Total recording newb, am I on the right track?

[squarepusher]

Hello all. I am excited to have found this forum!!!

I have been playing music on guitar, piano, and bass for years now and have a lot of formal training on my instruments, and now I've finally decided to take it to the next level and record. I am mainly interested in making electronic music incorporating the instruments I play.

I've already got a laptop (win 7 64 bit, core i5, 6 gb ram) for my home studio setup, as well as some Sennheiser HD-280 headphones for mixing/mastering.

What I still need includes:
Saffire 6 USB interface (this seems to be the best one in my price range)
FL Studio 10 (I really like the interface; if someone thinks there's a better program for the money that can't just be achieved with third party VSTs, feel free to tell me so)
And perhaps studio monitors... I'm not sure if I'll have any leftover cash for these >_<. If I do, it would not be a terrible amount (probably $150 USD for a pair)

How am I doing so far? I'm trying to get things right the first run around.

 

[Massive Master]

And perhaps studio monitors... I'm not sure if I'll have any leftover cash for these >_<. If I do, it would not be a terrible amount (probably $150 USD for a pair)

This is *by far* the most important piece in any recording chain. Far and away, by a longshot, the pinnacle, the zenith, the cornerstone, there will never be anything even close to the importance of your monitoring chain. Cut corners ANYWHERE but there.

Every single sonic decision you ever make will be based on your monitoring chain.

Mixing with headphones doesn't work in the real world. I won't even get into mastering in headphones...

And it's not worth it to "get the cheapest" (not with monitoring, anyway). Save up and get the best you possibly can. And put it at the *top* of your priority list.

Personally, I think you'd be best off taking all the $$$ you have put aside and dumping it all into monitoring, learning those monitor and developing your listening skills while saving up for the other stuff. You'd be so far ahead of the game if you go that route...

 

[Bobbsy]

Microphone?

You don't mention if your piano, guitar and bass are electric/electronic or not but, if even one of them is acoustic, you'll need a mic or two.

Even if all of them are electric/electronic, there's a school of thought (that I agree with) that it's best to mic the amp for an electric guitar rather than use amp simulators. Your choice, but think about it.

Saffire make decent interfaces so that should be okay.

I don't know FL studio software but somebody will be along in a few minutes to tell you to download and try Reaper. They'll be right...do as many free trials as you can to get a feel for what's out there.

...and Massive Master is right about the monitor speakers. Mixing with headphones will start to frustrate you very quickly when your "perfect mix" sounds totally different on your home hifi and the car stereo.

Most of all, have fun...and put as much effort into learning about recording as you did learning your instruments. It'll pay dividends!

 

[squarepusher]

Oh god it is as I had expected. Well, it doesn't help that I'm basically gonna be broke after the acquisition of the interface/DAW...

So what kind of monitors would be recommended to a person on a budget (without a huge sacrifice in quality)?

Also, as far as microphones go, it's not a huge priority now. I have a direct line out on my amp so I won't have to use a virtual amp simulator. And as far as recording acoustic... I'm not gonna worry about that for now hahaha

And I already have a book on learning about recording, mastering, listening skills, etc... Its helping a lot so far.

 

[Massive Master]

I'm not the person to ask on what's decent in the budget-friendly range these days. I can tell you a whole bunch of monitors in the "under $1k" range that I'd like to throw into a tire fire (almost all of them), but I can't tell you which ones are truly "better" (as I generally don't like any of them in the first place). I know a lot of people who use the KRK Rock-IT's and Yamaha HS80's...

The ADAM A7's are nice -- Personally can't use 'em due to the ribbon tweeters (I'm hyper-sensitive in the high end) but at first listen, I liked them quite a bit. Any of the Dynaudio boxes are pretty nice...

I'd probably scour the used market. If you can score a set of B&W DM602's (series 3, specifically) and a decent amp (DECENT - Doesn't have to be A-A/B, but it has to be "capable"), that'll pretty much blow away anything you're going to find in the sub-$1k market with great vengeance and furious anger. There was something wonderful about that speaker... One of the best "cheap" speakers ever. And then they discontinued it for an overhyped box of questionableness.

 

[mjbphotos]

You didn't mention which Fruity Loops you were planning on - unless it is the Express version, you can save a few $$ by trying out (and paying for, if you decide on it) Reaper, which is only $60 (full version is free to try out).
Others have already told you that monitors are essential, but you do not need to go broke on your first set. You will eventually want to move up to better ones, but you need something besides headphones to mix.

 

[kidkage]

On ebay you can probably find a brand new set of krk rokit 6's for $300.
They're front ported which is a good thing for project studios.
When I did my research the rokit series seemed to be the best reviewed pair I could find.

Then I came here. And there was this one guy that said they are horrible.


Arcadeko saved the day though. I bought them. And really enjoy them.

EDIT: Oh, forgot to mention the Tascam US800 interface. It's 100 at the moment, and comes with Cubase LE5.

 

[Bobbsy]

I'd probably scour the used market. If you can score a set of B&W DM602's (series 3, specifically) and a decent amp (DECENT - Doesn't have to be A-A/B, but it has to be "capable"), that'll pretty much blow away anything you're going to find in the sub-$1k market with great vengeance and furious anger. There was something wonderful about that speaker... One of the best "cheap" speakers ever. And then they discontinued it for an overhyped box of questionableness.

+1 for this.

However, I'd add that most "audiophile" level domestic speakers you find second hand would likely do better than most cheapie "monitors". By "audiophile" I don't mean Japanese speakers that come in a package with an amp and CD player--but things like KEF, Rogers, some Celestions, etc. are generally darn good and nicely accurate/neutral.

 

[Armistice]

Do you have a spare kidney you could sell? You could get a nice set of monitors for a kidney... and really, who needs two?

Seriously, whilst you don't need to start with a top pair, I'd avoid the extreme cheap end of the scale too.

Hit on the parents for cash at Christmas...

 

[Massive Master]

+1 for this.

However, I'd add that most "audiophile" level domestic speakers you find second hand would likely do better than most cheapie "monitors". By "audiophile" I don't mean Japanese speakers that come in a package with an amp and CD player--but things like KEF, Rogers, some Celestions, etc. are generally darn good and nicely accurate/neutral.

S'actly what I'm talking about. The whole "STUDIO MONITOR" buzzword is relatively new. And while some exceptionally well-made near-field, narrow dispersion, limited range speakers that have a "STUDIO MONITOR" sticker on them might have a slight advantage in a crappy room, how many people actually listen - purposefully - on limited-range, narrow dispersion, short-throw speakers and actually expect a reasonable amount of accuracy?

It's a rhetorical question... No one does.

Contrast that with the average B&W / KEF / Celestion / NHT / Tyler Acoustics / PSB purchaser that's actually looking for standard throw, normal dispersion speakers with the widest range possible with the flattest response along the curve at varying SPLs ---

I'm not trying to sound like they're all "guilty" -- Some companies (Genelec, ADAM, Dynaudio, Focal, Barefoot and such) do their best to create a reasonably accurate and consistent box that works well in the near-field and charge according to what the box costs to build & market. Many others say "we want to build a $400 pair of speakers" and work backwards from there. Cheesy components, crappy crossovers, terrible amplifiers (in the case of active units), lousy drivers (etc.) that might read "pretty flat" at a particular SPL with pink noise in an anechoic chamber -- But for some reason, when you actually play something like "music" through them, suddenly they're not so accurate and consistent anymore.

After all -- If they were, there would only be one model out there. Or at least, they'd all sound the same.

 

[saads]

Then I came here. And there was this one guy that said they are horrible.

I have a feeling that was probably me
I'm ok with the 8 inch ones, and don't remember if I've heard the 6s. It's the 5s that I don't like, at all.

 

[grimtraveller]

I have a feeling that was probably me
I'm ok with the 8 inch ones, and don't remember if I've heard the 6s. It's the 5s that I don't like, at all.

I don't think it was you. I think it was an Englishman called Rodd and his opinion led to a spririted debate that became 'a classic of the genre'.
I tend to think that if you're new to recording and you really don't have much 'dukla prague' {££$$s}, what you want to do is just record. While in spirit I'm in agreement with Massive and his thoughts on the matter are crucial in the bigger, long term picture {and I note he's upped his game here >

Far and away, by a longshot, the pinnacle, the zenith, the cornerstone, there will never be anything even close to the importance of

}, in reality waiting until you can afford something that might take you a year or two to save for just doesn't happen most of the time and you're not actually going to be learning anything or recording during the hiatus. Perhaps I'm totally wrong on this, but I think you're better off getting some 'budget' monitors and learning about recording by doing. Write songs. Arrange them. Record them . Mix them. Test them out. The important thing to remember is that recording, mixing and mastering {should you actually do it} are all progressive crafts. That is to say, you do not become an expert overnight. You may never. So you need to start somewhere. As you go on, you'll discover other mics, monitors, instrument cables, recorders, whatever. And try them out. A limited number of things you'll buy now and stick with forever. But most things you'll possibly change or at least add to. It's the nature of recording so having monitors that do for you now, but four years from now are no longer adequate is nothing unusual. Whatever you get, you're going to have to learn them and how to get what you mix on them to translate to other systems.
That's progression. But start somewhere.

 

[Bobbsy]

Completely agree, grimtraveller.

We often focus too much on the technology at the expense of skill and experience. The only way to gain that is by doing--even if you don't have the ideal microphone, monitors or recording space, it's still worth diving in at the deep end to record and mix things. Every mix you make (and every mistake you make) will teach you something new.

...and, as your skill and your "ear" develops it'll help you decide what your priorities are for the next expenditure.

Even mixing with headphones isn't a lost cause--just expect your mixes to sound very different when you play your tracks on other systems. Even so, it's entirely possible to gradually learn what things need to sound like on your 'phones to sound right elsewhere. Even with the best monitors you need to go through this learning curve--it's just easier.

 

[mjbphotos]

What grim and Bobbsy said above is waht I was getting at on page 1. Saying that you have to go for massively expensive monitors to start out is like telling someone who wants to learn to play guitar not to bother with a $150 Guitar center special, but to wait until they can afford a Martin or a Taylor. It doesn't matter how expensive the gear is - if you don't know how to use it, it won't matter.

 

[Massive Master]

I don't want to sound like I'm saying to go radically pricey (although you'll never hear me argue against it) -- I'm suggesting to avoid something I've seen far too many times. A lot of people (not everyone, but certainly "so damn many") start out on the mechanics of recording using "cheesy" speakers and spend years learning bad habits and not developing their listening skills -- Skills which dictate every single decision in the long run.

Interesting analogies though -- My first guitar was a POS that made my fingers bleed. I can only imagine how much faster I'd have progressed with a better instrument.

One of my early cameras I bought with a "budget" lens -- And my progress as a photographer was terribly stunted because of it. My photos were "okay" but lacked that "3D" clarity and focus. The bokeh was "ok" (heh...) but the finer points of photography were basically un-learnable until a friend loaned me a lens with Zeiss glass in it. And like an engineer will only ever hear as well as his monitors allow, a camera is only as good as it's glass will allow it to be. I started from "square one" again in depth-of-field, where it would've been "old hat" if I'd started with a better lens (at the time, that "budget" lens only saved me about $100 - the amount of money I spent on processing film trying to figure out why my photos weren't as "crisp" as I'd hoped probably ran me 10 times that).

Just as how my listening skills developed in leaps when I finally got around to using "real" speakers. Again, had to almost start over again (with over a decade of frustration behind me).

I would've been a much better engineer much sooner had I done what my mentor at the time suggested ("Get the best speakers you possibly can and don't worry about anything else - A monkey can learn the mechanics of recording but you can't learn to listen until you have speakers that are better than you are") or something dreadfully similar to that.

And if I could turn back the clock, I would've done just that.

 

[squarepusher]

I ended up going with Behringer Truth b1031as.

Mind you, I'm not recording a whole band - its just me and my guitar/synths/VSTs.

The reviews for these were really good and I found them on sale so i had to... I wish I had enough money for high end speakers but... college happened.


Well, feel free to tear me a new one for this move. (as i see that happening after reading this thread )

 

[moresound]

I ended up going with Behringer Truth b1031as.

Mind you, I'm not recording a whole band - its just me and my guitar/synths/VSTs.

The reviews for these were really good and I found them on sale so i had to... I wish I had enough money for high end speakers but... college happened.


Well, feel free to tear me a new one for this move. (as i see that happening after reading this thread )

Nah they are a good pair and you can always add a different pair down the road to be able to A/B a mix.

 

[squarepusher]

What exactly does it mean to A/B a mix?

 

[grimtraveller]

What exactly does it mean to A/B a mix?

To compare it with something close to hand {like on two different sets of speakers }.
###################################
I generally dig Massive's posts on this topic. It enables me to engage in the paradox of agreeing and disagreeing at the same time.

 

[kidkage]

https://homerecording.com/bbs/general-discussions/mixing-techniques/monitor-modeling-324436/
It was that Over Dose guy.

It doesn't matter how expensive the gear is - if you don't know how to use it, it won't matter.

I believe that starting out with a $50 pair of crappy ion desktop rockers and a $10 eBay acoustic really made me appreciate stepping up in quality.
Although I guess it is possible that those two things were just so horrible that they make anything else seem great
I dont know that in the beginning as a n00b I was prepared to use good monitors.
I had such a lack of recording knowledge in general that the recordings were going to be bad regardless of my monitors. Which probably would've made me unjustly hate my monitors.

I ended up going with Behringer Truth b1031as.

Mind you, I'm not recording a whole band - its just me and my guitar/synths/VSTs.

The reviews for these were really good and I found them on sale so i had to... I wish I had enough money for high end speakers but... college happened.


Well, feel free to tear me a new one for this move. (as i see that happening after reading this thread )

just kidding.

No, but really: Exactly what moresound said.

You'll soon enough find out that plenty of people around here have more than one set of monitors.

Personally, I'm definitely happy with my Rokits... but I'm totally stalking Adams A7x's