modern tape machines?

  • Thread starter Thread starter mfdjuve
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VESSEL2020 said:
I've read somewhere John F. used a Tascam 488 on a bunch of his first solo efforts.:confused:
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He used a tascam 424 to record his first solo album 'niandra lades'. He used a 488 to record demos for the album 'shadows collide with people'. He later then posted them online.
 
mfdjuve said:
He used a tascam 424 to record his first solo album 'niandra lades'. He used a 488 to record demos for the album 'shadows collide with people'. He later then posted them online.
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I knew I read somethin' somewhere about him usin' a 488.
Do you have the link to where he posted them? I'd like to check that out.
I know he was goin' through a pretty ruff time "battling some demons" during that time as well.
 
Tim Gillett said:
But modern digital audio recording/ mixing/ mastering systems can have so many tools inside them that to access all those tools via knobs and switches would cost a fortune and would be probably physically very large as well.
You then also have potential reliability problems. Anyone working with audio electronics knows that often it is those very pots and switches that are the first items to fail or fall short of their original reliability.
I dont get off on "Mouse clicking, waveforms and screens" either but they are practical necessity unless you have unlimited budget and room, and if you want to make use of tools that a few decades ago only pro audio engineeers could afford.
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Again, we just disagree. You can get a functional 1/2" 8-track for a few hundred dollars. Same for a 1/4" 2-track machine plus a small mixer. An "unlimited budget and room" is not required. I'm not implying it's the only way or the best way for anyone else, but these notions that tape machines are always super-expensive or trouble-prone just aren't reality for many of us.

There is also an unappreciated economy in the efficiency of tape... the process forces focus on arrangement and performance and speeds up the recording and mixing process. Also, for many of us, there is an economy in getting the sound we want with a bare minimum of gear.

Cheers,

Otto
 
VESSEL2020 said:
I knew I read somethin' somewhere about him usin' a 488.
Do you have the link to where he posted them? I'd like to check that out.
I know he was goin' through a pretty ruff time "battling some demons" during that time as well.
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Just do a google search and you will find it, but really, it sounds pretty bad (although the songs and performances are great).
The released album was recorded on 2" 24 track tape running through a Neve desk. The drums were done through a Scully 8 track. Apparently, the album cost him over $100,000 to record.

Also check out Will to Death:

"...In 2004 Frusciante announced that he would produce six albums during a six month break from the Red Hot Chili Peppers, with The Will to Death being the first of these. Following the long and costly recording of his previous album, Shadows Collide With People, Frusciante decided to experiment with recording music quickly and in a minimalist fashion, performing a maximum of two takes per track.

Frusciante has stated that the album is intended to be "the opposite of Shadows Collide With People": "On The Will to Death, I thought it would be a good idea to make a record with very little backing vocals, because we'd done it so much on Shadows. I always have to have a new idea for each album. For The Will to Death, the idea was to have very little backing vocals. There's a lot of other huge differences. In every way, I wanted the opposite of Shadows..."

It was recorded on 2" 16 track (according to John 'as if it was 1971... no computers) as well and just sounds phenomenal and really raw.

In that same period he recorded an 'acoustic' album in his living room (although there are a few synths and overdubs) on an '1" 8 track Ampex from 1970' so I assume it's a 440-8?
 
Chilljam said:
In that same period he recorded an 'acoustic' album in his living room (although there are a few synths and overdubs) on an '1" 8 track Ampex from 1970' so I assume it's a 440-8?
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Most likely, but could also be an MM-1000-8, MM-1100-8 or MM-1200-8.
 
a bit off topic i know....

I plan to record to tape, mix down in to computer. I've been doing this with my 488.

problems I've had...

Latency! If I record each track separately into the computer, I have such a hard time, lining up the tracks to make timing like it should. Even if it's a mille second off, it can ruin a song. So to avoid this, I record all tracks at the same time, and end up having to perform 'live mixing'. Not convenient when using effects, especially as there are only 2 effect sends on the 488. Anyway to the point...to avoid having to dump tracks into the comp..I've been looking at 16 tracks (8 tracks aren't enough, and bouncing confuses me).

Is there any knowledge or technique I missing out on, regarding...mixing with effects....dumping tracks into comp? I'd prefer an 8 track recorder, they're much easier to find.

thank you
 
If we ignore 2", I believe these are all your options for 16-track machines:

1-inch
TASCAM MS-16, ATR60-16 (also older 1970s machines like the 90-16, 8516b)
Otari MX70 (also available in 1" 8-track format)
Soundcraft 760 was also available in this format
ITAM 1610 (Looks like a rebadged Soundcraft, rare and an unknown quantity)

In addition there are also 1" 24-track machines like the TASCAM MSR-24, and Fostex G24

1/2"
TASCAM MSR-16
Fostex B16, E16, G16

Realistically, you'd probably be looking at an E16 if your budget is about £350. Be wary about the state of the heads, though - they're very difficult to come by. There is one on ebay at the moment, actually.
 
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jpmorris said:
If we ignore 2", I believe these are all your options for 16-track machines:

1-inch
TASCAM MS-16, ATR60-16 (also older 1970s machines like the 90-16, 8516b)
Otari MX70 (also available in 1" 8-track format)
Soundcraft 760 was also available in this format
ITAM 816 (Looks like a rebadged Soundcraft, rare and an unknown quantity)

In addition there are also 1" 24-track machines like the TASCAM MSR-24, and Fostex G24

1/2"
TASCAM MSR-16
Fostex B16, E16, G16

Realistically, you'd probably be looking at an E16 if your budget is about £350. Be wary about the state of the heads, though - they're very difficult to come by. There is one on ebay at the moment, actually.
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Yea, that E-16 is only 15 mins away from me.
 
Heh, there's also an ITAM, but I wouldn't recommend it - not least because it seems to be faulty.
 
mfdjuve said:
a bit off topic i know....

I plan to record to tape, mix down in to computer. I've been doing this with my 488.

problems I've had...

Latency! If I record each track separately into the computer, I have such a hard time, lining up the tracks to make timing like it should. Even if it's a mille second off, it can ruin a song. So to avoid this, I record all tracks at the same time, and end up having to perform 'live mixing'. Not convenient when using effects, especially as there are only 2 effect sends on the 488. Anyway to the point...to avoid having to dump tracks into the comp..I've been looking at 16 tracks (8 tracks aren't enough, and bouncing confuses me).

Is there any knowledge or technique I missing out on, regarding...mixing with effects....dumping tracks into comp? I'd prefer an 8 track recorder, they're much easier to find.

thank you
Click to expand...

To fix your 'latency' issue, you just need an 8 channel digital audio interface. That will keep all 8 separate tracks aligned when it is on the computer then you can mix away in the box. Even if you get a 16 track recorder, you will have the same problem if you want to do mixing on the computer, you will then need a 16 channel interface (more expensive).
 
Chilljam said:
To fix your 'latency' issue, you just need an 8 channel digital audio interface. That will keep all 8 separate tracks aligned when it is on the computer then you can mix away in the box. Even if you get a 16 track recorder, you will have the same problem if you want to do mixing on the computer, you will then need a 16 channel interface (more expensive).
Click to expand...

Is that the only way to do it? 8 channel DAI's aren't cheap :(
 
That is how I do it on my 8 track reel to reel.

You get much greater editing capabilities when you mix on the computer. Also, if you already have a pretty good music production program... you get all the compressors/eq/reverbs etc. built in whilst buying all that outboard gear (although could potentially be of a higher quality) will cost many times more than a semi decent 8 channel DAI.
 
Chilljam said:
That is how I do it on my 8 track reel to reel.

You get much greater editing capabilities when you mix on the computer. Also, if you already have a pretty good music production program... you get all the compressors/eq/reverbs etc. built in whilst buying all that outboard gear (although could potentially be of a higher quality) will cost many times more than a semi decent 8 channel DAI.
Click to expand...

We each have our own approach to this. My preference is not to do that much editing or processing of recorded tracks. Certainly not to spend a lot of time tweaking tiny details. I find that I know my playing, instruments, room, mikes and recording technique well enough to get what I'm after pretty consistently in the tracking process.

The joy of tracking and mixing on tape for me is that I can get that sound quickly and consistently without any processing gear most of the time and the mix comes together quickly and easily. I've been known to finish the mix on a tune where I played all the tracks within a half of an hour, including tracking time. There's also an economy there in terms of gear expense and time that is often not appreciated

Cheers,

Otto
 
I bought a tascam TSR8 last year. mint condition, needed a sensor replaced though which cost be about $100 to get a tech to do. The machine is solid and has been running really well ever since. ive used it alot. keep the tape path clean, keep an eye on things. As vessel2020 says, thats the fun part!
I wanted a tape machine for aeons, but i waited til there was one nearby that i could see, feel, and pick up without shipping involved. I also needed to replace the counter roller as the rubber was cracking which kills tape. Thanks to Terrys Rubber Rollers, this was cheap.
My experience with Tape is only positive. i believe there are good machines out there to be had. I guess mine all up after the repairs/replacement parts was about $750 Australian Dollars. Worth it imo.
 
Thoughts...

Analog reel recorders... have a long life ahead of them as props in rap videos and tv shows on forensics and the supernatural.

Jeff Lynne... is a genius. He ran all his old recordings through Pro Tools and it's still genius.

$25... for a 7" reel of tape is outrageous!!!

:eek:;):spank:
 
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