Soundproofing: Would OC 703 above a drop ceiling reduce bass noise upstairs?

[arcadeko]

I'm trying to get my basement studio/practice room to be a little quieter in the rooms above it. I was thinking I might put Owens Corning 703 up on the ceiling then cover it with a drop ceiling.

Think this would reduce bass upstairs and in the rest of the house?

 

[Capriccio]

No it won't. OC 703 is part of acoustic treatment. What you want is isolation, which we often call soundproofing. The way to achieve it is mass, mass and more mass. You may need to consider flanking paths too. Isolation is expensive. It will be much easier and far cheaper to make the drums quieter with neoprene pads or by using an electronic kit than it is to isolate your studio from other parts of the same building.

Have a look at the ceiling beams that were installed to keep noise out of a studio, here.

 

[JimmyS1969]

I have heard there can be a bit of turd polishing by adding multiple layers of drywall to the subfloor above (from below), between joists. There will still be an issue with decoupling, but some good results for isolation can be attained in an existing structure. I myself would then fill the remaining space with fluffy pink stuff/wire mesh/covered with cloth. But that is me and I could be stupid.

 

[arcadeko]

Well its already finished so there is drywall on the ceiling already. I seriously doubt they put insulation in it but they may have. So I was just going to attach the insulation to the existing drywall ceiling and then cover it with a drop ceiling.

The decoupling issue is one I am concerned about. I don't know if it will even make a damn bit of difference and its a lot of work...

the drums are loud as hell upstairs when we are practicing so if it could reduce it by like 10-20 decibels I think it would make a big difference. IDK if that's possible with adding a layer of insulation - it's almost all bass that's getting up there.

 

[witzendoz]

You will need to at least install a heavy ceiling of some kind, with a layer of sound deadener (dense fibreglass or something similar) above it. The ceiling should be decoupled on hangers, but sometimes this is hard in a basement due to hight loss.

If you only want to reduce the noise and are not trying for the perfect sound proof room, why not fill the cavity with fibreglass and fix a layer of particle board to the bottom of the beams to make a ceiling? Use thick particle board 16 mm (5/8") as a minimum 18 mm is even better. If you are worried about the weight, use the 16 mm and put a layer of acoustic rated gyp-rock (plaster board) over it to make it a finished ceiling. Wont be completely sound proof but will reduce the bass through the ceiling by a heap. You then have to see where else apart from the ceiling that the sound will get thorough.

Another thing is to mount the bass amp on an acoustic isolated pad, i.e., a wood platform that is isolated from the floor by isolation mounts, this decouples the bass amp from the building and the bass is not transmitted into the floor structure and then through the walls.

Alan.

 

[jhbrandt]

arcadeko,

Rock drums produce around 105 decibels. The ceiling/floor partition must be decoupled to accomplish any perceivable degree of attenuation below 250Hz. (this is basically where all the energy is)

See attached page from ir811 which can be found in it's entirety on my publications page.

You must determine exactly what you want/need and then follow proven techniques to obtain the result desired. You can't afford to go try this or that.

'real good' sound-proofing simply doesn't 'cut it'. When it comes down to the bottom line subjectivity is meaningless. You really need STC69 if you can get it and according to tested systems, you can get that with resilient decoupling and a mass equal to 3 layers of 5/8" (16mm) gypsum board (firecheck or fire rated). That is a mass of 35.1kg/m2 or 2.2lbs/ft2.

The page shows testing done with two layers of 16mm gypsum board and resilient channel. - some of the new resilient clips have shown better performance.. Check their testing data.

Long story short; Find out what you need and can afford and build that. Check testing data on systems - don't take my word for it. check the data.

Note; Sorry Alan, -- sound deadener/dense fiberglass in the partition cavity. No. Use the light building insulation fiberglass and fill it full. This will increase sound transmission loss by around 6db ( A LOT). The dense stuff does not perform better and besides, the fluffy stuff is A LOT cheaper! Good idea about decoupling the bass guitar. - The drums could also sit on a decoupled board to help prevent transmission into the structure.
Cheers,
John

 

[arcadeko]

You will need to at least install a heavy ceiling of some kind, with a layer of sound deadener (dense fibreglass or something similar) above it. The ceiling should be decoupled on hangers, but sometimes this is hard in a basement due to hight loss.

If you only want to reduce the noise and are not trying for the perfect sound proof room, why not fill the cavity with fibreglass and fix a layer of particle board to the bottom of the beams to make a ceiling? Use thick particle board 16 mm (5/8") as a minimum 18 mm is even better. If you are worried about the weight, use the 16 mm and put a layer of acoustic rated gyp-rock (plaster board) over it to make it a finished ceiling. Wont be completely sound proof but will reduce the bass through the ceiling by a heap. You then have to see where else apart from the ceiling that the sound will get thorough.

Another thing is to mount the bass amp on an acoustic isolated pad, i.e., a wood platform that is isolated from the floor by isolation mounts, this decouples the bass amp from the building and the bass is not transmitted into the floor structure and then through the walls.

Great info thanks Alan. A couple of caveats maybe you can address.

1. The ceiling is already finished (It was when I bought the house) so there is already drywall on the ceiling. Also to make it more complicated, the ceiling is split level, part of it is already dropped, I think there is duct work in there... So I would only be adding a drop ceiling to an 8' x 14' section of the 12' x 14' room - this may quite possible make it completely pointless since I can not really do anything to the existing dropped portion! I really don't want to rip out the ceiling, so if it wont help then I just wont do it.

2. The bass is all coming from 2 12" PA speakers sitting on the floor - the floor is concrete slab covered in carpet. So would it still help to add some decoupled risers to the speakers? does concrete transmit the bass as much as a wood floor? This would be the easiest thing to do, but I wasn't sure if it mattered as much since the floor was concrete - does concrete transmit bass very much?

arcadeko,

Rock drums produce around 105 decibels. The ceiling/floor partition must be decoupled to accomplish any perceivable degree of attenuation below 250Hz. (this is basically where all the energy is)

See attached page from ir811 which can be found in it's entirety on my publications page.

You must determine exactly what you want/need and then follow proven techniques to obtain the result desired. You can't afford to go try this or that.

'real good' sound-proofing simply doesn't 'cut it'. When it comes down to the bottom line subjectivity is meaningless. You really need STC69 if you can get it and according to tested systems, you can get that with resilient decoupling and a mass equal to 3 layers of 5/8" (16mm) gypsum board (firecheck or fire rated). That is a mass of 35.1kg/m2 or 2.2lbs/ft2.

The page shows testing done with two layers of 16mm gypsum board and resilient channel. - some of the new resilient clips have shown better performance.. Check their testing data.

Long story short; Find out what you need and can afford and build that. Check testing data on systems - don't take my word for it. check the data.

Note; Sorry Alan, -- sound deadener/dense fiberglass in the partition cavity. No. Use the light building insulation fiberglass and fill it full. This will increase sound transmission loss by around 6db ( A LOT). The dense stuff does not perform better and besides, the fluffy stuff is A LOT cheaper! Good idea about decoupling the bass guitar. - The drums could also sit on a decoupled board to help prevent transmission into the structure.
Cheers,
John

Great in depth stuff John. The drums are electronic and being played through a PA so it might be easier to deal with. I can't really make a isolated floor so I am really just in a position to try and retro fit what I can in order to reduce some of the bass leaking upstairs. It may be hopeless in this situation.

I think my best bet is probably isolate the PA speakers on some kind of riser with some an isolation mount. Unless it doesn't help that much on concrete.

Here are some pics of the ceiling and drums/PA speakers.

http://arcadeko.com/studio/ceiling.jpg
http://arcadeko.com/studio/ceiling2.jpg
http://arcadeko.com/studio/drums.jpg

 

[Supercreep]

Your best bet is to work it out with the folks upstairs. It'd be cheaper to rent an offsite studio space then it would be to decouple the room.

 

[arcadeko]

Your best bet is to work it out with the folks upstairs. It'd be cheaper to rent an offsite studio space then it would be to decouple the room.

Well I am married to the one upstairs so it's more of a comfort thing I didn't think there was really any easy fix for it...

 

[witzendoz]

Great info thanks Alan. A couple of caveats maybe you can address.

1. The ceiling is already finished (It was when I bought the house) so there is already drywall on the ceiling. Also to make it more complicated, the ceiling is split level, part of it is already dropped, I think there is duct work in there... So I would only be adding a drop ceiling to an 8' x 14' section of the 12' x 14' room - this may quite possible make it completely pointless since I can not really do anything to the existing dropped portion! I really don't want to rip out the ceiling, so if it wont help then I just wont do it.

This makes it hard, it will very hard to do anything with the dropped section of the ceiling. One way to tackle the drop part would be to cut an inspection hole in it and have a look inside, it may be possible to fill the cavity with sound deadener and because there maybe already 2 layers of ceiling, the dropped part and one above the cavity, just filling the cavity may help the situation. Then you could build a drop ceiling on the other side of the room filled with deadener.

A couple of things, If possible I would add another layer of ceiling directly over the one thats there to give it more density and also use a double layer on the new drop side. I also would not drop the new part as low as the existing as the old side is already too low for good acoustics.

2. The bass is all coming from 2 12" PA speakers sitting on the floor - the floor is concrete slab covered in carpet. So would it still help to add some decoupled risers to the speakers? does concrete transmit the bass as much as a wood floor? This would be the easiest thing to do, but I wasn't sure if it mattered as much since the floor was concrete - does concrete transmit bass very much?

Great in depth stuff John. The drums are electronic and being played through a PA so it might be easier to deal with. I can't really make a isolated floor so I am really just in a position to try and retro fit what I can in order to reduce some of the bass leaking upstairs. It may be hopeless in this situation.

I think my best bet is probably isolate the PA speakers on some kind of riser with some an isolation mount. Unless it doesn't help that much on concrete.

Yes the bass is transmitted through the floor and up the walls, even putting the PA speakers on stands may help the situation as the stands will isolate the bass to some degree.


The only way to fully fix the problem would be to take out the old drop ceiling and build a completely new drop ceiling as per the suggestions across the whole room, however if the desired result is to just stop the family complaining and you can reduce the bass enough with the mods suggested you have got what you wanted.

Alan.