The New Tone Thread

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Greg: Wow man, that's cool the strat was still in tune...how long had it sat there??? FWIW, I do like strat tones, some of the old Hendrix stuff I like (Little Wing, Wind Cries Mary), & of course SRV, but they're kinda close to the same thing in ways...I mainly want the strat tone for contrast to the thick LP sound I've already got...The Ibanez will do a pretty close approximation of that sound too, just a little different...


Ray: I agree with Tadpui, the lead tone does sound kinda like it's straight into a console, kinda like AC-DC's sounds on "Let There Be Rock", kinda...Nothing wrong with it, myself, I'd go for a little less fizz/fuzz, but it works in the mix pretty good dude....

Tadpui: I actually like that clip man, & it's nice to hear some tones in a mix context just to hear how they sit with the other instruments...Myself I don't think the rhythm tone is too dark, it's actually about right (to me) in the mix....Maybe just a hair brighter, but not much....Good job man...And yes, that's the whole reason of having the strat/lp/ibby, contrast dude, I want my tones to sound good, but have a variety too...

I'm still on the fence about doing the mods to my DSL100....I may do a little tube rolling to see if I can tame the high end a little that way, instead of clipping caps out of the amp, may work, may not, I'm gonna try it out tomorrow to see if the tubes make any differences & take it from there...
 
rayc said:
Tapudi,
I like the "dark" rhythm guitar.
Delay is fairly subtle - well done you on not pushing it hard.
I love the ebow sound/effect.
I'd buy one except they are stupidly expensive downunder - $140+I don't have a delay pedal either - I'm too hopeless with that sort of thing not to rely on non destructive FX in the box.
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Hey thanks ray. Yeah, I tried to keep the delay subtle, hopefully it wasn't too subtle to show off the pedal a bit. Delays and ebows go together very well. Add a wah pedal into the fray for some bizarre fun.

Agreed on their expense. I think this one ran around $100 or $120, and it's just one of those things that you use once in a blue moon. It makes a fun toy but it's a bit of a novelty. There's a surprisingly steep learning curve with them at first, they're really touchy!
 
minerman said:
Tadpui: I actually like that clip man, & it's nice to hear some tones in a mix context just to hear how they sit with the other instruments...Myself I don't think the rhythm tone is too dark, it's actually about right (to me) in the mix....Maybe just a hair brighter, but not much....Good job man...And yes, that's the whole reason of having the strat/lp/ibby, contrast dude, I want my tones to sound good, but have a variety too...

I'm still on the fence about doing the mods to my DSL100....I may do a little tube rolling to see if I can tame the high end a little that way, instead of clipping caps out of the amp, may work, may not, I'm gonna try it out tomorrow to see if the tubes make any differences & take it from there...
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Hey thanks man! It's darker than I had expected, but I agree that it seems to work in the mix.

On the DSL mods, I wouldn't be in a big rush. From what I've heard of your tones here, it sounds great recorded. That brightness that makes for ear needles in a room seems to come across very well through a mic and in a mix. You've got a dark Marshall sound in the Chupa, and a bright Marshall sound in the DSL. I'd be afraid that after the mods the DSL would sound just like the Chupa, then you'd have two of the same amp.
 
rayc said:

Same old short powerpoppy thing from before but with a lead intro added.
Double tracked with some tonal variation and a slight change in one spot.
How does the lead sound tone wise compared to the track?
It's only a guide/experiment but does it do the job?
Makes the track a little more '78 to my ears.
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I think the lead line is fizzy. It sounds direct to me. The rest sounds okay and I haven't forgotten about you! I just haven't had the time. I haven't even been working on my own stuff much lately. You're next.

Tadpui said:
I was jacking around with the new delay pedal, so I threw down a quick repeating chord progression. Then I dug out the e-bow for some real shoe-gazing fun. The rhythm guitar came out pretty dark, I think either my tone knob was rolled too far back, or my cab-grabber has sagged and the mic is farther from the cone center than it used to be.

Guitar: Tele, neck pickup, tone rolled back (and volume rolled back for the e-bow tracks)
Amp: Fender '68 Deluxe Reverb RI, vintage channel (Volume: 5, Treble: 5, Bass: 3, Reverb: 3)
Mic: SM57, Preamp: RME FF UCX
Delay is a JHS Panther Cub in front of the amp (not in the fx loop).
e-bow tracks...well, doesn't really matter. It seems all e-bow tracks sound about the same no matter what you send them through :)

And for posterity, bass is a Fender MIM P-bass, drums are SD2.0 Roots with the rods selected.

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I do think the guitar sounds dark. The whole mix is dark. There's a fine line between clean clarity and too bright. The rhythm guitar, bass, and huge room on the drums makes it sound dark to me. Good tones though, just brighten em up some.

minerman said:
Greg: Wow man, that's cool the strat was still in tune...how long had it sat there??? FWIW, I do like strat tones, some of the old Hendrix stuff I like (Little Wing, Wind Cries Mary), & of course SRV, but they're kinda close to the same thing in ways...I mainly want the strat tone for contrast to the thick LP sound I've already got...The Ibanez will do a pretty close approximation of that sound too, just a little different...
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Um, my red Strat sat untouched for at least a year. At least. I had a new nut made for it a while back and he did a set up and re-string and I never messed with it since getting it back. I just plucked it a few times and put it on the stand. The only action it got was a few bumps from grabbing the bass which sits right next to it. It is on most of my older recordings though. All I had was this red Strat and the Epi SG and a buddy's JCM 800. I recorded everything with those two guitars. SG rhythm on one side, Strat rhythm on the other. I'm not that interested in textures and colors and variety and tools in the toolbox and all that stuff, so a Strat doesn't do me much good. My Strat tracks always end up sounding like my Gibson tracks, and I don't like the Strat, so fuck it. I'd rather just play my Gibsons. They sound and feel different enough to me to make me happy, even if they do probably all sound about the same recorded. And if I really wanna get off the farm, I grab the Mosrite clone. That thing murders my Strat.

Here's probably the last thing I recorded with the Strat, about two years ago. Maybe longer. I think this was the Strat anyway. Shit I don't even know. I think the rhythms are the Strat, and the leads the Les Paul. I do know this was done with my old Voodoo modded JCM 900 MkIII. Great amp, I wish I still had it.
 
Lol....I'd heard that song (your version) a few times before dude, so I got curious & looked up Leonard Cohen on YouTube...Lol...He sucks ass man, you did him a favor by covering that song (if it's even his song) punk-style...:laughings:

And to be honest, I can't tell if one guitar is a strat & the other is a Gibson, they both sound about the same to me, in the mix anyway...

Why'd you get rid of your JCM900 for anyway dude??? Didn't you flip it to get the JVM??? I was around then, but not like I am now...

I think I'm just gonna roll a couple/few tubes in the pre-amp of the DSL to see if I can tame the high end a little...I don't think there's any need for me to go snipping shit out of the circuit, when Marshall put that shit there for a reason...lol...

Might post some before/after clips to see, but as I've been down this road before with my other amps, I really don't expect to hear much, if any difference at all....:)
 
Yeah listening back that might not be the Strat after all. I really don't remember. I'll need to dig out something older.

I had two 900s actually. Both MkIIIs, one a 50 watt and one a 100w. The 50w had tons of issues and I returned it for the 100w which was a killer. That amp was great and I really do regret ditching it. It had Mercury transformers and the tone stack and gain structure had been tweaked by Voodoo and it was truly a great sounding amp. Maybe the best 900 on the planet. Lol. For real. It was awesome, and so loud. Every bit as punchy and loud as my Plexi or 800. Those massive transformers really kept it very articulate no matter what.

Anyway, I sold it off after buying the JMP 2204. At that point I had the JVM and the 2204, and the 900 just fell out of favor. So I sold it for what I'd just bought the 2204 for and broke even. Not many 900s can sell for a thousand bucks. This one did easily.
 
I remember seeing pics of your 900, pretty sure it was the 100w though, but not 100% sure...I remember saying to myself "I'll have a big amp or two one of these days"...lol...

While I don't remember what amp you were using at the time (when I first started really coming to this forum, I've been a member for years, but didn't come here much for a long time), I do remember that your guitar tones were always good sounding to me...Fuck man, I remember when you were using Guitar Rig for some of your songs....I actually asked you a few questions about getting sounds of of it (Guitar Rig)...Do you remember that??? Lol...That has to have been at least 4-5 years ago...
 
What do you gents know about the Line6 DT25 Head - Thomann UK
It's a Line 6 with tubes but also modeling. I thought it might be an option for all the DI stuff I do at home but I've always been suspicious of Line 6 since the Spider. I don't trust any of these Thomann reviews since they've all got Stockholm syndrome.

There's one going for about half price new at the moment.


edit: forget it, it seems to be dodgy as hell
 
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Schwarzenyaeger said:
What do you gents know about the Line6 DT25 Head - Thomann UK
It's a Line 6 with tubes but also modeling. I thought it might be an option for all the DI stuff I do at home but I've always been suspicious of Line 6 since the Spider. I don't trust any of these Thomann reviews since they've all got Stockholm syndrome.

There's one going for about half price new at the moment.


edit: forget it, it seems to be dodgy as hell
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I've never played through one of the DT25's but I've heard good & bad things about 'em on the 'net....I did have a Spider Valvle 2x12, but that was a pretty long time ago, & I didn't keep it long enough to really get to use it much, as it was loud as fuck for a 40w amp, & I went the modeling/ampsim route because of the noise thing...

I've heard some decent clips with it, but like anything being advertised to sell, I'm sure they made it sound super duper great...

What's dodgy about it dude???
 
Not so much dodgy but it seems that there are better options for the same price of the head plus an hd500 to control it.
Since I'm never going to be able to host an amp and cab the way i live, I've actually been thinking about buying a used axe fx ultra. Seems like a better choice that the dt25.
 
minerman said:
I remember seeing pics of your 900, pretty sure it was the 100w though, but not 100% sure...I remember saying to myself "I'll have a big amp or two one of these days"...lol...

While I don't remember what amp you were using at the time (when I first started really coming to this forum, I've been a member for years, but didn't come here much for a long time), I do remember that your guitar tones were always good sounding to me...Fuck man, I remember when you were using Guitar Rig for some of your songs....I actually asked you a few questions about getting sounds of of it (Guitar Rig)...Do you remember that??? Lol...That has to have been at least 4-5 years ago...
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I don't remember that. Lol. It's been at least 6-7 years since I've used sims I think. Here's my story in mostly chronological order as I remember it....When I first started digital recording I was using a Digitech processor thing into a solid state amp. It sucked, but it got me going. Then I switched to Guitar Rig and it was way better. I think it was 2008 when I started using my buddy's 50w JCM 800. That thing was modded for mega gain. And I'd also use their Diamond and Krank amps. Too metal. The JCM 800 was the one I'd always go for, and he had a cab with some kind of Greenback clones in it. It was pretty awesome. That was when I'd use the Strat a lot. But I got tired of lugging gear to the practice space just to record guitar tracks so I started pestering Lt Bob for some little amp ideas and started buying my own shit in 2011. I got a Diamond Assassin 18w head and an Avatar V30 2x12. Cool little rig, but it didn't take long to confirm that big Marshall heads and big cabs are what I need to do, so I started hunting for my own Marshalls. I knew I love Plexis and 800s but they were too expensive, so I found the 50w JCM 900 MkIII and jumped on it. I didn't like it through the V30 2x12, so I scored a mint 1960a for $275. I had my own Marshall halfstack. That was way better. I hadn't had a Marshall rig since like 1992 which was stolen. Anyway, I suspected something was off with the 50w MkIII so I started digging around and couldn't get it to bias right. At the same time I found the killer Voodoo modded 100w version that just blew mine away, so I flipped them. Now I was getting somewhere so I sold the little Diamond Assassin, and swapped some Greenbacks into my 4x12 on an even speaker trade. This rig sounded better than my buddy's modded 800 to my ears, so at this point I started buying better guitars. I got the Gold Top LP. I got some pedals. Then the floodgates opened and I got the JVM. Then I got the Hallmark Mosrite thing. Then I got the JMP 2204. My wife was not happy about the JMP so that's when I sold the Voodoo 900 to make up for it. That thing was on Craigslist for about 5 minutes. Some guy came down from way north Texas to get it and he handed me my full asking price without even trying to talk me down. So that cooled off the Missus. Then I got another 4x12 cab just to have it. I wanted a true full stack, just because it's ridiculous. Then I got the Plexi. Then I even-traded the Avatar 2x12 for another 4x12 because why not? Another 4x12! I kept my V30s though and put some old G12T-75s in the 2x12 before the trade. And last but not least, I finally found my #1 Marshall, the right JCM 800 for the right price. Oh my God I love my JCM 800. At that point, I felt finished. I'm done. I haven't had even an inkling of amp GAS since the getting 800. Just for a little lagniappe, I scored some sweet SGs and that's that. That was a multi-year flurry of spending and selling and buying and trading but I'm good now. I'm cured. There's nothing out there that makes me think I can do better. There's nothing about my shit that leaves me wanting for more. I crawled my way up from a processor feeding a crappy SS amp, through sims, through little amps, all the way up to some of the loudest most obscene displays of amplification overkill there ever was.

Whew that was a long stupid post. TL/DR.
 
naw ...... that was a great post ..... interesting read.


You know what would interest me? hearing some of your early tones with the digital processor.
I know you have ears so I'm kinda curious about what you managed to do back then.
 
Schwarzenyaeger said:
Not so much dodgy but it seems that there are better options for the same price of the head plus an hd500 to control it.
Since I'm never going to be able to host an amp and cab the way i live, I've actually been thinking about buying a used axe fx ultra. Seems like a better choice that the dt25.
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Although I've never used an axefx I've read an awful lot of reviews and also interviews with artists that use them.
There's no doubt in my mind the axefx would be FAR better than the dt25.
I've seen too many good musicians like Dweezil Zappa rave about the things so there's got to be something to them.
 
I agree Lt Bob, that was a great Greg post....thats a lot of work getting to find the tones, and Ive heard some recordings that are really top notch. Its kind of encouraging to see the gradual process....I suppose some just get lucky and nail it first time out because they start with a Twin or a Marshall.

yeah man I been on the guitar tone path and the Axe FX gets a lot of boner points, but I came across a few that were a year later or so and some of the new buzz was calmed down, but still very positive.....for me, a year later is a huge compliment review.
 
Thanks guys, I'm surprised yall even read it. :laughings:

It was a lot of work, and a lot of time, and a lot of money, but a lot of learning too. I always knew that loud Marshall is my kind of sound. Always. Every guitar player and guitar sound I've ever liked has been loud Marshall sound. I remember Lt Bob telling me while I was asking him about little amps, he said, "you know you're just going to end up with Marshalls, right?" Lol. Yup. He was right. There simply is no substitute for "that" sound. You can get lots of sounds lots of ways, but the big roaring Marshall sound only happens one way - big roaring Marshall. To me that is the sound of rock and roll. All of this could have been much easier if I'd just bought what I always knew I needed right off the bat, but I tried to cheat it like just about everyone else does. But I know better...if that's the sound someone is after. That's why I always harp on about being loud and using big shit if you can. It just sounds better. I know not everyone can have a Plexi feeding two or more cabs going at full blast, but if you can, fucking do it! You won't be sorry. You can try every trick in the book, use sims, AssFx, whatever, but that is the sound you're trying to copy. All of those modelers and sims and PODS and all that shit are trying to simulate the sound of a mega amp kicking out the jams. If you can do it the real way, do it. That's what I've learned most of all. There's no substitute for the real thing. You can fuck your hand, or fuck a vagina. Which is better?

Anyway...on that note, I'll try to dig out some of my old Digitech/SS amp recordings. I might have some on an old harddrive. I've tried to forget that part of my life. :laughings:
 
I agree, great post Greg!!!

How did your Marshall rig get stolen man??? I'd be one pissed of motherfucker if something of mine like that got gone...
 
minerman said:
I agree, great post Greg!!!

How did your Marshall rig get stolen man??? I'd be one pissed of motherfucker if something of mine like that got gone...
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Someone broke into my house. Back in those days, I was in a pretty popular local band and we always had parties and people at the house. Always. It was party central. Drugs, booze, chicks, total free for all. The downside was that everyone in the scene knew where we had all our shit - in a storage space under the stairs. Drums, guitars, pedals, basses, amps, all kinds of shit under there, including my JCM 900 halfstack. All stolen, and most of it was mine. The only things I had left was my red Strat, a P-Bass, and a junky ol Peavey bass amp, and that's only because they happened to be in the trunk of my GTO at the time. No receipts, no insurance, no hope for recovery. Gone forever.

The thing is I know who did it, but without actual proof, I got nothing to go on. The cops were no help. My neighbors saw the car and I know who it was. I haven't seen this guy since then but I know who it is and when we cross paths he will get the beatdown of the century. Without receipts and serial numbers I couldn't do anything. There were no receipts. Everything we had was done through trades and swaps and lending and borrowing. Cash deals and shit.

The worst thing was seeing one of my stolen basses much much later hanging on the wall at a Guitar Center. It was an Epiphone 260 that I'd modded to be able to be played with a pick without falling apart. And there it was with my mod still intact, hanging there. I loved that bass.
 
I know those feels. I had shit 'stolen' before resurface before my eyes. I had a REALLY old 50 Watt Yamaha something or other that i had some shop class friends update and trick out to make it a little grittier and louder. I Lent that to an "individual" to hold onto when i moved until i could make arrangements to either move it out with me or sell it. (I didn't want to sell it as it was my first baby) Long story short, i was watching youtube and saw it in some shitty metals bands live videos and i was like, strange he has my bands sticker on his amp of the same make *lightbulb goes off*

Call said individual, claims it was stolen. Contact band, they said they legitimately bought it. I was really mad. Couldn't get the truth out of either of them (this was the days before email chain, screenshots and texting) so i just cut my losses and cried into a beer.

I sort of miss it. But i am grown up now and i have a credit card. If i want an amp i'll go get one. Which if this recession would hurry the heck up and get over with i can start test driving. My brother decided he is going to keep his AD30 under his roof for the time being. Hopefully when his kid arrives that conversation will have a different outcome. HAHA.
 
Damn man, I fuckin' hate a thief...I'm the kind of person that if you asked, I'd probably just give something to you (within reason), or do what I could to help someone out...That's really fucked up man, & if I were in your shoes, I'd probably do the same if/when I ran up on that guy...That's really fucked up man...

I've got a nephew like that (not the one that plays guitar, this one's a drummer), he's been strung out on dope for 10+ years, & while I love the bastard, I wouldn't trust him in a shit-house with a muzzle on...I totaled a Z71 4x4 out about 8-9 years ago, & had a kick-ass Kenwood stereo system in it, cd changer, sub-woofer, power amps, just a kick-ass system...My truck is sitting at the insurance place, getting ready to be hauled off & crushed (the following Monday), & I'm pretty fucked up, doing good to walk. I'd planned on going out there, & getting my stereo/shit out of the truck like on Friday, this was on Tuesday...A buddy of mine calls me & tells me my nephew & his girlfriend are out there looking at the truck, so I ride out there, & come in the back of the parking lot...This motherfucker (which is my nephew too) has a fuckin' crowbar trying to pry the doors open so he can steal my shit...I just politely walk up & ask him what the fuck he's doing you know??? "Oh, I was making sure nobody could get into it, because I know you have a lot of $$$ in that stereo"....Yeah, right...I didn't hit him or anything, but I made my point that while I wasn't really able to fight, I'd just fuckin' shoot him & be done with it...The pistol stuck down in the front of my pants made sure that he knew that too...Fuckin' thieves....
 
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