the quality of the recording to a certain degree if the songs are deadly and the rock and roll is there. A few other factors too but i am sure you all catch my drift maybe?
 
Chili said:
Another thought came to mind, (I should keep track of these, they don't happen often), but Farview probably makes it look easy and therefore clients think he can easily whip something out. Oh yeah, my buddy Farview can put together a cd for me in no time. You should hear what he did with my crap demos. Plus, he's a friend, so he won't charge me much....

I said it before, people don't understand the value of service and they don't understand the value of experience.
Click to expand...

There is likely something to that. I can understand wanting to get the hot guy the rock. Farview could well be a victim of his own success, but he may need to start learning to say "no" to people who aren't used to hearing "no".

I find it helps to say "no, but.." and include some path to get the requester where they want to be.
 
Farview said:
Right about that time, he got his recording budget... $400. He asked me to remix the entire album, plus a new song, for that $400. I would have had to start from scratch (hard drive failure took the original sessions) and actually try to make all the songs sound like they belong together, for about the price I would normally charge to mix a couple songs like this.
Click to expand...

$400 for a recording budget? What kind of clown act is that?
 
Farview said:
Thr bottom line is, there is no way for me to get it done on time. I'm also not convinced that there is any way to turn this into something that I would want anyone to hear.

The reason I can walk away from work paying about 1/3 of what I would have to charge for the work that needs to be put into this, is because I closed my studio down last year and have a day job.

when I had the studio, I would have done the work because some money is better than none. But all that attitude got me was a closed business.

Now, I do projects that I want to do, for a price that makes it worth my while. ( working around my job schedule.
Click to expand...

Where you working from now?
 
dobro said:
Where you working from now?
Click to expand...

I set up a room in my house in Vegas with everything I need to mix. I still have the Genelecs, but I sold the Urei 813's to a guy in Poland.

I've sold most of my mics and preamps and all the other stuff that is used solely for recording. All I have left is my Langevin dual vocal combo, AT4033, a few 57's, and boxes of mic cables and misfit snakes.
 
I've read this whole thread, & I have to say, I probably (not probably, most definitely) would choose to pass on that too Jay...While my experience is really limited compared to yours, I did mix a 5 song EP for a band a few years ago that turned out ok for a newbie like me, all online, never met the band (probably never will, they live in Colorado, I'm in Virginia)...They asked me to mix a second EP, but I passed because the price they offered was much lower than the first, the recorded material wasn't nearly as good, plus, I just didn't have the time working 6 days a week...

Off topic, I wonder how many people our age have been influenced by seeing KISS on the Halloween special in '76??? I've been checking out your sites, & thought it was pretty cool that the same tv show in 1976 was such a big influence on both of us...:D.

Again, I think you did the right thing man, especially since you weren't going to re-track anything....gotta do what you gotta do....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top