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wavewarrior
New member
Sounds badd azz to me.
Reminds me of the stuff tracked in "MorrisSound" recording studio.
Morrisound Recording
Sounds badd azz to me.
Reminds me of the stuff tracked in "MorrisSound" recording studio.
Morrisound Recording
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Greg_L
Banned
Sounds awesome!
2204 update:
I used my freshened up 2204 at band practice last nite for it's last big test and it passed with flying colors. It was actually quite amazing to me. The raw growl with note definition and punch in the mids.....just outstanding.
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jonny deep
Disappointing Member
And a JCM1 Update - I got some time to play around on it at the weekend. Unfortunately, there seems to be a fault with it. At lower gain (around 2-4), I get a sort of crackling sound and the distortion seems to futz out. I don't get it at higher gains (say, 5+) and you can hear the distortion tones holding that are otherwise crapping out at the lower setting.
I called the shop today and described it to one of their guitar guys and they're picking it up for a warranty repair. Hopefully, they can sort it out. I'm kind of gassing for a Mesa TA-15 now - I've had an offer of a pretty good price (for the UK) from one of the shops I use!
minerman
Tonetard
Thanks for the listen & comments guys, I'm re-recording the guitars as I type (re-amping the di's....I always track the di's just for this purpose...) with the C1 condensor...so we'll see how it turns out....Thanks again...
Greg: Cool man, glad it's working out for ya, I miss the days of playing in bands in a way, but there's no way I could do that now with the shift I work....
Jonny: Do you have any spare tubes to try in the amp dude??? Might just have a bad tube & might save you some time, trouble, & possibly $$$....Just a thought....Keep us informed...
Greg: Cool man, glad it's working out for ya, I miss the days of playing in bands in a way, but there's no way I could do that now with the shift I work....
Jonny: Do you have any spare tubes to try in the amp dude??? Might just have a bad tube & might save you some time, trouble, & possibly $$$....Just a thought....Keep us informed...
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jonny deep
Disappointing Member
Hey Miner. No, I don't have any around and as it was an ex-demo unit, I did think it might be the tubes. The guy in the shop seemed to think it was a fault and as it's within 28 days it won't cost me anything for them to collect it and look at it and check it out. If they come back and say it's just the tubes, I'll tell them to put some in and send it back for my approval. If I still don't like the sound I'll get a refund. As it is, I think they'll check it out and send it to Marshall for repair.
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Greg_L
Banned
Before you send it in, pop the back panel off, turn the amp on to play, and lightly flick the tubes with your finger. The amp should stay silent. If you hear any ringing, pinging, crackling, or anything when you flick the tubes, that tube is bad. Replace it yourself and save some time and hassle. Preamp tubes are cheap. Your preamp tubes will be ECC83/12ax7 and your one output tube is an ECC82/12au7.
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Greg_L
Banned
It's not that great. It's a double-edged sword to me. I love playing music. I love jamming my shit. I like being creative and being part of a band. I hate playing gigs. I pretty much hate them all. I'd be perfectly happy just jamming in garages for the rest of my life. No one else feels that way though. Everyone wants to play fucking gigs all the time like they're some kind of fucking rock star. Most people get their kicks being on a stage and get really excited for the next gig. Not me. I like everything but the gigs. So I have to just accept that if I want to play in bands, I'm gonna have to do some gigs here and there.
minerman
Tonetard
Ok, here's some more fucking around this morning, outta time again, so I'll post the amp settings & shit when I get in tonight....
LDO 3-10-2014
LDO 3-10-2014
Lt. Bob
Spread the Daf!
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Greg_L
Banned
you sir, are a mysterious conundrum with ways not of this world.
Haha, I know, totally. That's why I don't make a big stink about it. I know I'm way outside the norm. I can't expect 99.9% of the music playing world to conform to me, so I just roll with it. My bandmates know that I hate gigs, but they know I never have and never will let them down, so it's all good. It's always the same though..."Hey Greg, you excited about our XXXX gig this saturday? Me: "Fuck no".
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jonny deep
Disappointing Member
Hey - thanks for the tips. I gave that a try and they all seem solid.
I made a recording of what I'm hearing. It's just me playing and open A chord repeatedly and turning the gain up. It's all my Les Paul Trad. bridge pickup into the JCM1H with eq's all on 5, boost switch off and master on 10. The preamp gain starts on 2.5; then at ~23s I bump the gain to 3; then at ~39s it's up to 4; at 51s it's up to 6; and at ~64s it's up to 8.
You can hear on the lower gains the distortion freq's swelling and dropping, but they sort of futz out. At the higher gains, they hold and swell back again. Is this something I should just expect from low watt amps or from tube amps in general. I kind of expect a smoother tone if I hold a chord - if I used this to record a held chord, I don't think it would sound great, but maybe I'm nit-picking - it's just not what I expect for the money. I dunno, I haven't used tube amps a great deal - maybe you guys can help me manage my expectations. I'm sure I tried higher watt amps in the shop and not had this characteristic in the sound. When I had a similar problem with my Vox Nightrain 15W, I tried the 50W version and it didn't really do this, but I can't really run a 50W amp in my current situation.
Anyway, if you have a minute to spare, have a listen and let me know what you think. Thanks in advance!
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Greg_L
Banned
If I'm understand you correctly, what you're describing and what I'm hearing seems perfectly normal. That initial crunch, what you're calling distortion frequencies, happens when the tube overdrives. That first hit sends a strong signal to the amp which crunches the tube, and as the strings ring out and the output from the pickups drop, the tube isn't driven as hard and the sound cleans up a little. The crunch lasts longer as the gain goes up because the tube is being driven even harder, but it still fades away as the strings ring out. Turn your gain way up but pick very lightly, or roll the vol way back on the guitar. You should hear a cleanish sound without much crunch because even though the gain is up, you're not slamming the tubes with signal. Then when you give it all you got again, the tube melts down and gets crunchy. Perfectly normal. You're also using an amp model known for it's ballsy crunch. And you're using a humbucking guitar sending a pretty hot signal. Humbuckers and Les Pauls aren't known for their clean sound and clarity. I'd say that's a pretty normal characteristic of any tube amp designed to get nasty - even in a 1w variety. And being only one watt, you're gonna get those tubes sweating way sooner than a bigger amp that has tons of headroom. Welcome to tube amps. 
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jonny deep
Disappointing Member
Lol, thanks man. On hearing it, it just seems the sine wave of the distortion is way too wide and it drops out completely on the lower gain setting and it feels like it craps out rather than maintaining the distorted sound like it should. I guess I'm just not experienced with these amps! The JVM is similar, but the distortion maintains better and doesn't really crap out, although even with the gain on around 0.1, it's the same gain-wise as the JCM on around a 5!
There is quite a difference in the sound between the two - the JCM feels like a more open sound, the JVM feels more eq'd, if you know what I mean. If I knew how, I wonder if I could make them sound the same.
There is quite a difference in the sound between the two - the JCM feels like a more open sound, the JVM feels more eq'd, if you know what I mean. If I knew how, I wonder if I could make them sound the same.
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Greg_L
Banned
The JCM 800 was never a high gain amp. It was a moderate gain amp that thrived on crunch, a big open sound due it's low negative feedback in the power section, and massive earth shaking volume. All those 80s hair bands that got high gain out the 800 used overdrive pedals. The JVM is an extreme gain amp that gets most of it's gusto from the preamp section. Even though the JVM is based on the circuit design of the original JCM 800, they're totally different animals.
I have the big versions of both amps. My JMP 2204 is functionally the exact same amp as an early 80s 50w JCM 800. My JVM 410 is the big daddy JVM. My JVM passes up the gain of the 2204 before I've even gone halfway through it's channels and modes. So yeah, if Marshall did their homework, I can totally see the little JVM having way more gain than the JCM-1. The JVM is designed to be a much more preamp driven, modern gain kind of sound. The JCM-1, if it's anything like it's grandaddy, is gonna be a more classic crunch kind of sound. Your clip sounded pretty dang JCM800-ish to me. That's pretty much what they sound like. Crunchy. They're not smooth and refined like the JVM.
For me, I like the 800 sound, and when I use my JVM, I don't even go anywhere near the gain it's capable of. I get a very convincing 800 sound from the Crunch channel. There's still two channels and 6 or 7 modes of higher gain beyond that!
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jonny deep
Disappointing Member
I think I'll cancel the pick up tomorrow. I've just been jamming a bit and it sounds totally awesome. I like it best with the gain around 4ish. I think a little lower for recording double-tracked rhythms will sound sweet. I haven't even played with the eq or boost switch yet, but I'm so happy with the tone. The only problem was with the sound futzing out like it does on a held chord, but if a smooth exit isn't what this amp does, then so be it!
I toyed a little with the mic position on the Greenback before recording that clip. I think it sounds pretty good - any thoughts as to that - is it a little fizzy? Maybe there's not enough to go on there, but I have to go make dinner for my better half, so no time to record anything else right now. I'll try and do some more tomorrow or the day after.
Thanks again, Greg. I feel much better about the amp now I know what to expect.
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Greg_L
Banned
Haha yeah there's nothing smooth about a JCM 800. I was gonna say your sound with the gain around 4 and 6 was pretty bad ass. Great rock and roll or punk sound. Yeah your mic position might be a little fizzy, but like you said it's hard to go on just from that. I'd leave it alone and do some simple test tracks with some drums and bass. Greenbacks do have the potential to be fizzy and crunchy with the mic in the wrong spot. That's probably not the absolute best speaker to be paired with an 800 type sound, but it'll work great with more mic position experimentation. I like the hell out of my Greenbacks and I go for 800-style sounds all the time. You just gotta find that sweet spot. Lately I've been liking mine with the mic a few inches off the grill and about halfway across the cone. I don't know about the JCM-1, but the real 800s are naturally pretty bright amps. So dialing the highs back or using a "darker" mic position might be the way to go.
If you wanna hear some all-natural 800s in punk rock action, listen to any later Ramones stuff, The Queers, Toy Dolls, Teenage Bottlerocket, The Lillingtons, The Huntingtons, Screeching Weasel, Bad Religion, etc. They were all big time JCM 800 users.
And of course a lot of the hair glam 80s bands used 800s with the help of some pedals.
If you wanna hear some all-natural 800s in punk rock action, listen to any later Ramones stuff, The Queers, Toy Dolls, Teenage Bottlerocket, The Lillingtons, The Huntingtons, Screeching Weasel, Bad Religion, etc. They were all big time JCM 800 users.
And of course a lot of the hair glam 80s bands used 800s with the help of some pedals.
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jonny deep
Disappointing Member
I think my current mic position is halfway across the cone and an inch or so off the grill. It's in the iso-box, which has a heavy lid, so it's a right pain in the arse to adjust it! Still, it means I can play at full volume (at 1W!) when the baby's asleep upstairs.
My other half has been delayed. Here's a quick go at AC/DC, very badly played
: -
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Greg_L
Banned
Haha, not too bad. A little boxy but pretty good. It definitely has that Marshally style in the sound. I like it.I think my current mic position is halfway across the cone and an inch or so off the grill. It's in the iso-box, which has a heavy lid, so it's a right pain in the arse to adjust it! Still, it means I can play at full volume (at 1W!) when the baby's asleep upstairs.
My other half has been delayed. Here's a quick go at AC/DC, very badly played
Go up a few posts and listen to the crappy AC/DC riff I did with my 2204. I just listened to it and it has that same initial crunch to fade out that you talked about earlier. You can hear it better in the intro light picking part. It has a quick bite and then settles down a bit. Totally normal.
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Greg_L
Banned
Damn sorry minerman, I blew right by this with all the JCM-1 talk.
I think this is much better. The guitars sound fuller. I think you might have just a hair too much muck in the guitar's low end now though. If you used that rear speaker mic, maybe drop it down some, or I think these tracks could be a good candidate for some light shelving. No roll offs, just a shelf. Set up an EQ shelf on the low end that stops at like 200hz or so and drop that shelf maybe like a db or two. You'll preserve your low end frequencies, it'll just be tamed a little. See how that sounds.