kcearl
I see deaf people
they should just outlaw metal all together and buy everyone a coke...
G
Greg_L
Banned
40,000 metal bands doesn't = 40,000 good bands.
It's too super easy to buy gear and record your own shit and get it worldwide on the internet. They talent pool is way watered down, which has lowered the bar, and people are too quick and willing to accept any old shit as good.
A
alaina
New member
Online marketing also known by the names Internet marketing, digital marketing, web marketing-marketing etc.Success of site not only depends upon having a fantastic site but on getting traffic and that too qualified website traffic. It is not limited up to marketing in terms of internet but also it has a very wide scope and can be performed on wireless networks as well. It altogether ties the various aspects of internet which includes design, development, sales etc.
kidkage
Bored of Canada
40,000 regurgitated breakdowns that all sound like the "breakdown" from "one" (by metallica)
Bristol Posse
Okey Dokey
Marketing anything is F*cking hard. You're trying to convince people that they want something amongst a million other shiny things clamoring for their attention
Even if you have a great finished product, it's no guarantee of success. Back in the day, one of the huge benefits bands got from being signed to a label was a team of people dedicated to getting the word out through radio placement, print ads, booking shows, placing music into TV shows and on and on.
This is a full time job in of itself quite aside from doing anything around creating music
The generally accepted way to get a following and become well known (even in this digital age) is to play shows. People get to see who you are, what kind of energy and passion you bring to a performance and can connect with you. From there you can get sign ups to mailing lists/facebook/websites/twitter (which you will need to frequently be updating to keep yourself current) and have them begin to spread the word about you to their friends.
Even if you can make this work it rarely leads to vasts armys of adoring fans and limitless amounts of cash.
It's easy to hear the stories of the one or two people who went viral and became well known (for a minute) without any real effort and assume that will happen to you too, without considering the tens of millions of people of equal talent (or lack thereof) who remain completely unknown. The sad truth is that almost everyone is going to end up in that vast sea of unknowns and unfortunately even a mountain of youtube hits really doesn't equal lasting fame or big bucks
I like the comment about keeping it a hobby. Turning anything you love into a job turns it into..well...a job. You have to produce on someone else's schedule whether you feel like it or not, you have to play that show even if you'd rather just go home and Xbox for a while, gotta come up with something to tweet, gotta put up something cool on face book, gotta rehearse, can't do that song you really want cos it isn't commercially viable, etc. And your ability to live your life is now dependent on your ability to produce on demand no matter how you feel about it. What you love now becomes beholdent to other people
Get a job doing something else that pays a sh!t load of money and do your own music as a way of escaping the daily grind (rather than have the music be the daily grind). Keep the music as something you do simply because you love it. If other people love it too that's a bonus, but it won't ruin your livelyhood, future and dreams if they don't and the music is still wholly yours.
Even if you have a great finished product, it's no guarantee of success. Back in the day, one of the huge benefits bands got from being signed to a label was a team of people dedicated to getting the word out through radio placement, print ads, booking shows, placing music into TV shows and on and on.
This is a full time job in of itself quite aside from doing anything around creating music
The generally accepted way to get a following and become well known (even in this digital age) is to play shows. People get to see who you are, what kind of energy and passion you bring to a performance and can connect with you. From there you can get sign ups to mailing lists/facebook/websites/twitter (which you will need to frequently be updating to keep yourself current) and have them begin to spread the word about you to their friends.
Even if you can make this work it rarely leads to vasts armys of adoring fans and limitless amounts of cash.
It's easy to hear the stories of the one or two people who went viral and became well known (for a minute) without any real effort and assume that will happen to you too, without considering the tens of millions of people of equal talent (or lack thereof) who remain completely unknown. The sad truth is that almost everyone is going to end up in that vast sea of unknowns and unfortunately even a mountain of youtube hits really doesn't equal lasting fame or big bucks
I like the comment about keeping it a hobby. Turning anything you love into a job turns it into..well...a job. You have to produce on someone else's schedule whether you feel like it or not, you have to play that show even if you'd rather just go home and Xbox for a while, gotta come up with something to tweet, gotta put up something cool on face book, gotta rehearse, can't do that song you really want cos it isn't commercially viable, etc. And your ability to live your life is now dependent on your ability to produce on demand no matter how you feel about it. What you love now becomes beholdent to other people
Get a job doing something else that pays a sh!t load of money and do your own music as a way of escaping the daily grind (rather than have the music be the daily grind). Keep the music as something you do simply because you love it. If other people love it too that's a bonus, but it won't ruin your livelyhood, future and dreams if they don't and the music is still wholly yours.
U
unclemeat
New member
I work in internet marketing... so that doesn't really make my points any more valid, but I at least think about this junk on a regular basis.
Whether you're selling derby hats in a 1923 Sears catalog or getting people to visit your yoga parlor by hosting a tweetup, the point is the same. There's no formula, everything has to be perfect, and there's a ton of luck involved. And really, that has been forgotten a lot on the net. So many people expect to start a Facebook page, become the mayor of their apartment on Foursquare and all the sudden you can watch your Google Analytics visit totals skyrocket. People think the power of the internet allows things to happen so much easier and faster because the entire planet is connected. Well really, it makes it harder in a lot of ways. With the insane amount of content coming out every day, you have to work even harder to get noticed. You need to see what everyone else is doing, learn their methods inside and out, then do something different. You need to keep changing your strategy every day just to keep up. And even then, you still probably won't get noticed.
I could go on and on with that, but it would only make me sad (and probably others too, haha). The bigger question is, what do you want to get out of this? Do you want to be rich? Do you want 500 people to hear your single? Do you want to get 1 fan on Facebook that is NOT someone you know? Set goals, figure out the steps needed to reach that goal, work towards it. If you don't know where you're trying to go, you'll go nowhere.
Whether you're selling derby hats in a 1923 Sears catalog or getting people to visit your yoga parlor by hosting a tweetup, the point is the same. There's no formula, everything has to be perfect, and there's a ton of luck involved. And really, that has been forgotten a lot on the net. So many people expect to start a Facebook page, become the mayor of their apartment on Foursquare and all the sudden you can watch your Google Analytics visit totals skyrocket. People think the power of the internet allows things to happen so much easier and faster because the entire planet is connected. Well really, it makes it harder in a lot of ways. With the insane amount of content coming out every day, you have to work even harder to get noticed. You need to see what everyone else is doing, learn their methods inside and out, then do something different. You need to keep changing your strategy every day just to keep up. And even then, you still probably won't get noticed.
I could go on and on with that, but it would only make me sad (and probably others too, haha). The bigger question is, what do you want to get out of this? Do you want to be rich? Do you want 500 people to hear your single? Do you want to get 1 fan on Facebook that is NOT someone you know? Set goals, figure out the steps needed to reach that goal, work towards it. If you don't know where you're trying to go, you'll go nowhere.
kidkage
Bored of Canada
that. exactly.
VomitHatSteve
Hat STYLE. Not contents.
Well... It can happen, it's just the same long shot that that the old "I was singing in the shower when an A&R rep walked by and heard my voice. He was so impressed that he gave me a contract right there!" joke used to be.
You might get a million hits for doing nothing if the guys from Penny Arcade link to you or someone pushes you to the top of Digg, but it's pretty unlikely.
kidkage
Bored of Canada
Nothing still beats getting out and playing to get people to hear your music. Not that I would know.
G
Greg_L
Banned
That aint worth a shit either.
There's only one thing that matters - luck. You can gig, promote, tour, record, and get all the meaningless facebook fans in the world, and none of it matters unless you simply get lucky.
B
benherron.rrr
New member
I agree luck is everything, always has been and always will be. I would say that it is so much harder to make it in the industry nowadays. Music for the most part has always been about money. do you think mozart would of written all that music if he didn't get paid? Even when Edison invented on of the first recording devices his first thourghts were about how it could make him money. It's more difficult now because the people on top are hard headed bussiness people. sell as many for as much as possible and make it as fast and cheap as possible. This is the reason why music is so disposible, it is far more profitable to find a fame seeking person who will sign anything. give them an album and then dump them then it is to place lasting support in artists worth supporting. A song comes along you love it. . . 3 months later you forget it existed replaced by the same song sung by a different person. What I find most depressing is that the people who are unhappy with this way of things are too willing to accept it for how it is, and not stand up for what they belive in and change this industry.
If you really want to make it as an artist, pay alot of money to go to a fancy stage school, and if you don't get noticed go on some talent show with a sob story and you will win hands down. I would say 90% of artists in the charts nowadays. . . at least in the UK all did this, most of them know each other from school. There used to be a fighting chance for the normal guy. . . not now.
G
Greg_L
Banned
Your only chance at "riches" in music is with being a songwriter. If money is your goal, forget performing. Forget production. Forget everything think you know and want to do. Write a hit song and have some robot pop-star "sing" it and you're done. Write a few serviceable songs and make a decent living. Write your own music for yourself and stay shit poor.
Or....get an education, get a job, and do music for the fun of it.
Or....get an education, get a job, and do music for the fun of it.
B
benherron.rrr
New member
Do that, all you need to do is forget about any morals you have, you can even make a nice little template, which is a whole song, every so often change the lyrics a little bit mess around with the synth presets you use. and maybe change the tempo to really fool people.
Or
Do what I do, spend a few months making 250000 cardboard people, then make a cardboard stage, find a field to put them in. . . instant rockstar.
VomitHatSteve
Hat STYLE. Not contents.
I think we can find a good compromise between these two ideas:
Do as Gerg says and get a real job. Use your real job to buy a really nice entertainment system with a huge, wall-sized TV and surround sound. Then buy yourself a copy of Rock Band and bask in the adulation of your digital fans.
They should make DLC which makes 1,000,000 people fan your "band's" Facebook page!
Do as Gerg says and get a real job. Use your real job to buy a really nice entertainment system with a huge, wall-sized TV and surround sound. Then buy yourself a copy of Rock Band and bask in the adulation of your digital fans.
They should make DLC which makes 1,000,000 people fan your "band's" Facebook page!
U
unclemeat
New member
Nah, it's not just luck. That plays a part in it, but that's not it.
Sooo many musicians don't treat it like a business. It's your job. Go talk to people who work in the corporate world and ask them how they got where they are. Chances are it's studying, hard work, networking, more hard work, luck. Use the same mindset for making a living on music. You can't just sweet talk the fans, you need to get involved with the people who can really make things happen for you. If you're playing a club that holds 50 people, befriend the booking manager at the club that holds 200 people. If there's a band that draws a mega huge crowd in your town, befriend them, open for them.
Then, leave your family and friends and move to a real city where musicians actually get noticed. Sure every so often there will be a Conor Oberst type that gets discovered while living in a worthless state (for music), but those opportunities are rare. If you don't live in one of the top 2-3 cities in the US, you need to move. Then start the whole networking and hard work thing over again.
Sooo many musicians don't treat it like a business. It's your job. Go talk to people who work in the corporate world and ask them how they got where they are. Chances are it's studying, hard work, networking, more hard work, luck. Use the same mindset for making a living on music. You can't just sweet talk the fans, you need to get involved with the people who can really make things happen for you. If you're playing a club that holds 50 people, befriend the booking manager at the club that holds 200 people. If there's a band that draws a mega huge crowd in your town, befriend them, open for them.
Then, leave your family and friends and move to a real city where musicians actually get noticed. Sure every so often there will be a Conor Oberst type that gets discovered while living in a worthless state (for music), but those opportunities are rare. If you don't live in one of the top 2-3 cities in the US, you need to move. Then start the whole networking and hard work thing over again.
arcadeko
Illuminatius Overlordious
From an experience perspective - as in the experience of performing music live - there is nothing else quite like it. It can be a lot of fun. I think many bands perform because it is really really fun. You can't get rich doing it, or even cover your expenses most of the time (unless you win the rock star lottery). But you can have a good time.
You will not be able to buy all the gear you want with that income - so find a career you can live with and use it to finance your music.
When I was your age I was in several bands and I spent all my spare cash on equipment. Played out a few times, had a lot of fun. Wasn't very good, but I had fun. Eventually I was just so broke and so tired of being poor that I just said screw it and sold off all my equipment. I was going to move to NYC and work on my art career. Luckily some girl screwed me over and I lost all the cash and didn't end up in NYC (Where I would have probably died of an overdoes in a cardboard box in Brooklyn). Anyway - I got a real job, and then years later, I remembered how much fun I had playing music and realized I could now afford it and I am having a lot of fun.
You can skip the 20 years hiatus I took and keep the music balanced with earning a living. Even with a full-time job you can play music every single day...
GL Kid
studiosound
New member
Internet marketing is an enormous field with many finding success, however there’s still a lot power in quality and personal connections. I’ll put in another vote for the comments about keeping it a hobby too.
PDP
There once was a note
Lol, ever see Robert Deniro in the movie he played Rupert Pupkin a wanna b comedian? He sets up a stage like the tonite show in his basement. Great movie, LMAO.
G
GeoffryMcDonald
New member
From my experience as an artist, I have found that making a living as a musician or producer is "10% luck, 20% skill, 15% concentrated power of will, 5% pleasure, 50% pain," (to quote a famous "pop" song 
). When you start creating music for the purpose of making a living off it, you are, to put it simply, starting your own business. And just like starting any other business, marketing music takes a lot of hard work and a lot of sleepless nights, and although you could become a sensation over night, my observation is to plan for the worst and hope for the best, because it's probably not gonna happen.
Generally speaking there are two types of musicians. Musicians who want nothing more than to be famous, and are in music simply because they want to become famous, and musicians who just love music and want to make a living doing what they love. If you're in it just because you want to be famous, you may as well do something else, because it's not going to happen. However if you're in it because you love music, then there are a few things you should have in mind.
1. 90% of a musician's income comes from preforming. Or in other words, get used to being in front of people. You won't make it if you can't or hate it.
2. Follow the 1000 True Fan Rule. It takes about 1000 true fans for a musician to be able to survive without having a second job. True fans are fans that will buy what ever you sell, just because it's you who is selling it. Take for instance the UNICEF project, they are selling bottles of water taken from the sink of artists like Taylor Swift, for $10 each and are using the money for whatever it is UNICEF does.
3. You have to get into social networking. If you want to make it, get an official twitter page, facebook page, and myspace, along with every other type of social networking you can think of. In today's music industry it is essential to connect with your fans, or potential fans.
4. Don't be afraid to give away some free downloads. Offer up some free downloads of some of your songs, people will download some of your music because it's free and who knows, maybe they will get hooked and end up buying your music in the future.
5. Try making a music video. Fact. People are more likely to enjoy listening to your music if they have some kind of a video to watch with it. Even if it's just a lyric video.
6. Figure out what works for you. It used to be that artists would do an album every 6 months or so and simply tour in between. In my opinion (yes, please feel free to disagree) it is better to release a single every 2 or 3 weeks then release an album every few months. It gives you more interaction with your fans.
I hope this helps a bit
). When you start creating music for the purpose of making a living off it, you are, to put it simply, starting your own business. And just like starting any other business, marketing music takes a lot of hard work and a lot of sleepless nights, and although you could become a sensation over night, my observation is to plan for the worst and hope for the best, because it's probably not gonna happen.Generally speaking there are two types of musicians. Musicians who want nothing more than to be famous, and are in music simply because they want to become famous, and musicians who just love music and want to make a living doing what they love. If you're in it just because you want to be famous, you may as well do something else, because it's not going to happen. However if you're in it because you love music, then there are a few things you should have in mind.
1. 90% of a musician's income comes from preforming. Or in other words, get used to being in front of people. You won't make it if you can't or hate it.
2. Follow the 1000 True Fan Rule. It takes about 1000 true fans for a musician to be able to survive without having a second job. True fans are fans that will buy what ever you sell, just because it's you who is selling it. Take for instance the UNICEF project, they are selling bottles of water taken from the sink of artists like Taylor Swift, for $10 each and are using the money for whatever it is UNICEF does.
3. You have to get into social networking. If you want to make it, get an official twitter page, facebook page, and myspace, along with every other type of social networking you can think of. In today's music industry it is essential to connect with your fans, or potential fans.
4. Don't be afraid to give away some free downloads. Offer up some free downloads of some of your songs, people will download some of your music because it's free and who knows, maybe they will get hooked and end up buying your music in the future.
5. Try making a music video. Fact. People are more likely to enjoy listening to your music if they have some kind of a video to watch with it. Even if it's just a lyric video.
6. Figure out what works for you. It used to be that artists would do an album every 6 months or so and simply tour in between. In my opinion (yes, please feel free to disagree) it is better to release a single every 2 or 3 weeks then release an album every few months. It gives you more interaction with your fans.
I hope this helps a bit
S
SongBird101
New member
Do it and do it for love.
As for internet marketing, more eyes on the product the better. 10000 may see your facebook/twitter/myspace page but only 1 or 2 may buy/listen - so get 100000 people to view your promo, and so on....
As for internet marketing, more eyes on the product the better. 10000 may see your facebook/twitter/myspace page but only 1 or 2 may buy/listen - so get 100000 people to view your promo, and so on....