Help regarding buying Studio Monitors

[Mikeyprs]

Hey Guys.. (and girls),

I'm looking into buying some studio monitors (as im sure you've gathered) to go with my Tascam 2488 MkII studio desk.

At the moment i'm monitoring my recordings with the use of headphones, altho this isn't a bad thing in a way. I would like to hear my mixes through monitors as well.

I understand there are ALOT of brands out there in the marketplace so it's kinda confusing as to which are good and which aren't.

Does it really matter as to what genre of music you are recording or not??

which is (for the record) Metal xD

To a certain extent I don't really have a limit as to how much they cost (Altho I know there are some monitors that sell for £25,000 but there ya go lol)

I think anything upto £500 mark should do it - however I don't wanna blow it all on speakers and not have the money for a few mics I've after LOl

Any pointers, or knowledge on this area will greatly appreciated

Thanksss xD

 

[Dogbreath]

At the 500 and under mark, I'd say get the best ones you can afford and LEARN them in your room with your gear.

Learn how they translate to other systems when ya burn a CD. Take notes and bring those notes back to the mix.

Is your room treated by chance? That makes a big difference on how your stuff translates too.

 

[Chili]

Welcome to the site.

One thing I would do differently is buy larger monitors. I have Event ALP5's and they just don't hit the low freq stuff like I want. I have since supplemented them with bookshelf speakers and a sub-woofer and toggle back and forth. I use the ALP5's for details and soloing individual tracks and I use the bookshelf speakers/sub for overall tone and balance.

If I had it to do over again, I would buy bigger monitors. Not sure what brand, but I do love the detail and stereo imaging of the Events, just not the low end.

HTH,

 

[Massive Master]

To a certain extent I don't really have a limit as to how much they cost (Altho I know there are some monitors that sell for £25,000 but there ya go lol)

I think anything upto £500 mark should do it - however I don't wanna blow it all on speakers and not have the money for a few mics I've after LOl

Keep in mind here that this (your monitoring chain) is by far, without question, the absolute most important and vital purchase you will ever make concerning audio. Nothing else comes close, nothing else is in the same universe.

If you can wait for the mics and spend more on the monitors, it will pay off (BIG) in the long run in ways you can't even imagine at this point...

 

[Mikeyprs]

At the 500 and under mark, I'd say get the best ones you can afford and LEARN them in your room with your gear.

Is your room treated by chance? That makes a big difference on how your stuff translates too.

hey, Could you please define what you mean by "learn them"?

The room (bedroom) my Gear is in now is not treated is the answer to the next question - I'm now recording DI from the back of my Marshall AVT50hx into the Tascam studio desk.

The first recordings i've produced are uploaded here www.myspace.com/crypticcarnageuk - These demo's were recorded like this: from Guitar > pedalboard > 2488 for monitoring I was using my mum's stereo in the living room (downstairs) as I did not have any headphones at the time.

 

[Mikeyprs]

Ok Cool, Thanks for all the information so far - Much appreciated and duely noted =p

I understand the importance of them (monitors) in relation to how the end product(s) will sound.

Apologies for not being clearer on my part because it now begs the question

Which Monitors are the ideal for the job I want them to do??

What brands have you all used/currently using and what is your opinion of them??

What I would like to be able to do is test some monitors out using sample material of the sort of music i am aiming to produce to get a better understanding perhaps? ^^ would this be a wise thing to do??

Idk lol - I'm all good on the recording aspect of things (as well as performing) but this monitor stuff i'm not so sure on Lol..

 

[Dogbreath]

hey, Could you please define what you mean by "learn them"?
.

Basically it means trial n error.

I used to use an old (although kick ass) home stereo system for my monitoring chain. I'd get it to where it sounded really good in my room. Good bottom but not booming, no muddiness in the low mids, basically some pretty good mixes.
As long as I played em in my room.

Soon as I'd burn a CD and try it in other systems, it sounded like shit. Lotsa mud, too boomy etc.

So what I did was listen about a half dozen times in those different systems and keep track of what was consistently foobarred with the mix, take it back to my DAW and remix with those foot notes in mind.

It came to the point that my mixes didn't sound stellar in my room anymore but translated a lot better. Trial n error.

The 2 biggest and most important things that changed are...

#1...I got better monitors. I have the Adam A7's now and although they're not top notch, they're miles ahead as far as accuracy.
#2...I acoustically treated my room...bass traps, diffusing etc. Between the 2, translation is barely an issue anymore.

And John (massive) is right. Don't underestimate the importance of your monitors. If ya can't hear it right, ya can't mix it right.



(EDIT...sorry...we were typing at the same time...)

 

[Dogbreath]

Which Monitors are the ideal for the job I want them to do??

What brands have you all used/currently using and what is your opinion of them??

What I would like to be able to do is test some monitors out using sample material of the sort of music i am aiming to produce to get a better understanding perhaps? ^^ would this be a wise thing to do??

.

Which monitors for you? Hard sayin not knowin. Like my Adams...they're not gonna sound the same in your room vs mine.

So far I've used Events and Adams. I probably woulda liked the Events better if I had a better room to mix in instead of concrete floor and wood walls.

As far as a sample CD...sure, bring em in and play em thru some different ones. See what ya think.
Make sure they're samples of stuff you know very well.

Luck man.

 

[Chili]

As far as a sample CD...sure, bring em in and play em thru some different ones. See what ya think.
Make sure they're samples of stuff you know very well.

Luck man.

Yeah, this is where I had problems when I was shopping for monitors. A display shelf in a store is not a great place to test monitors, even if they are side by side. You jsut aren't going to get a good A/B test with all the noise in a music store. Even if it's quiet, the simple fact that two sets of monitors are side by side means there are in different positions and will sound different. I came away from the experience thinking that shopping for monitors is a crap-shoot.

I suggest buying the popular brand in your price range and acoustically treating your room. The room will make a bigger difference than the brand of speakers (within the Studio Monitor subset of speakers). And treating your room doesn't have to be expensive if you're a DIY'er.

Have fun!!

 

[bjorg]

Yeah, this is where I had problems when I was shopping for monitors. A display shelf in a store is not a great place to test monitors, even if they are side by side. You jsut aren't going to get a good A/B test with all the noise in a music store. Even if it's quiet, the simple fact that two sets of monitors are side by side means there are in different positions and will sound different. I came away from the experience thinking that shopping for monitors is a crap-shoot.

I suggest buying the popular brand in your price range and acoustically treating your room. The room will make a bigger difference than the brand of speakers (within the Studio Monitor subset of speakers). And treating your room doesn't have to be expensive if you're a DIY'er.

Have fun!!

That is some great info chili. Thanks.

 

[IndustrialOkie]

I got some Mackie 5's for under 500 and love 'em- they blow away the Rockets I started out with. Just an opinion.

 

[benherron.rrr]

Ive got some Fostex PM 0.4's (yep only person in the world who owns them) but, as a first set I cant complain, they give me the clarity and detail that I can really work with atm. But maybe a bit to small for your needs, I mainly work with rather acoustic pieces but once you add somthing a bit louder they struggle to handle the volume.

Monitors are important, Im still on the learning cerve, but at the end of the day buying monitors is like a shot in the dark. I decided to buy a cheap pair A) because I dont have the money for anything more.
B) I had no idea what i was doing, what to look for how to figure out whats best, so I went for a cheap option which works for me and it means I aint loosing out on too much money if it was the wrong one.

Truth be told I mainly chose them cause I thort they looked cool

 

[Mikeyprs]

Thanks guys for all the info, comments & suggestions so far!

It has been very helpful

And as it seems testing some speakers may prove harder then it seems =/
which kinda sucks and I understand the explanation of why it's not going to give me a true representation of the material being played with positioning... ambient noise of the shop/store etc etc.

I would acousticly treat my room, however t's proving to be rather difficult with the amount of stuff I have in here - I mean the 7-piece Ddrum Defiant kit alone takes up a huge amount of space.. (as I'm sure you can imagine) as well as all the Guitar/Bass amps, the bed and the homebuilt wardrobe.... oh and my fridge too can't forget that aha

This being said I need to do something because the resonance of the cymbal's is a killer on the ears because the walls are so flat (I do use earplus when either myself or brother is practising).

Anyway.. Back to the topic at hand =p

What sort of power (wattage) would I mostly likely to be looking for with regards to recording all the elements of a band - Drums, Bass, Guitars & Vox??

Does anyone know the differences between the ACTIVE and PASSIVE monitors?? other then active monitors need an external powersource like condenser mics and active pickups need? (EMG user here )

Has anyone had any experience with these brands: -

KRK
Genelec
Tannoy
Alesis
Samson

Again, Thanks for the comments/suggestions

Mikey

 

[grimtraveller]

Monitors are important, Im still on the learning cerve, but at the end of the day buying monitors is like a shot in the dark. I decided to buy a cheap pair A) because I dont have the money for anything more.
B) I had no idea what i was doing, what to look for how to figure out whats best, so I went for a cheap option which works for me and it means I aint loosing out on too much money if it was the wrong one.

I found this to be true. Sometimes lots of research is great but it does have a down side - the more you find out, the more scope and options you have, but the more options and scope you have, the harder it is to choose and the longer the rope with which to hang yourself ! Truth be told, I had a certain budget in my head and anything outside of it wasn't even up for consideration. That said, there were lots of monitors within my range (hundreds !) and when you're researching, there's no way you can hear what they sound like. So for many of us, you just have to take a chance. Being a monitor virgin {}, pretty much anything would sound good to me. I'm of the opinion that it's generally those with perhaps greater monitor experience that can afford to be fussy although that's by no means carved in stone.

What sort of power (wattage) would I mostly likely to be looking for with regards to recording all the elements of a band - Drums, Bass, Guitars & Vox??

Does anyone know the differences between the ACTIVE and PASSIVE monitors??

Wattagewise, I haven't the foggiest. But passive monitors need to be hooked up to an amp, whereas the active ones are self powered. You simply connect them directly to your DAW/computer/multitracker and plug them into the wall. Up until february I'd never really thought about Monitors because I quite liked my Gale 100W stereo speakers. Well, I had no reason to consider otherwise. But then I took note of the phrase 'powered monitors' and I was curious as to the difference. Once I learned that you didn't need an amp for the powered ones, my devious mind instantly thought "portability !" and the search was on. In the end, I settled for these ones, they were Studiospares own brand. I was a bit nervy, buying without having heard, especially having heard my friend's Yamahas around the same time and not being able to hear the bass, but I dig them. I wouldn't swap them, I really like them. I started off with them on full volume but now I have them much lower as I want to train myself to mix well at low levels.
I bought nearfield monitors because in the flat I live in, other than natural traps and stuff, 'treatment' isn't an option. And given that neither Diana Ross nor Lemmy are going to ask me to work on their "Suburban plainsound" remixes........

 

[Mikeyprs]

Oh ok Cool - Now I understand the differences between active and passive monitors please could someone describe the pro and cons of the two?
Other then the passives require power from an amplifier whereas the actives powered direct from a plug?

Due to acoustic treatment being potentially limited in my bedroom would "near field" monitors suit my situation better or would it be hard to tell??

Thanks for all your comments and time - They have been extremely helpful and helped another musician understand what he/she wants to do and how to get there xD

 

[John Willett]

Oh ok Cool - Now I understand the differences between active and passive monitors please could someone describe the pro and cons of the two?
Other then the passives require power from an amplifier whereas the actives powered direct from a plug?

Due to acoustic treatment being potentially limited in my bedroom would "near field" monitors suit my situation better or would it be hard to tell??

Thanks for all your comments and time - They have been extremely helpful and helped another musician understand what he/she wants to do and how to get there xD

There are actually THREE types:-

PASSIVE
These require an external amplifier or amplifiers. They have an internal crossover to split the signal between the drivers. Some come with the option of using separate external amplifiers for each driver (still going through the internal crossover) and others have the option for (again) using separate amplifiers for each driver, but using an external electronic crossover. These do not require mains power and are fed a signal from the output of the amplifier(s).

POWERED
These have an integral amplifier which feeds the drivers via the internal crossover (basically like passive loudspeakers, but the amplifier is integrated into the loudspeaker). These require mains to power the amplifier and the input is a line level signal.

ACTIVE
These have a separate internal amplifier for each driver and also an internal electronic crossover. These require mains to power the amplifiers and crossover and the input is a line level signal.

Don't confuse powered and active loudspeakers as they may look the same but are quite different in design.


Price for price a passive is always the best as you are not paying for amplifiers. Though, of course, you have to buy amplifiers as well, which puts the price up.

Quality wise, an Active is normally the best as the amplifiers are matched to the drivers and the integral electronic crossover is tailored to the unit.

Examples:-

The PMC DB1S+, TB2S+, etc. and the K+H P110 are all Passive loudspeakers.

The PMC DB1S-AII and TB2S-AII are Powered loudspeakers.

The K+H O110 and O110D are Active loudspeakers.

I hope this helps.

 

[Mikeyprs]

Hi guys,

Apologies for not gettin back to you sooner, tis been manic in this house lemme tell ya! Lol

Thanks again for the advice and explanation of the types of monitors that available.

Since I do not own any monitor amplifiers at this time (or have alot of room to place them I think :S), I'm thinking that the active or powered monitors options would be the better choice for my situation.

I've been looking through ebay to find a pair of active/powered monitors to work with my Tascam 2488 MKII here in my bedroom.

My next question is would either pair of these be suitable:

Alesis M1 520

Fostex PM05 MKII

KRK RP5​

Any thoughts, comments or suggestions would be massively appreciated

 

[frederic]

hey, Could you please define what you mean by "learn them"?

Generally speaking, no set of monitors in any room is "perfect". Obviously there is some correlation to price for both monitors and room treatments and how close to perfect one can get, but where things fall short you can "learn" the monitors in that room.

What that means is by playing your final mixes on consumer appliances - home stereos, car stereos, boom boxes, home theater systems, and so on, you can easily hear the defects in your mixes and "adjust' accordingly in your studio. Eventually, over time, you'll need to play your mixes on other things less and less, as your brain starts to understand (and learn ) the acoustical nuances of your monitors and your room.

Of course every time you change something significant in the monitors or the room, you have to re-learn this, and this does apply to bigger monitors in a well-treated studio as well, just that the learning curve is far shorter.

Years ago when I had a pro studio we retired a set of Urei monitors and replaced them with JBL's - and in fairly short order we got back on track making good mixes again because it took a week or two in order to become comfortable with them. Obviously the studio was well treated and we were in there 12 hours a day, so the time was shorter. It always took some time because our console room had an annoying pole in the middle of it due to how the bulding was constructed. The pole (12" diameter concrete) hosed everything as far as acoustical treatments because of how the room had to be laid out and three wasn't a pole on the other side of the room. You get used to it after a while both acoustically and banging your chair into it when you get up lol.

It's like riding a bicycle - the first time you fall over and skin your knee. THe next time you wobble all over the place before falling over. Eventually, with practice, you have balance and control.

Nearfield monitors are generally prefered for studios that are untreated or poorly treated, because they don't produce the power levels necessary to create massive reflections in the room. Those reflections are heard by your ears and interpreted by your brain, and all sorts of acoustical artifacts (mostly reflections) can confuse your brain as to what frequences are present and to what degree, which will cause you to misinterpret the amount of bass in your mix.

Another thing to point out is all monitors come with a sheet of paper that indicates how flat they are - and that "best" frequency response is at a specific db level - loudness. Generally speaking, nearfield monitors tend to approach their best sounding flatness at a far lower volume level than full-size studio monitors wth 8" or 10" drivers - because the amount of power that's necessary to drive the bigger monitors.

If your room stinks acoustically, mixing at 65db is much safer than mixing at 85db - weaker reflections in the room to screw up your interpretation of the mix.

Of the choices you posted, I'm only familiar with the Alesis and KRK and would choose the Alesis over the KRK every time. They're a little light on the bass however they are fairly flat overall, which I find easier to "learn" than a monitor that has more bass, but a less-flat result across the spectrum.

Not that the KRK RPS are bad or anything, they just sound a hair "off" to me.

You might also consider used monitors once you make your decision, because that will give you access to a higher price range/quality while keeping within your budget.

 

[Jim Lad]

Welcome aboard!
Always nice to meet a stand alone user.
My local shop "Tom Lee Music" has a mat on the floor to mark where you stand and you can listen to a dozen or so, different monitors from that point.
You can always take your favourite album and have it played back.
Keep in mind though that what you are listening for is accuracy.
You may also want to drop in on this forum... http://www.studiotrax.net/forums/index.php
Ray C introduced me to this one here. I enjoy both.

 

[Mikeyprs]

Hey guys

Thanks for all the input, it is always much appreciated

now I have a clearer idea of what I will be looking for in a set of studio monitors I can now start to save up and shop around for what I want.

Jim Lad,

If only the shop was in the uk I would come and check it out with a cd or two to demo some monitors, which kinda sucks because I have no idea if there are any businesses near me that would allow you to demo monitors in such a way.

Again, thanks for all the advice and suggestions posted