dobro
Well-known member
High praise.
Yeah, the genius is in the way it's put, though. What it's describing (whatever he meant it to mean) is the human mind. It's a home for abandoned sentences. Memory. Cropping up constantly in thoughts.
High praise.
Yeah, the genius is in the way it's put, though. What it's describing (whatever he meant it to mean) is the human mind. It's a home for abandoned sentences. Memory. Cropping up constantly in thoughts.
robgreen
no face
Thanks a lot Jessica, I'm really flattered by those compliments. Didn't you do the snipe hunt song a while back? That was weird and cool too. I see you've got a new song posted, I'll give that a listen when I have speakers later.
I think my worry about whether the song worked mainly related to the vocal arrangement and the lyrics. I was fairly confident in the instrumental mix, but didn't know if the vocals/lyrics were just too odd to appeal. Good to hear not.
You're absolutely right that bass drum is far too loud, it's eating up all my headroom! I've not updated the initial mix yet as I've realised that all my mixes have the same problems, so I want to use this one as a learning experience to try and understand where I'm going wrong. All my mixes are a bit muddy in the low end and the kick is either inaudible or too dominant. Both issues are probably linked, but it's taking a bit of time to work out what to do better. I'll look at the vocal level on the update too, but I still want to keep some confusion in there I think. Re. the intro - I do like long intros that build for a bit, rather than just a mandatory couple of bars before the vocals come in.
Thanks a lot for posting the issues you hear and the encouragement
Yeah, this is kind of it - it's broadly about internalising.
I read an interview with Helena Bonham Carter a while ago and she talked about how she used to call Tim Burton “a home for abandoned sentences” because he generally preferred not to speak, and when he did, he’d trail off mid-sentence. I thought was a great phrase and the description resonated with me too. I don't really like to talk too much either and when you want to be on your own, it can be really hard to get away from everyone and everything for a while – phones, text messages, emails etc. They all place demands on you for instant responses. I don’t always want to answer the phone just because I hear it ringing or respond immediately to a text message. People seem to really resist this though and if they can’t get hold of you within like an hour they initially become convinced that you’ve had an accident somewhere and then all pissy that you chose not to speak to them. Like they have a right to interrupt you whenever they want unless you can prove you have a valid reason not to answer the phone/door/whatever at any given moment. It can become a bit of a battle.
It also got me thinking about how this modern obsession with sharing every living thought no matter how banal or ill-considered, and the lost art of keeping your own counsel. I kind of resent that perceived need to instantly document every thought, experience or emotion on social media or whatever, and indeed to have a defined opinion on every topic as if these are requirements to validate our lives. My wife told me recently about some friend of hers on facebook who updated his page constantly throughout his exotic honeymoon!? How crazy is that? All this stuff seems to be exacerbated by the development of rolling news culture too which constantly updates and instantly analyses everything at the point of occurrence…it kind of erodes attention spans and considered responses to events. I don’t really like being expected to have views on things immediately, or find much interest in those who always do. I’d rather keep some thoughts to myself and work out what I think about something before expressing them.
So yeah, in short it’s self-justification for why I’m a bit anti-social...and the above is a longwinded explanation of why I don't always say much...
T
Trax.Io
New member
I agree with Greg L. Good for starts but lacks initative.
robgreen
no face
Hi trax, I'm not sure I really understand your comment to be honest - the mix (and I) may well have a number of shortcomings, but I'm not convinced that a lack of initiative is one of them.
I've a hunch that this may have been one of your ten needed to post a link, but thankyou and apologies if you did listen/meant the above sincerely.
G
Greg_L
Banned
I didn't say that, so you don't agree with me
R
RAMI
Guest
I like the vibe. But I can't make out a word you're saying. I'd either make the vocals more clear or maybe just louder. I did read a couple of comments from about a week ago saying they were too loud, so you might have adjusted them and brought them down? Maybe too much? This is a cool song, though.
I personally would have not changed the drum beat in the first few bars. I would have either stayed with the straight beat you started with, or started with the beat you change it to. That's just me, it certainly doesn't ruin the song or anything, I just don't see a reason for it. I think the straight beat you started with suits the song better.
Love the intro.
I personally would have not changed the drum beat in the first few bars. I would have either stayed with the straight beat you started with, or started with the beat you change it to. That's just me, it certainly doesn't ruin the song or anything, I just don't see a reason for it. I think the straight beat you started with suits the song better.
Love the intro.
Tadpui
Well-known member
Finally having a listen on better speakers. It doesn't sound as scooped on these punishing monitors, though there is still a bit of a haze over the rhythm section. The kick is still quite a bit louder than the bass, and I still can't quite make out what the bass guitar is doing.
The high end on the vocals and guitars sound nice, present but not earspikes...just right to me for this.
I like the ambience and the things that you have going on a couple of steps back from the listener.
I had this song stuck in my head yesterday, so it's good to come back and listen again. All in all, I say nice job.
The high end on the vocals and guitars sound nice, present but not earspikes...just right to me for this.
I like the ambience and the things that you have going on a couple of steps back from the listener.
I had this song stuck in my head yesterday, so it's good to come back and listen again. All in all, I say nice job.
robgreen
no face
I like the vibe. But I can't make out a word you're saying. I'd either make the vocals more clear or maybe just louder. I did read a couple of comments from about a week ago saying they were too loud, so you might have adjusted them and brought them down? Maybe too much? This is a cool song, though.
I personally would have not changed the drum beat in the first few bars. I would have either stayed with the straight beat you started with, or started with the beat you change it to. That's just me, it certainly doesn't ruin the song or anything, I just don't see a reason for it. I think the straight beat you started with suits the song better.
Love the intro.
Hey, thanks a lot for listening and sharing your thoughts Rami. I haven't changed anything from the original mix as of yet - there's been quite a few differing opinions on elements of this mix from folks, so I think factoring in the comments on the remix is going to come down to personal taste to a large extent (other than sorting out low end mud).
I'm not far off being done with an update, but I'll play around with the drum beat and see how it sits with either the first or the second pattern throughout. I quite like how it slow builds a little on the toms before opening up with the snare, but I'll give it a go. Thanks a lot for your time man and I'm glad you thought it was cool
Ace, thanks a lot for coming back in and checking it out on your other system tadpui. After I'd replied to your last post I thought that the V cut in eq that you mentioned might be down to the lack of stuff beyond around 2 kHz and because your system didn't have a particularly good high freq range, you were only noticing the absence of stuff in the mids.
You're dead right about the haze - there's currently far too much going on in the sub 100Hz range that's masking the clarity of what should be there and swallowing up my headroom. I'm onto that
I'm glad I'm not the only one with this damn melody going round and round my head - thanks for the compliments
R
RAMI
Guest
Yeah, that's often the case. Many times, directly opposite and conflicting suggestions are made about the same mix. Like you said, you have to take everything with a grain of salt and make the final decision yourself. You have to live with it forever, not anyone else.
(Whenever I'm getting too much conflicting info, I go with what Greg said 
)Just to be clear, I like the change from the toms to the snare to open it up. But the beat itself changed from a straight bass drum to a more syncopated bass drum. I felt the song should have stayed with the straight bass drum. But again, it's all about what you envision.
robgreen
no face
Yeah, that's often the case. Many times, directly opposite and conflicting suggestions are made about the same mix. Like you said, you have to take everything with a grain of salt and make the final decision yourself. You have to live with it forever, not anyone else.
Yeah, that's some sage advice. I'm just not used to conflicting advice - I've usually messed up something so glaring that everyone's recommendations are reconcilable
Just to be clear, I like the change from the toms to the snare to open it up. But the beat itself changed from a straight bass drum to a more syncopated bass drum. I felt the song should have stayed with the straight bass drum. But again, it's all about what you envision.
Ah, gotcha. I'd completely misread what you meant originally. Got it now and it makes perfect sense. Thanks for that dude
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robgreen
no face
Right, finally got a new mix done. I revisited pretty much every track to the point of madness and it's been a useful learning experience I think - understanding a bit more about the frequencies that will soak up all the headroom and getting a bit of a better balance.
I think the sound is now much fuller than the first mix - should be less mud in the low and lower mid frequencies and more presence/air. Still far from perfect, but probably now at the limit of my current abilities and patience. If anyone's willing to come back in, it'd be good to know whether others hear any improvement before I put this to bed.
New mix is on the original post and here:
...and for reference, the first mix from a few weeks back:
[MP3]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69835769/The%20Home%20For%20Abandoned%20Sentences%2020140525.mp3[/MP3]
Thanks
I think the sound is now much fuller than the first mix - should be less mud in the low and lower mid frequencies and more presence/air. Still far from perfect, but probably now at the limit of my current abilities and patience. If anyone's willing to come back in, it'd be good to know whether others hear any improvement before I put this to bed.
New mix is on the original post and here:
...and for reference, the first mix from a few weeks back:
[MP3]https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/69835769/The%20Home%20For%20Abandoned%20Sentences%2020140525.mp3[/MP3]
Thanks
heatmiser
mr. green christmas
Hey rob - I listened to the newest mix on an iphone yesterday and it actually sounded great, but I figured sounding great through those time 1cm speakers maybe didn't mean much. Today I'm listening on a laptop, so probably not much more accurate or anything, but it still sounds great. Definitely more air and presence as you say. I felt the kick was a bit too strong on the original, but now is seems to have gone away? Again, I'm listening on tiny speakers and will try to check back once I have access to my normal set-up.
So far though, it sounds to me like the mix overall has better separation and a more defined high end to it. Not muddy at all. I listened to the original mix on this lappy too just for comparison and the kick and bass were still really strong (even through these little speakers) compared to the newest mix.
I hope others check it out on something better, and I will try again later, but I think you might be on to something here with this sound.
So far though, it sounds to me like the mix overall has better separation and a more defined high end to it. Not muddy at all. I listened to the original mix on this lappy too just for comparison and the kick and bass were still really strong (even through these little speakers) compared to the newest mix.
I hope others check it out on something better, and I will try again later, but I think you might be on to something here with this sound.
C
Crazy Luke
New member
Good song - just a bit of timing issues need to be cleaned up. I agree with an above poster, that this would be a great tune to set the mood to a movie scene.
Tadpui
Well-known member
Wow, this is definitely an improvement. Much more lively mix to my ears. There's a lot more activity in those mid frequencies so it doesn't sound so scooped to me any more. The whole song sounds more present. Nice job man!
robgreen
no face
That's great to hear - thanks Heat. I read up on a bunch of stuff that I felt my knowledge was lacking in and then really pulled everything apart for the update and started again. I spent a fair bit of time using spectrum analysers and looking at the waveforms with and without certain tracks in the mix to try and understand better what was contributing where and what was hogging the headroom. I also A/Bd the frequency spread and how how the waveforms looked on songs by other folks to try and get to grips with what made up a good balance.
Like for example, on the original mix I took out the bass and kick, ran a mix down and there was still tons of activity going on under 100Hz. The kick was way higher than everything else, probably because it was the only way to battle through all the other crap going on down there. I did a fair bit of work there to free up some space, but maybe the bass is still masking the kick a little. It's still taking up a lot of headroom, but I know what you mean about it not coming through too much.
It felt like a bit of a dry academic task, but I think I learned a fair bit from it that will hopefully set me up well for future mixes. I'm glad the changes came through as an improvement for you. Thanks for listening in again Pete
robgreen
no face
Thanks a lot for listening Luke, I'm glad the song worked for you. I'll try and listen for the timing issues you mention - after listening to the song 1,000 times though, your ears get locked in to that rhythm - no matter how out of whack it may be - and it gets hard to detect such things. There's quite a lot of delay on various elements throughout, so I wonder if something there somewhere is a little out.
As for a movie scene, I'm open to offers if any film producers are reading. I draw the line at Michael Mann though - I got some standards...
Ace, thanks for coming in again Tadpui - you've been really helpful in getting this one right. I didn't quite understand your first post in the thread immediately and it was only really when I started re-visiting the mix that it struck me what you were (quite validly) getting at. I think there's something wrong with my ears/brain that I don't hear overwhelming low ends/underwhelming high ends in my stuff until other people point it out to me.
Hopefully I've learned a bit from all the processes I went through on the update. I'm heartily sick of the song now for the time being, but it felt useful picking it apart in the way I did and I think it's made it the best 'quality' mix I've done to date. Thanks a lot man
Mr Clean
AKA Teddy Wong
This sounds much, much better than I remember it. I didn't refresh my memory by listening to the old mix but this one sounds great to me. Everything has a place and it's own space. Very nice.
I remember thinking the vocal effect was slightly odd when I first heard it but I think it works well in this track. I'm a fan of all things different and strange anyway. Much better than plain and boring.
I really dig it. Good job Rob.
It reminds me of something else but I can't think what. The Specials - International Jet Set maybe? Something like that.
I remember thinking the vocal effect was slightly odd when I first heard it but I think it works well in this track. I'm a fan of all things different and strange anyway. Much better than plain and boring.
I really dig it. Good job Rob.
It reminds me of something else but I can't think what. The Specials - International Jet Set maybe? Something like that.
rayc
retroreprobate
Tres bon Rob!
robgreen
no face
This sounds much, much better than I remember it. I didn't refresh my memory by listening to the old mix but this one sounds great to me. Everything has a place and it's own space. Very nice.
I remember thinking the vocal effect was slightly odd when I first heard it but I think it works well in this track. I'm a fan of all things different and strange anyway. Much better than plain and boring.
I really dig it. Good job Rob.
It reminds me of something else but I can't think what. The Specials - International Jet Set maybe? Something like that.
Ace, thanks fellas.
Yeah, the old mix is just there for comparison - hearing the first one back now, I think you were all very kind to me first time around
The vocals are pretty odd - there's a fair bit less processing on them second time around. I struggled to find an arrangement that worked. They were initially just low and growly - I wanted a bit of a garage sound - but that just didn't work for some reason. Then I tried the higher register - and that didn't quite sit either - so I tried something a little less growly combined with a higher harmony take - and it does kinda work I think. I'm a fan of the odd too - I've not got the chops for straight singer-songwriter stuff and I'd rather push for something unusual anyway.
I don't know that Specials tune you mention, but I'll look it up - I think my last one had a bit of a Specials feel to it too that you picked up on. Cheers
dobro
Well-known member
Yeah, way better. I like just about everything here more than the first mix. Two thoughts: Since you're in the business of adding presence to things, how about that reed-like instrument over on the left that comes in after the intro piano? Can you add just a bit of distortion to it or something so it's just a taste more noticeable? Also, maybe you overcooked the upper end on the vocals just a little bit. Sounds like the Aphex exciter was on 5 when 4 would have done it. Whatcha think? Or are you sick of tweaks? lol