How DO YOU mix?

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benherron.rrr

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Ive spent a large amount of time writing and recording songs, and as far as that goes I feel my skills as a musician and recording engineer are coming along nicely. Its when I get to the mixing when I start to fail and give up on the song. feeling like there is so much to learn and no matter how much I read nothing evolves.

Soooo. I thourght It would be a nice Idea to see how the community mixes their songs?

How do you build up your mixes? like a house from the bottom up? or get the vocals pristine and wrap them in a blanket of drums and guitars? etc.

How do you stage your mix? start with the levels-EQ-Effects-Automation etc.?

Just basically anything that you do to build up the song into a finished masterpiece
 
jack joseph puig said in an interview that once the mix begins, he roughs it out for like 20-45 minutes and builds an instinctive first draft mix. after that he saves a copy, takes a picture of the console, and then starts to fine tune it. I take after that as well. For me, I just picture what I want the song to sound like, write down my ideas, and start mixing it up. I don't use a lot of compression, I EQ a lot, and whatever feels good, I stick to it. Truthfully, my process changes everytime I mix.
 
Greg_L said:
I start with hopes and dreams and end hanging from a rope.
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:p:drunk: That's a cutie.

Like sculpting. You chip away at what you don't want- biggest stuff first.
:)
Really. But that would be your roughing in, the time to fly seat of the pants and try bigger moves and combos. For me right along in that the time line is looking for eq cuts on the more obvious things that stick out, and likely clip (or 'trim -pre-fader and insert) automation.
I've sort of gotten stuck on seeing how far I can take it before reaching for the toys. Part of a pride thing? Don't know for sure, but it seems a way to at least try to keep it real' and surviving into the end a bit stronger(?)
Anywho, though I don't see how you would avoid some circular process of refinement, this probably does make me slower to that end point.

add.. picking, tuning the right verbs and ambience/staging.. a very tough one (for me.
And among my last steps is tuning the low end. I was just wondering if that seems backwards to you all?
 
Terra said:
jack joseph puig said in an interview that once the mix begins, he roughs it out for like 20-45 minutes and builds an instinctive first draft mix. after that he saves a copy, takes a picture of the console, and then starts to fine tune it. I take after that as well. For me, I just picture what I want the song to sound like, write down my ideas, and start mixing it up. I don't use a lot of compression, I EQ a lot, and whatever feels good, I stick to it. Truthfully, my process changes everytime I mix.
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+1 on this post. Just to add m own spin to what I personally consider the key points:
For me, I just picture what I want the song to sound like
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Just like you gotta know your destination in your head in order to steer your car down the right roads, you should know just what you want the final mix to sound like in you head in order to know what your mix needs to get there. Ideally, the earlier in the whole process you can figure that out, the easier the mixing will be.
[Q!UOTE]he roughs it out for like 20-45 minutes and builds an instinctive first draft mix. after that he saves a copy, takes a picture of the console, and then starts to fine tune it.[/QUOTE]That's great; I'd take it even a step earlier by starting with whats commonly called a "faders up" mix. - i.e just turn all your tracks up to unity gain on the faders (the zero boot/zero cut point about 2/3rds of the way up the fader). Then listen to that raw mix and decide how it difers from what you want in your head.

From there attack each difference as required. It's often common to start with the rhythm section stuff first, and build upon that ending with the lead instrument or vocal tracks, but that's not written in stone. Do whatever seems to come to you in that regard.
Truthfully, my process changes everytime I mix.
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Amen to that. Let the tracks tell you what they need and when they need it. If you have the idea what you want and the ear to hear the difference, it's really not rocket surgery requiring a set procedure. If you are missing either one of those, honestly you are fighting a battle you're as likely to lose as to win, but you'll probably be better prepared for the next time.

And one last thing I'd like to add: keep both your recording and mix track levels down away from 0dBFS. Worry about the overall volume later. but the lower you keep your recording and mixing levels (within sane limits, that is ;)) the better-sounding your mix will be.

G.
 
benherron.rrr said:
Ive spent a large amount of time writing and recording songs, and as far as that goes I feel my skills as a musician and recording engineer are coming along nicely. Its when I get to the mixing when I start to fail and give up on the song. feeling like there is so much to learn and no matter how much I read nothing evolves.

Soooo. I thourght It would be a nice Idea to see how the community mixes their songs?

How do you build up your mixes? like a house from the bottom up? or get the vocals pristine and wrap them in a blanket of drums and guitars? etc.

How do you stage your mix? start with the levels-EQ-Effects-Automation etc.?

Just basically anything that you do to build up the song into a finished masterpiece
Click to expand...

i tell you what helped me improve drastically recently, and its not big skill or secret...but its just being tidier and getting into a routine...I do a rough mix as Im tracking then write down any parts to keep in the mix or to remember worked...then when I import my stems into my final project I group them, colour code them, and give each group a labelled bus..

it seems obvious but before Id just import everything, no rough mix, no grouping and my mixes were all over the place...it takes a few minutes but really improves workflow, especially when you look for critiques and have to go back and adjust the mix
 
kcearl said:
i tell you what helped me improve drastically recently, and its not big skill or secret...but its just being tidier and getting into a routine...I do a rough mix as Im tracking then write down any parts to keep in the mix or to remember worked...then when I import my stems into my final project I group them, colour code them, and give each group a labelled bus..

it seems obvious but before Id just import everything, no rough mix, no grouping and my mixes were all over the place...it takes a few minutes but really improves workflow, especially when you look for critiques and have to go back and adjust the mix
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I find that really helps everything! ive been looking back on some old unfinished work and cant tell what anything is.

Do you ever find you make the mistake of doing things for the sake of doing them? I supose the hardest part isn't knowing where you want to go with a mix/song, but its figuring out how to get there. Recently Ive been attempting to mix a song, Getting the vocals and drums to sit is by far the hardest part. After messing around for ages I seem to be happier with the unprocessed vocal opposed to the efforts Ive made to improve the tracks.

I wanted to find out how people generally mix because I cant appear to find any way that fits for me. Mixing seems rather like peeling an onion, I can get the levels alright but then you start to eq and that throws them out, and by the time im 5mins in It has just turned to mush!

Perhaps im just a bit usless! maybe I should give up :(
 
If you can record your sounds so that you don't need much eq it makes the whole job so much easier. Only use eq if you have to and if it truly makes things better. Set out to use none when you record anything. I always end up using some though.

I get the feeling that some people get everything "finished" and then start mastering and change everything. I'm always running through my mastering setup, so when it comes to mastering there's no big change.

Everything is built on the kick and if you can get some sort of standard there it helps. Start out every song from the kick volume.

Probably what happens is people do song after song and then one day fluke one song that is way better than the others. So you keep those settings and do the next song like that. Especially for the kick and bass, because those are most of your volume. Not very scientific but I suspect that's the real world.
 
dintymoore said:
I get the feeling that some people get everything "finished" and then start mastering and change everything. I'm always running through my mastering setup, so when it comes to mastering there's no big change.

.
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I do the same thing, sort of. I keep a basic limiter on my master bus - turned off - while mixing. Every now and then, I'll kick the limiter on and drop the threshhold to get some squash happening just to get a rough idea of what it might sound like with some final mix limiting. This way, there's no surprises when I go to "master" the mix for the final product.
 
Mixing for me is a bit like cooking ~ I'll put it off until I have to do it but quite get into it and enjoy it once I do.
But even when I'm cooking something I've cooked 7584 times, it's still different each time. I don't always have a finalized sound in my mind either. I know what signals are there, I have some rough idea of which bits will predominate when, but it's just easier to have the faders up and proceed from there, playing with panning (I'm an extreme panner !) and seeing how things sound. It is usually a very frustrating episode for me but all the frustration is worth it because eventually, I will refine what I'm doing and it becomes easier to remember with each pass. For me that's important because alot of my stuff has had track sharing.
One thing to remember. Mixes don't have to take a week. Neither do you have to be dissatisfied with a good one just because you got it good quickly. But it's good to come back to it a few days after, just to see how you feel about it.
 
benherron.rrr said:
I find that really helps everything! ive been looking back on some old unfinished work and cant tell what anything is.

Do you ever find you make the mistake of doing things for the sake of doing them? I supose the hardest part isn't knowing where you want to go with a mix/song, but its figuring out how to get there. Recently Ive been attempting to mix a song, Getting the vocals and drums to sit is by far the hardest part. After messing around for ages I seem to be happier with the unprocessed vocal opposed to the efforts Ive made to improve the tracks.

I wanted to find out how people generally mix because I cant appear to find any way that fits for me. Mixing seems rather like peeling an onion, I can get the levels alright but then you start to eq and that throws them out, and by the time im 5mins in It has just turned to mush!

Perhaps im just a bit usless! maybe I should give up :(
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i know what you mean about going back to older stuff...Id love to re mix my first tracks, but to be honest Id be better starting from scratch, including tracking as i was just so clueless...but I still like them as they were all part of the learning process..


I remember I wanted a friend to hear a track on his PC, through PC speakers, and it was embarrassing how bad it sounded...i thought nearfields were all i would need...wont happen again :)

rather than just being a necessity i really enjoy mixing now, so keep at it mate....it takes practise and reading...and training your ears to spot whats wrong...
 
benherron.rrr said:
then you start to eq and that throws them out, and by the time im 5mins in It has just turned to mush!(
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That can happen pretty easy when *adding* too much EQ and not removing enough. When removing bad freqs from a track, it can make a track sound better without causing it to interfere with any other tracks.

Look up "parametric sweep, 0ne of the mosst useful basic EQ techniques qut there.

And also remember the old addage - which is not always true, but is true far more often than not - "cut narrow and deep, boost wide and shallow".

G.
 
benherron.rrr said:
I supose the hardest part isn't knowing where you want to go with a mix/song, but its figuring out how to get there.

you start to eq and that throws them out, and by the time im 5mins in It has just turned to mush!
:(
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Your saying alot here and dont get discouraged. Envisioning an entire song before it takes place is actually a great insight and also hard to do. Thats what I consider the heart of this craft, turning what you imagine into a recording. We discuss minute details because it helps us in the big picture, but that is all they are. If you are learning to get closer to your sound, you are progressing.
 
Sometimes what you want out of a track is just not achievable with what you have to work with. Assuming you have a lot of tracks to play with, I would suggest doing 2-3 sets of double tracks of guitars and especially vocals.
My best song has a very powerful vocal chorus. It sounds like 1-2 voices with a lot of presence and fullness. I was only able to get that by having 8 tracks of the exact same thing sung. 4 sets of tracks with the same eq & effects panned.

2 sets are dry, 2 sets have some hi's pushed, 2 sets have some delay and 2 more sets have some light chorus. It might sound like a mess, but it left me a ton of room to work with. I simply could not get that sound from adding effects to just 1-2 tracks.
same goes with guitar. Lots and lots of them. There are 2 dominant tracks and the others are lower in volume.
It does make for a LONG mixing session, but the results can be fantastic.

Check it out:
http://www.ourstage.com/tracks/UFSXWCZSQMPE-like-that-sugar

There are 2 vocals in the verses, 8 in the chorus. 2 banjo's, 2 acoustics, 2 electrics in the guitar session.
 
Hmm. Let me be the first to answer the question,

"Badly." :D




(On a more serious note - basically, I set levels, pan, and then listen for stuff that doesn't sound right to me. But that tells you precicely nothing, haha)
 
kcearl said:
i know what you mean about going back to older stuff...Id love to re mix my first tracks, but to be honest Id be better starting from scratch, including tracking as i was just so clueless...but I still like them as they were all part of the learning process..
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John Lennon frequently said he'd like to remix the Beatles' tracks. Fortunately EMI owned them !
As you get better, it is hard to resist the temptation....so just do it when you have the time !


Not only does my mixing leave alot to be desired, it desires to be alot.....
 
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