The Home For Abandoned Sentences

[robgreen]

Hey, it's clearly odd song weekend on hr.com. Here's another one to join the party...

This started out a while ago as a set of lyrics. I made a little 90 second acoustic and voice demo from them and then built this big arrangement around it. I wanted to make something that sounded a bit different from my normal stuff, so I approached pretty much everything in the recording process differently. After all the tweaking, it now probably just sounds like everything else!?

When I came back to do the vocals, I just couldn't get them to work - it sounded a bit pedestrian and all the clumsy phrases jutted out horribly. I really liked the instrumental mix and didn't want to put a substandard melody to it, so put it to one side for a while and did the collab with Ray.

Anyway, I've got a big coursework deadline this week, so naturally I decided to spend most of yesterday revisiting this and working out what to do with the vocals instead

As I say, it's a bit odd. Too much so? I just can't gauge whether it kinda works and I'm pretty close or still way off.

Thoughts about mix/song/performance/arrangement appreciated as ever:



Thanks
Rob

 

[heatmiser]

Yeah, stylistically this is quite a departure for you, so don't fret that it sounds like everything else.

I'm liking the drum/bass combo on this. It's tight and moves along nicely. Maybe the kick is a bit too loud...? Not sure...I like it, but yeah...I just heard a section where it really popped out more than I think I wanted for a bit.

The vocal processing sounds similar to what you do normally (did you use your standard chain of 16 FX for that natural sound here ?). It is of course hard to make out what's going on lyrically when you've got the counterpoints going, but I like the disorienting effect it has. Others may disagree.

I definitely don't think it is too strange or anything. You could get a lot weirder than that and I'd still be right there with you. I enjoyed it quite a bit and was happy it popped up while I happened to be checking out other tunes.

 

[Mr Clean]

I really like this tune. It's very different (The beauty of the forum and it's contributors, all different)

I didn't find it weird at all. Obviously the effects on the vocals make it sounds a little strange but it totally works for the tune. The only thing I would say is the drums sounded a little tame in regard to the rest of the instrumentation. I felt they could be a little heavier to give it the 'kick up the arse' I feel the song deserves. (It is late though and I'm not listening at great volume)

For a 4 min+ song it passed by really quickly. I thought it was about 2 minutes long. Had to have another listen to see if I missed anything.

Really enjoyed the track Rob, thanks for sharing. I'll be back in the morning to TURN IT UP!

 

[rayc]

To me the snare, percussion generally, bass line & melody give it an 80's rock meets electronics feel: not the twee pop stuff but the more edgy stuff - closer to Joy Division (well the Warsaw incarnation anyway).
I really like the atmospherics of it.
Very Cool.
It went by very quickly - odd!

 

[Greg_L]

The vocals are messy and distracting. Way too much vocal stuff for me. I really can't make out hardly any of it. The left leaning snare is a little weird to me too. There seems to be like a cloud of low mid haze over the whole thing. I like the guitar and bass sounds. It's not bad, it's just not jiving with me.

 

[robgreen]

Yeah, stylistically this is quite a departure for you, so don't fret that it sounds like everything else.

I'm liking the drum/bass combo on this. It's tight and moves along nicely. Maybe the kick is a bit too loud...? Not sure...I like it, but yeah...I just heard a section where it really popped out more than I think I wanted for a bit.

The vocal processing sounds similar to what you do normally (did you use your standard chain of 16 FX for that natural sound here ?). It is of course hard to make out what's going on lyrically when you've got the counterpoints going, but I like the disorienting effect it has. Others may disagree.

I definitely don't think it is too strange or anything. You could get a lot weirder than that and I'd still be right there with you. I enjoyed it quite a bit and was happy it popped up while I happened to be checking out other tunes.

Thanks a lot Pete, that's a relief that it 'works' - I was worried in case it was a bust. Don't think I've been so nervous about posting up a tune since the very first time...

With regard to your comment about my "16 easy steps to a natural sound programme" I think there's actually a little less on the main vocal than usual (though still quite a bit on the various backing and counterpoint vocals). One of the changes I made this time around was to use some spare loft insulation stuff to attempt a bit of pseudo-acoustic treatment on the vocals. I'm looking to do something proper over the summer and I'm sure that it would be picked apart by those who understand this kind of thing better, but to my ears it did something to reduce the reflections that I seem to spend half my mixing time trying to address.

I was after a bit of ambiguity with the vocals, so I wasn't too fussed about them being lyrically clear. Maybe they're too much so though - it's hard to gauge because knowing them so well, I can make out every word. I'll look at that and where the kick might be popping out too much on the update. Thanks man

I really like this tune. It's very different (The beauty of the forum and it's contributors, all different)

I didn't find it weird at all. Obviously the effects on the vocals make it sounds a little strange but it totally works for the tune. The only thing I would say is the drums sounded a little tame in regard to the rest of the instrumentation. I felt they could be a little heavier to give it the 'kick up the arse' I feel the song deserves. (It is late though and I'm not listening at great volume)

For a 4 min+ song it passed by really quickly. I thought it was about 2 minutes long. Had to have another listen to see if I missed anything.

Really enjoyed the track Rob, thanks for sharing. I'll be back in the morning to TURN IT UP!

Excellent, thanks Mr Clean. I'm really glad it works for you and I agree that the diversity is one of the really cool things about this place

I totally agree about the drums. Just after posting this up on soundcloud I listened to something off the new War on Drugs record which I guess has some stylistic similarities and the drums on mine really sounded thin and crappy in comparison with those. I know that programme drums are always going to pale in comparison with real and professionally recorded ones, but I'm sure I can get something better. They were one of the early things I did in the evolution of this song and I never went back to them after the rest of the mix was done. I'll definitely revisit these for the update and see if I can get something a bit bigger and more bombastic. Thanks again

 

[robgreen]

To me the snare, percussion generally, bass line & melody give it an 80's rock meets electronics feel: not the twee pop stuff but the more edgy stuff - closer to Joy Division (well the Warsaw incarnation anyway).
I really like the atmospherics of it.
Very Cool.
It went by very quickly - odd!

Cool, thanks Ray - I hear the 80s kind of feel. About 80% of 80s music I absolutely can't stand, but there's a narrow vein of music from that era that really does resonate with me. I guess it tends to be the more new wave and slightly melancholy end of the spectrum. I'm a big fan of Peter Hook's bass sound in all his various band incarnations, so once the scratch demo was done, a big growly bass sound was the first thing I did to build the whole rest of the song around. It was another thing I approached a bit differently - miking the bass from my amp rather than just the normal DI-ing. There is a DI take on there, but much lower in the mix to try and add a bit of warmth. I really like the result.

Another mention of this song feeling shorter than it is, that's interesting! Cheers man

The vocals are messy and distracting. Way too much vocal stuff for me. I really can't make out hardly any of it. The left leaning snare is a little weird to me too. There seems to be like a cloud of low mid haze over the whole thing. I like the guitar and bass sounds. It's not bad, it's just not jiving with me.

Hey, that's cool Greg, I can see why this might not be your kind of thing. Thanks for your thoughts anyway, I appreciate it. As I posted above, I was after a bit of vocal ambiguity - whenever I tried it straight the mix just didn't work against the soundscape of the instrumentation, so I went for layers instead. Maybe it's too much - I'll have a think about it on the update and decide where to draw the line between achieving balance so that it doesn't sound messy and retaining the layering/quirkiness. I'll look too at where it might a bit over-dominant in the lower mids. Thanks bud

 

[VomitHatSteve]

I'm only half-listening as I'm trying to work at the same time, but in that context it's pretty good. It's a nice, dark, ambient kind of thing. I didn't really parse any of the lyrics; they were just kind of a wash of sound.

 

[fritsthegirl]

Oh man, at the start I totally heard this as the soundtrack to the intro of a really wicked film. Awesome vibe. Loved it.

I dunno, for me, the vocals sound really good but are too loud. I agree with heat, they're disorienting, and it's great. I really like all the stuff going on there. I could make out every word so I might be a bit more inclined to tell you to fuck it up a bit more. I'd esp. like to hear the off timed background vocal stuff a bit louder.

Truthfully, I wasn't expecting vocals at all for some reason. I think I enjoyed the music so much that when they came in, I wanted them to sit behind. Anyway, just my thoughts, it sounds pretty damn good as you have it. It's a great tune, enjoyed it.

 

[TripleM]

Loved that driving bass. That sounded great. Really worked well with the drums.

The vocal processing concept was kind of cool. Not my thing style-wise, but cool. Couldn't understand much as a result. So you'll have to decide if that's a big deal. Might help if you back off the guitars a bit when the vocal is there.

Tone on things sounded good.

 

[robgreen]

I'm only half-listening as I'm trying to work at the same time, but in that context it's pretty good. It's a nice, dark, ambient kind of thing. I didn't really parse any of the lyrics; they were just kind of a wash of sound.

Cool, thanks for listening Steve - dark and ambient is good for me. I think 'wash of sound' too up to a point, I need to have a think about whether I want to clear them up a bit or leave them as such. Thanks

Oh man, at the start I totally heard this as the soundtrack to the intro of a really wicked film. Awesome vibe. Loved it.

I dunno, for me, the vocals sound really good but are too loud. I agree with heat, they're disorienting, and it's great. I really like all the stuff going on there. I could make out every word so I might be a bit more inclined to tell you to fuck it up a bit more. I'd esp. like to hear the off timed background vocal stuff a bit louder.

Truthfully, I wasn't expecting vocals at all for some reason. I think I enjoyed the music so much that when they came in, I wanted them to sit behind. Anyway, just my thoughts, it sounds pretty damn good as you have it. It's a great tune, enjoyed it.

Ace, thanks Frits - I really like the intro part too. It was a really fun song to do, because the whole thing was a blank canvas and I had no real idea of where I wanted to take it when I started out. It meant that I could just experiment with stuff and see what worked/what didn't until it all came together. It nearly did end up as an instrumental when I couldn't find a vocal arrangement that fitted, but it did need that melody to carry the song.

Your 'fuck it up more' suggestion made me laugh - maybe I should do a 'straighter' mix and a 'weirded up' one as alternatives to this middle ground mix. People could just pick whichever version suited their tastes...

Thanks again Frits, I'm really glad you liked it

Loved that driving bass. That sounded great. Really worked well with the drums.

The vocal processing concept was kind of cool. Not my thing style-wise, but cool. Couldn't understand much as a result. So you'll have to decide if that's a big deal. Might help if you back off the guitars a bit when the vocal is there.

Tone on things sounded good.

Thanks a lot for your thoughts trip. As I said above, I tried to approach stuff differently when it came to recording, so I'm glad that was reflected in the tone - particularly the bass.

Thanks for your thoughts on the vocals too - given the diversity of opinions from folks, it's going to mainly be a judgement call based on personal taste, rather than trying to 'fix' something that's out of whack. Cheers fella

 

[robgreen]

I don't know whether anyone's interested or not, but given the unintelligibility of the vocals, I thought I'd post up the lyrics:

When all this starts I can't be hear
I walked outside to make this clear
My mask is slipping with the fear
I'll never be alone

No tock nor ticking from the clock
Just echoes all around the block
This cold resistance is no shock
To those who come back here

I'm the charity that never gives
The heart that beats but never lives
I'm the home for abandoned sentences

Well if you look you'll see me there
Beyond the point where eagles dare
I vanished in a solar flare
And landed far from home

And this is where I will reside
Where winds will whip me from both sides
'Hey do something' call big eyes
And chill me to the bone

I am the night that passes ships
The smile on Mona Lisa's lips
I'm the home for abandoned sentences

I came in peace, but left in war
And knocked all comers to the floor
We finally settled on a draw
'Cos no one wins in war

I am the drop that follows lifts
The wind that whistles through snow drifts
I'm the home for abandoned...

Maybe they should have remained ambiguous after all

 

[Tadpui]

I think that we have relatively similar tastes in music, so I'm always interested to hear what you come up with...

I'm listening on my ancient consumer 4.1 system, which hides hi-freq sounds but exaggerates lo-freq sounds. But I know this system well, and I can barely hear the bass guitar. It's there in the midrange, but it doesn't pump my subwoofer like most songs do in this room. The kick is too loud in this mix, but with more lows in the bass guitar it would be right at home right where it is. I'll have to give this a listen on my studio monitors downstairs to get a better handle on the frequency balance (better speakers, way shittier listening environment).

rayc mentioned Joy Division, and while I'm not all that familiar with them, I totally agree that this is in the vein of that 80's indie sound. Maybe even a little of the minimalist spirit of the xx, with a little early Modest Mouse thrown in. Personally, I love the restraint. This is definitely a cool song. Like other have said, the vocals kind of blend into everything. I've always been a fan of the "vocals as another instrument" philosophy, so if they're not front and center, I'm OK with it.

The mix sounds scooped out in the mids, like all of the instruments have that 'V' curve to them on an EQ. If you end up re-tracking anything, don't be afraid of the mids.

The drums definitely sound canned, but other than the snare, they work in this context. Maybe a smidge of reverb on it, or something to help it blend in to the other relatively wet instruments.

 

[robgreen]

I think that we have relatively similar tastes in music, so I'm always interested to hear what you come up with...

I'm listening on my ancient consumer 4.1 system, which hides hi-freq sounds but exaggerates lo-freq sounds. But I know this system well, and I can barely hear the bass guitar. It's there in the midrange, but it doesn't pump my subwoofer like most songs do in this room. The kick is too loud in this mix, but with more lows in the bass guitar it would be right at home right where it is. I'll have to give this a listen on my studio monitors downstairs to get a better handle on the frequency balance (better speakers, way shittier listening environment).

rayc mentioned Joy Division, and while I'm not all that familiar with them, I totally agree that this is in the vein of that 80's indie sound. Maybe even a little of the minimalist spirit of the xx, with a little early Modest Mouse thrown in. Personally, I love the restraint. This is definitely a cool song. Like other have said, the vocals kind of blend into everything. I've always been a fan of the "vocals as another instrument" philosophy, so if they're not front and center, I'm OK with it.

The mix sounds scooped out in the mids, like all of the instruments have that 'V' curve to them on an EQ. If you end up re-tracking anything, don't be afraid of the mids.

The drums definitely sound canned, but other than the snare, they work in this context. Maybe a smidge of reverb on it, or something to help it blend in to the other relatively wet instruments.

Thanks a lot for your thoughts Tadpui. I'm really surprised you can't hear the bass because it's probably the most prominent component in the song. That said, I don't have a subwoofer, maybe the frequencies that are normally pumped by that are not the main ones of the bass line? I dunno, I'd be surprised if that were the case - wouldn't the subwoofer be expected to deal with like 20-200Hz? I'd be surprised if that wasn't where the majority of my bassline was. When I'm on my DAW PC tomorrow, I'll have a look with a spectrum analyser.

Likewise with the mids. I haven't scooped anything at all out in the mid ranges, and listening on a few different speakers I thought that was probably where most mix elements were located. Greg thought it was a bit cluttered in the lower mids, and I can certainly hear some muddiness there too. I thought the lower mids and lack of 'air' up top were the main concerns for the remix - amazing how different systems can have such an influence. Thanks for letting me know how it comes across on your system. It would be interesting to know whether you pick up the same issues on your studio monitors.

Thanks for your thoughts on the drums too - yeah, they're not the best. Even for canned drums, I think I should be able to get something better sounding. I'll factor in your thoughts around the kick and snare when I update.

Glad the vocals work for you - I've been trying to get that 'vocals as another instrument' thing to work on a few songs, but never managed it before. As I say, it's impossible to gauge their clarity of your vocals in the ears of others.

The XX and early Modest Mouse - yeah that's cool, I really like both of those. I didn't consciously think of either when I was working on this, but I can see how the MM reference comes in, especially around Moon & Antarctica kind of time. Thanks a lot man, hopefully I can get all the issues on this one ironed out eventually

 

[fat_fleet]

Hi Rob, I listened to this a few times but only just now getting to comment. I really like what you're doing with the vocals on this..it is really cool. And I think the robot drums seems pretty fitting for the genre (whatever that is). I like how it builds at the start too. I think you could even have some claps come in with the drum machine at the very beginning before the vocals.

I kind of hear the lo-middiness that Greg was talking about but, for me, it seems more from lack of activity in those >2k frequencies, rather than too much lo's. Also, while the bass tone gets the job done, I'd like to hear a much fuller rounder, more upfront presence with it..specially on a tune like this...it should bump a little. I'm on earbuds with a laptop that sounds radically different depending on the audio eq preset. Also, listening a few nights back I thought I heard the kick sticking out a little. Not hearing that as much now, not sure if you changed the mix or if my ears are wonky?

Anyways, cool song. Enjoyed it a lot, many good ideas at play as usual.

 

[fat_fleet]

Little bit of a Depeche Modey vibe if I daresay?

 

[robgreen]

Hi Rob, I listened to this a few times but only just now getting to comment. I really like what you're doing with the vocals on this..it is really cool. And I think the robot drums seems pretty fitting for the genre (whatever that is). I like how it builds at the start too. I think you could even have some claps come in with the drum machine at the very beginning before the vocals.

I kind of hear the lo-middiness that Greg was talking about but, for me, it seems more from lack of activity in those >2k frequencies, rather than too much lo's. Also, while the bass tone gets the job done, I'd like to hear a much fuller rounder, more upfront presence with it..specially on a tune like this...it should bump a little. I'm on earbuds with a laptop that sounds radically different depending on the audio eq preset. Also, listening a few nights back I thought I heard the kick sticking out a little. Not hearing that as much now, not sure if you changed the mix or if my ears are wonky?

Anyways, cool song. Enjoyed it a lot, many good ideas at play as usual.

Ha, I've no idea what genre it is either. It's funny, I never notice that my mixes are skewed towards the lows until people point it out...and as soon as they do, I can't believe that I didn't pick up on it earlier. It's like I can't hear it without the prompting...

It's still the original mix that's up. I've started re-working the tune, but not uploaded anything else so far. You're right about the kick - it's peaking quite a bit higher than everything else at the moment and I think it's taking up all of the headroom. I need to take a proper look at what's been low passed and what's just plain dark because it's the limitations of my current setup - and see what and where I can make some changes. This tune has about twice as many tracks as I usually have, so it's maybe unsurprising that it's not quite there yet.

The claps do come in with the drum machine, but they're perhaps a bit low. There are about five tracks of handclaps and one of drum machine claps that I quite liked the crack of. I brought the levels of them down shortly before posting, but they did add a bit of texture, so I'll look at bumping them back. I'll have a think about the bass too.

I'm glad you like it though, and that the general vocal direction works. Thanks a lot for checking out fleet and for your thoughts too. I'll post up a remix when I think I've got some improvement.

Little bit of a Depeche Modey vibe if I daresay?

Yeah, they're not really a band I ever listen too, but I can kind of see where you're coming from with that. It's maybe something in the drums and vocal styling? Funny I didn't pick up on this 80s thing during recording and probably not until ray mentioned it tbh.

 

[dobro]

Hey, it's clearly odd song weekend on hr.com. Here's another one to join the party...

This started out a while ago as a set of lyrics. I made a little 90 second acoustic and voice demo from them and then built this big arrangement around it. I wanted to make something that sounded a bit different from my normal stuff, so I approached pretty much everything in the recording process differently. After all the tweaking, it now probably just sounds like everything else!?

When I came back to do the vocals, I just couldn't get them to work - it sounded a bit pedestrian and all the clumsy phrases jutted out horribly. I really liked the instrumental mix and didn't want to put a substandard melody to it, so put it to one side for a while and did the collab with Ray.

Anyway, I've got a big coursework deadline this week, so naturally I decided to spend most of yesterday revisiting this and working out what to do with the vocals instead

As I say, it's a bit odd. Too much so? I just can't gauge whether it kinda works and I'm pretty close or still way off.

Thoughts about mix/song/performance/arrangement appreciated as ever:



Thanks
Rob

I like how it segued from max reverb in the intro to something more normal. How bout just a *touch* of space on that snare? It's sort of sticking out a bit. And it's panned left. Why'd you do that? Vocals: I'd like to hear 'em better. How about just turning up the main vocal 2 dB?

 

[robgreen]

I like how it segued from max reverb in the intro to something more normal. How bout just a *touch* of space on that snare? It's sort of sticking out a bit. And it's panned left. Why'd you do that? Vocals: I'd like to hear 'em better. How about just turning up the main vocal 2 dB?

Cool, thanks for those thoughts dobro. I'm working on an update at the moment which should sort some of these issue out. I couldn't say why the snare was panned left - I just tend to fiddle with stuff until I get it as close to how I want it as possible. It might have been an attempt to widen the stereo field. I'm rebalancing all the drums in particular, so I'll factor your thoughts in there and with the vocals too.

Glad the transition worked - there are quite a few different sections on the song and I feel that they tend to segue into each other pretty well. Thanks fella.

 

[Jessica_X]

Weird! I like it!
I love the drums and bass guitar arrangement.
I really like the echoey/whispery effect.
I love how odd the concept of "home for abandoned sentences" is. What an unlikely thing to have in a song.
I think the lead vocal part should be a little louder, to make it easier to understand the words and cut down on confusion.
I think the bass drum is a little too loud.
Also, I thought the intro was way too long. It's a minute before the words start, and I was getting kind of antsy.
This is so cool, though. It's hard to believe you thought it might not be any good...songs can be tricky though.