How DO YOU mix?

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grimtraveller said:
John Lennon frequently said he'd like to remix the Beatles' tracks. Fortunately EMI owned them !
As you get better, it is hard to resist the temptation....so just do it when you have the time !


Not only does my mixing leave alot to be desired, it desires to be alot.....
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no Id have to re-track them...i used to do things like saturate them in effects and then bounce them down, and the guitars were going through things like Pods etc...if I ever revisited Id definitely re-track them ;)


I tell you what Ive learned the most though..and Im sure its genre related but for me everything originates from the kick...if you've lost that, you've lost the track...its that important and its the first fader up...
no offence to any that post in the clinic but the biggest let down for homerecorders mixes is their drums...folks spend days getting that guitar tone, hone their vocals to perfection..then back it up with untreated samples from EZ Drummer going boom boom tish...it just wrecks all their hard work :o
 
lol at me talking like my bad mixes were years ago...Ive only been recording since last August :laughings:
 
kcearl said:
no offence to any that post in the clinic but the biggest let down for homerecorders mixes is their drums...folks spend days getting that guitar tone, hone their vocals to perfection..then back it up with untreated samples from ez drummer going boom boom tish...it just wrecks all their hard work :o
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+1000000000000000000000
 
I start with the drums. I start with just panning and levels, then add EQ, compression, buss compression and reverb.

Then I add the bass. Same thing as with the drums, levels first then EQ and compression.

I get the bass and the drums pumping together. If that doesn't make my toe tap, I keep working it until it does.

Then I bring in the guitars. Panning and level first, then EQ, etc...

Then keys if there are any.

Then the main vocal. Sometimes I have to revisit the guitar or some other instrument that is fighting with the vocal.

Then the backing vocal

After I get everything sounding right and working together, then I start worrying about effects and automation.

I tend to do a lot of rock and metal, so this method works for most of the stuff I do.

When I get other things in, I have to figure out what instrument/group of instruments is driving the song. Then I make that work and build from there. I always do the vocals last. I'm not sure why.
 
kcearl said:
Im sure its genre related but for me everything originates from the kick...if you've lost that, you've lost the track...
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Firstly I want to preface this by saying I'm neither arguing nor attacking, kc, I just want to continue the conversation is all...

Once one has tracked and mixed songs that have very little or even no drums at all in them, it gives one a different perspective - a different ear, if you will - no matter what kind of music you have up in the desk. The possibilities open up.

Personally I'm not much of a believer in the whole concept of "genre" when I'm producing. Some kinds of music demand a certain sound, sure. But where is it written that I have to create "that kind" of music?

If I am following the client's desires, that's different, of course. But when producing my own track, I don't set out by saying I have to limit myself to some narrow definition of "genre".

I'm mot saying that's how everybody should do it all the time; it isn't. I'm just saying that the more "genres" one has the opportunity to work with over time, the less likely one is to say that instrument x should always take such-and-such a role in the arrangement and should always sound like y.

Some of the strongest rock out there has little or no kick drum at all. Other equally rockin' tunes revolve completely around the kick. Most rock recordings have the kick as a base, but it isn't particularly strong in the mix at all. Which one way is right? They all are.

G.
 
Im sure it does make a difference when you mix songs from across the spectrum...its just not something I do so i can only speak for myself, due to the fact I only mix my own stuff, and I also cant remember one track in the clinic that had no drums...Id say other that some of the jazz or quirkier stuff nearly everything in there is beat driven, and the bad ones are the ones that lose their kick or cannot get a relationship between it and the bass..and then after that its generally the snare they screw up...and then the cymbals lol...I think drums become a second thought for so many

this is all in my inexperienced opinion of course..I just know that my mixes work 90% of the time now, and its seldom those parts of it I get wrong
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
I'm just saying that the more "genres" one has the opportunity to work with over time, the less likely one is to say that instrument x should always take such-and-such a role in the arrangement and should always sound like y.
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So true.

Not that there's anything specifically wrong with having a singular, personal perspective that's driven by your own specific/favorite style/genre...but too often the folks who record only their own stuff tend to use that to measure/compare everything else to.
Like...if they're mostly into metal, then their guitar appreciation leans towards those kinds of sounds/tones...or if they're mainly into Hip Hop, then they usually like to hear the over-the-top low end on everything...etc.

When you play, record and mix everything from Punk to Pop to Country to New Age...and stuff in-between...there's less chance of your mixing always leaning toward a singular style and anticipating how stuff *should always* sound...and you instead just accept the song as-is rather than thinking "I gotta make the xxx sound like THIS".
 
kcearl said:
and I also cant remember one track in the clinic that had no drums...Id say other that some of the jazz or quirkier stuff nearly everything in there is beat driven,

this is all in my inexperienced opinion of course..I just know that my mixes work 90% of the time now, and its seldom those parts of it I get wrong
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I can't explain why, nor am I editorializing on it, just saying hat I have observed: this board seems to attract a large majority of headbangers. I don't know if that is the case for home recording in general, or just this board, but there you have it.What you refer to as "quirky" is what millions of others mainline, they're only "quirky" here.

Again I'm not being adversarial. What counts is what works for you, of course. But I invite you to listen to even mainline classic rock n' roll from across the spectrum and through the history of rock from Bill Haley to Elvis Presley to the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Springsteen to Haircut100 to the Clash to Nirvana to Moby, and virtually everything in-between. Give the recordings a critical, non-biased listen and see just how prominent the kick - or even the drums in general - are or are not.

I think many may be just as surprised at what they hear as the folks who argue just which stereo perspective to give the drums. ;)

And that's the most popular "genre" that exists upon backbeat. Imagine that almost unlimited number of "genres" that don't or use something other than drums to set the beat.

There are a lot of options that can not only sound good but are used all the time outside of this BBS and in the successful commercial world.

miroslav said:
too often the folks who record only their own stuff tend to use that to measure/compare everything else to.
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And vice versa. There's a lot of people looking for a specific sound they like that someone else already came up with ("I want to sound like [insert band or album here]").

There's nothing wrong or bad about that ae all. It's a natural inclination. It's when it mutates into, "That's how it all is supposed to sound" that the music stagnates.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
I can't explain why, nor am I editorializing on it, just saying hat I have observed: this board seems to attract a large majority of headbangers. I don't know if that is the case for home recording in general, or just this board, but there you have it.What you refer to as "quirky" is what millions of others mainline, they're only "quirky" here.

Again I'm not being adversarial. What counts is what works for you, of course. But I invite you to listen to even mainline classic rock n' roll from across the spectrum and through the history of rock from Bill Haley to Elvis Presley to the Beatles to Pink Floyd to Springsteen to Haircut100 to the Clash to Nirvana to Moby, and virtually everything in-between. Give the recordings a critical, non-biased listen and see just how prominent the kick - or even the drums in general - are or are not.

I think many may be just as surprised at what they hear as the folks who argue just which stereo perspective to give the drums. ;)

And that's the most popular "genre" that exists upon backbeat. Imagine that almost unlimited number of "genres" that don't or use something other than drums to set the beat.

There are a lot of options that can not only sound good but are used all the time outside of this BBS and in the successful commercial world.

And vice versa. There's a lot of people looking for a specific sound they like that someone else already came up with ("I want to sound like [insert band or album here]").

There's nothing wrong or bad about that ae all. It's a natural inclination. It's when it mutates into, "That's how it all is supposed to sound" that the music stagnates.

G.
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i get what your saying, and my listening over the years and now is wide and pretty varied, maybe not with the same emphasis as how i listen to things in the past year...but what i'm referring to is the people here, on this site, and what ive found to be the biggest mistake....many groups ive listened to, from the small faces up to modest mouse dont have any instruments that stand out or are missing, because they are mixed well (with allowances for era) and the relationship is there...

in here, other than a handful very few play the drums as their main instrument and it seems to be the one thing they put the least effort into...and ultimately their biggest mistake...i would say, for me, other parts are overlooked if the rhythm section have got everything right, but not the other way round

the fact that on my songs the BD is trying to headbutt you and kick you while you're on the ground should be ignored lol
 
Lol. KC, don't let these geezers sway you. They tell you not fall into any genre traps, and then they tell you to go listen to what other bands sound like. Lol. These guys just like to type from their soapboxes. They're like the spineless PC police of audio. You were right with your original sentiments. If you're gonna use drums, then make them audible. If you want big drums, by all means, do it.
 
It should be noted that the original query of this thread was "How DO YOU mix?".
 
I listen to the whole thing and see what it needs. Then I do it.
 
kcearl said:
in here, other than a handful very few play the drums as their main instrument and it seems to be the one thing they put the least effort into...and ultimately their biggest mistake...i would say, for me, other parts are overlooked if the rhythm section have got everything right, but not the other way round
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OK, yeah, I'll agree with that. I think maybe we're talking two very slightly different perspectives. It's not like I'm advocating getting the drums wrong :). In fact the drums are probably the thing most gotten wrong in one way or another in HR. And that needs to be addressed as important, I agree.

I'm just saying that something like getting the kick right first and anchoring the mix around it is not always the paramount thing that many seem to think that it is. When you get a rockabilly band that has no kick drum, or a synth combo that is using no actual drum patches, you can learn that real quick, and learn that there are a dozen different ways of getting the rhythm section and the song's groove "right" that don't have to apply only to certain fake "genres".

And as far as "keeping it real", kc; there's a difference between being "real" and being an asshole. You know the difference, kc, and I appreciate that.

G.
 
SouthSIDE Glen said:
... I'm just saying that something like getting the kick right first and anchoring the mix around it is not always the paramount thing that many seem to think that it is...
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I think it is, in all the music I like, which is all Motown, pretty much everything that's ever made the Billboard charts, etc...

SouthSIDE Glen said:
... When you get a rockabilly band that has no kick drum, or a synth combo that is using no actual drum patches...
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Those bands are bizarre perversions. You could say the same about Ravi Shankar music but what most people want is music built on the kick.

All country, jazz, dixieland, metal, rock, even back to the 1870's John Philip Souza music was built on the kick. You can argue it but you're off on a weird tangent because you're not talking about the music we all listen to. All that music is built on the kick.

Elvis music is all built on the kick. It's not apparent because the kick wasn't recorded well. And Duke Ellington. And the Beatles, except for stuff like Yesterday and Eleanor Rigby which are deviations from the norm. All normal music is based on the kick, even if it's not apparent, even if you can't hear it clearly in the recording. That's the way a "normal" (I'm talking about songs you hear at Safeway) band works.
 
dintymoore said:
I think it is, in all the music I like, which is all Motown, pretty much everything that's ever made the Billboard charts, etc...



Those bands are bizarre perversions. You could say the same about Ravi Shankar music but what most people want is music built on the kick.

All country, jazz, dixieland, metal, rock, even back to the 1870's John Philip Souza music was built on the kick. You can argue it but you're off on a weird tangent because you're not talking about the music we all listen to. All that music is built on the kick.

Elvis music is all built on the kick. It's not apparent because the kick wasn't recorded well. And Duke Ellington. And the Beatles, except for stuff like Yesterday and Eleanor Rigby which are deviations from the norm. All normal music is based on the kick, even if it's not apparent, even if you can't hear it clearly in the recording. That's the way a "normal" (I'm talking about songs you hear at Safeway) band works.
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This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 
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