Signal chain question

[famous beagle]

Ok, so this may seem like a newbie question, but it's been something that's bugged me for a while.

Let's say you're recording a vocal with a condenser, and want to compress it a bit as you're going to the recorder. You're using an outboard mic pre and outboard compressor (they're separate pieces of gear).

What's the typical recording chain?

I always figured you'd go into the pre first, then out the pre into the compressor, then out the compressor into the mixer or recorder. Alternatively, you could go in the pre, out and into the mixer, then in and out of the comp through the insert, then into the recorder. As far as I can tell, that's basically the same thing.

However, in reading a book by Peter McIan, he says (when compressing a vocal to tape) to plug the mic directly into the compressor first, then go into the mixer. (In his example, there's not an external pre referenced; the mixer's pre is used.) This guy produced and engineered some big bands in the eighties, including Men At Work, so I'm assuming he knows what he's doing. But I've never tried it this way.

Is this the more common method for compressing to tape? Mic --> comp ---> pre ---> recorder?

And: If you do this---i.e., run in and out of the compressor before going to the pre (which is supplying phantom power)---will the condenser mic still work?

Thanks!

 

[miroslav]

However, in reading a book by Peter McIan, he says (when compressing a vocal to tape) to plug the mic directly into the compressor first, then go into the mixer. (In his example, there's not an external pre referenced; the mixer's pre is used.) This guy produced and engineered some big bands in the eighties, including Men At Work, so I'm assuming he knows what he's doing. But I've never tried it this way.

Is this the more common method for compressing to tape? Mic --> comp ---> pre ---> recorder?

I would like to see the text from the book and the context of why/how he says that...because it doesn't work...the comp has no preamp, it's a line-level device and a mic would barely be able to provide any signal.

 

[Massive Master]

A compressor is a line-level device. You need to feed it a line-level signal.

Mic - Pre - Compressor - Interface.

Although I'd take the compressor out of the chain for tracking... No advantages, too many disadvantages.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

Well, if your compressor is a UA LA610 or Drawmer 1960 then it's also a mic pre. Perhaps that's what he's talking about.

Otherwise you have to go into some sort of mic pre before the compressor if you want it to work properly.

 

[miroslav]

But the pre is still first even in those circuits....yes/no?

 

[famous beagle]

A compressor is a line-level device. You need to feed it a line-level signal.

Mic - Pre - Compressor - Interface.

Although I'd take the compressor out of the chain for tracking... No advantages, too many disadvantages.

Well ... what about if you're working with limited resources? I record to tape sometimes (on my own stuff when I'm not on the clock), and so I don't have unlimited resources "in the box."

 

[famous beagle]

I would like to see the text from the book and the context of why/how he says that...because it doesn't work...the comp has no preamp, it's a line-level device and a mic would barely be able to provide any signal.

I know the comp is not a preamp, but in his example you would be hitting a preamp before the recorder, by way of the mixer's pre. It's just that it would be after the compressor.

 

[bouldersoundguy]

I know the comp is not a preamp, but in his example you would be hitting a preamp before the recorder, by way of the mixer's pre. It's just that it would be after the compressor.

Then the comp won't work very well if it works at all, and he'll be amplifying a bunch of noise.

 

[famous beagle]

Actually, I was wrong, he specifically says in his book to plug the output of the compressor into the LINE IN of the console channel. (See attached page from book.)

So this would only work if, as boudlersoundguy was saying, it's a compressor/pre in one, correct? The weird thing is that the book is filled with talk about the limitations of the home recordist and how to get around those. It would be weird for him to overlook something as big as assuming that all (or most) home recordists would have such high-end compressors.

That seems very odd.

 

[robbieaz62]

I was able to get halfway decent signal through my compressor using a battery powered condensor mic (AKG C1000s). It seemed to function properly but I don't see how this would be better, or even remotely as good, as the 'normal' way.

 

[miroslav]

He's making an assumption about the mic/comp signal relationship.

Can you get enough signal by cranking the input gain on the comp....probably.
Do all comps have an input gain control and not just an output make-up....no.
Also...why run through an entire console and that longer/more complex signal path, just to use some EQ, unless you have no outboard EQ to use?

I never engineered any big bands and I have no book... ...but I would use the mic-pre route...and then if you need an EQ or comp in the chain...put it after the pre.
Also...he's got a comp going into an EQ...another bassakwards thing IMO.

 

[Washburn100]

That is just a poorly written page. Condenser mic needs phantom power and a preamp. He is probably talking about a preamp with compressor built in. Pretty confusing to a newbie. He should stick to studio work and forget about writing books.

 

[famous beagle]

That is just a poorly written page. Condenser mic needs phantom power and a preamp. He is probably talking about a preamp with compressor built in. Pretty confusing to a newbie. He should stick to studio work and forget about writing books.

Yeah, he really dropped the ball here. There is a lot of good info in the book, but there are times where, for whatever reason, he really misses the mark.

 

[TrustMeScience]

Yeah, this author left something out in his description, that's all.

I know of one new microphone that's capable of putting out line-level output given an ample signal (The Ronin Pegasus) but that's a very uncommon design.

In general the preamplifier stage built into microphones barely amplifies the signal at all. It's really there for impedance conversion. 99,999 times out of 100,000 you'll want to hit a preamp before a compressor.